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Post by winter on Aug 29, 2011 11:44:19 GMT -8
My father was abusive to me as a child verbally, mentally, sexually, and physically. I believe he was also abusive to my eldest sister which would explain a lot of her actions growing up and to this day. I did tell that sister what he did to me but not in detail just that "things had happened" and she tells me there are years of her child hood she cannot remember and she doesn't want to remember etc. but she knows and hints that its happened to her. I have become closer with this sister and try to talk more often. We were close when I was really young. She was like a second mother to me. Out of all my siblings she is still the only one who would go out of her way to offer real help instead of If I could I would.
I also have two sisters who are twins and a brother. One twin who I was very cool with for a while but wouldn't say close with. We'd hang out a lot but not talk. Now we don't talk at all because of something she has done which will come up in another post. The other I am trying hard not to get annoyed by some of her actions or how she does things and I do see how she has been affected growing up in different ways then I have. She was not abused sexually, not really considered abused physically, but perhaps mentally with out my parents really knowing it. This one sister I have recently told about what has happened to me in the past by my father. My father favors her and would do anything for her. Me or my other sister could ask a small favor and there would be an excuse not to help but she could say she dropped her pen and he would drive an hour to go pick it up. She started telling me how my mom was so wrong growing up and of course I agree to a certain extent but I also get protective because thats all I did growing up was try to protect her. She kept telling me my father was straight out with her and does this and that and etc etc. I got so disturbed by her giving him any kind of positive profile to the point I broke down and told her about what he did to me and I went into detail.
She was a bit shocked but also shared a few things with me that she thought were improper and always made her think odd of him.
Since I have told her she does try to talk to me but she said she took it hard and has been going to therapy herself for other things but now has to deal with this too. Apparently it really upset her. I never told anyone because of the fear of them accusing him or telling other people. Never told my mother because of the fear of it hurting her so bad but I swear she knows.
I am not sure if telling my sister was the right thing of me to do. I know maybe in a way it was a form of protecting her from trusting this monster , but in another way perhaps me wanting to destroy their "good relationship". I feel I have the right to destroy it if she doesn't fully know him but at the same time I feel I don't. I am kind of at loss of what to think....
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Post by happyberry on Aug 29, 2011 12:58:51 GMT -8
this is pretty heavy stuff and way way way out of my league...I don't know your history but this seems like the stuff that needs to be handled by a professional.
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Post by Bo on Aug 29, 2011 14:19:49 GMT -8
Winter, I know that things can get better for you. Especially now that you are no longer the helpless child.
I agree with HB, that consulting a professional would be helpful. Once you heal yourself, you will be able to deal with the others in a more healthy, helpful manner, until then the sickness remains in the cycle.
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Post by winter on Aug 31, 2011 11:49:04 GMT -8
Thanks, I have been in counseling in the past and honestly have never found one who has been able to really help me nor do I have the insurance to go find another or good one. I really need a good psychotherapy and know this but they are hard to find and pretty darn expensive.
I know no one is right or wrong here but I would love to hear opinions in general. Perhaps how you would react.
I believe I have grown and have healed a lot until recently I was set back and then telling my sister on top of this kinda set me back and brought up old emotions.
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Post by veronica on Aug 31, 2011 21:13:50 GMT -8
Hi Winter,
Health and healing don't require money. That's one of the main values of a 12 step program, to seek out peers and sponsors that can help you. But either way healing and health are going to take *a lot* of work on your part, and you can't buy that even if you had the money. Are you up for it? If so, you'll be fine! And I'd bet money that as you recover you'll find your financial circumstances will improve too.
I can speak to family dynamics and truth telling. I'm worried about you and want you to be safe. Why do you want to tell them? What are you hoping their reaction will be? Important to understand that. Because if you see you're not getting what you hope for you need to stop and respect where they are. You're family, but you're all different people with varying strengths and weaknesses. They may not have the inner strength you do to grow past this, and they may not even want to. So it's important to realize their needs and your needs are not the same. And proceed accordingly with them. Respect their capabilities and limitations.
You can do a lot to protect yourself and you need to as you begin your journey. Your experience is explosive to your family. It's not just your history, it's theirs too. It will force them to reexamine their relationships too in an extremely negative light. Some might be relieved to find someone else to talk with. Some may find it easier to make you the problem and shut you down or out.
You want to focus on your health and recovery, not theirs. You want support. You could get just the opposite from them by trying to make them that support.
I have the constitution of a truth teller. I'm part of a personality type that is about 5% of the general population like that, it was such a relief to realize I have a tribe, we're just a small one! It's far easier for me to detach myself and become an observer than most people. I'm really good at identifying and solving problems. The problem was as I identify problems I sound rude and complaining, and people get sick of that fast. I'm learning still to manage that and respect how it is for other people when I'm in research and analysis mode.
In recovery at first it's easy to be a stream of bad news too.
I was the first person to point out my dad is an alcoholic. I was 13. I checked out the Big Book and put it on the coffee table for him and everyone to see. No one said a word. The combination of my truth telling and insisting the rest of the family 'get it' and agree with me made me a classic scapegoat and I was subjected to their ridicule and hostility. They wanted me to shut up. I wanted them to change. It was completely arrogant and disrespectful on both sides.
To make a very long story short, I do not speak with most of my family now and I've never been so happy in my life, I wish I had done it decades ago. Our values are completely different and they're pretty hostile people to each other, it's part of our family tribal rules to be harsh, it's supposed to make us stronger. But I think it does the opposite. This may not be your family at all. My point is that this may be a time when you not only heal from your parent's actions (and inaction) but when you do critical differentiation that may not have happened as a teen. And that's hard stuff for everyone. You could very well feel more alone. It's possible once you get through that though it's possible to be closer with them.
Have you ever taken a Meyers-Briggs personality test? Highly recommend them. You can take them for free on the internet. Also check out the classic family roles that addicted families tend to play out (hero, scapegoat, invisible child, etc).
Keep on coming back here and posting and reading. Read the books. Find a local group ASAP. S-Anon, LAA, SLAA. I'm going to guess there are actually free counseling services you may not be aware of too in your area. But the important thing is reaching out and building your recovery community. Here and in real life.
You are a loved and lovable being in God's eyes in my book. If you're not spiritually inclined just know you have a place in this world as important as anyone else's. Your recovery can be a big part of your place and contribution, in addition to the myriad of things you already provide (and may not even be aware).
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 1, 2011 10:21:00 GMT -8
I feel I have the right to destroy it if she doesn't fully know him but at the same time I feel I don't. I am kind of at loss of what to think.... You don't have a right to destroy anything. Period. And if she was not abused by him that's a GOOD thing. People are different with different people. He may have made amends or chosen not to abuse her. My father abused me. But not my brothers. I do not blame them. Nor did I ever keep them from having a relationship with him. We all knew his illness and his limitations and in that sense, I felt supported. I also never told my brothers that I was abused. I don't quite understand the whole talking about it movement, and getting it out into the open. You can work through your shame and remove your pain all by yourself. You certainly don't need to drag anyone into the muck with you, nor do you need to "punish" the abuser. The abuser is punished by virtue of his crime. He lives with his sickness ever day. Even if, like my dad, he's a narcissist and doesn't think he did anything wrong, he still inherently deals with self-hatred on such a profound level that I end up feeling sorry for him and people like him. My point is, your relationships w/ your family cannot heal or become stronger by making confessions like this. You may be using past scenarios of abuse so that others feel sorry for you. That would be manipulation on your part. Rise above this. Like the others said, talk to a therapist. You deserve to make peace with this part of your past, but your family, especially if they did not experience the same as you, may not be the one to give you the support you need. Try to forge a closeness with them on the basis of other things, like positive common interests. |
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Post by winter on Sept 1, 2011 11:59:42 GMT -8
Veronica... Thank you and you are right money doesn't buy anything and I have gotten this far with out it. Money could have never bought the things I learned going to SLAA or sharing experiences with others who are in recovery as opposed to someone who gets payed because they passed an exam and got a license, although I will look into free counseling I suppose it couldn't hurt. I am not sure where to find a sponsor anymore and those who I have found seemed a bit too in their own mess. I am going to talk to my husband about going back to meetings. I'm just not sure how he will handle me telling him I go with out him and he isn't invited. Not sure it is a good idea for him to go?
I do not speak with most of my family except hi and byes and facebook but usually see most of them on holidays. When I wasn't going to go last year on X mas I was guilted into it by both my sister and my mother. I have recently stopped any attempt to befriend my brother as he just doesn't understand me or want to. He has his own issues and shows no interest in actually being a friend. I have learned to eliminate those people. No company is better then bad company be it family or not.
I have not taken that test but will do so now.
Lovely...
You are right I do not have the right to destroy anything. I am not sure if that was my reasoning though which is what I am confused with.I guess in a way it was..I know she wants friendship from me and has hinted about it and has talked about family for so long and with holding this info hasn't been easy. I just talked to my other sister about these feelings. I feel very guilty for telling her. I feel like I have taken something away from her. I didn't do it to hurt her but she came to me talking about my father I didn't go to her. She just kept going on and on and on and I tried to hint at her to stop etc. I just couldn't handle it. I didn't tell her straight out at first. I told her there are things she doesn't know about him. She actually asked me straight out if it was that and its when I said **** it and told her and let everything out. I do feel guilty though and perhaps an apology is in need. I didn't do it to get sympathy. In fact in an email I told her I was ok now and I have told other people and have been getting help in different places for years. I guess my main concern was she wasn't seeing the inappropriate actions he was doing to her. Their relationship was not healthy so I don't feel like I ruined something that good but I feel like I ruined her false idea of him. He's been lying to her about many things and when she mentioned them it just kept building up. He touches her in appropriately in front of people and she is so used to it she didn't realize it. I pointed it out to her and told her that his actions around her made me very uncomfortable and I wasn't the only one. No one has said anything because no one wants to hurt her or deal with my father who is insane and impossible. He hasn't made amends with anything. He is still abusive mentally and emotionally. He has done things to my nieces I recently just found out about. I don't see it as punishing my father but I supposed in a way it is.
My oldest sister who I have a decent relationship with told me my sister came to her and told her that she's having issues with dadthat she doesn't agree with the conditional love that he puts out and that shes sorry that she's been on the other side of that, but she sees it now and its obvious and not right and that she cant keep quiet anymore and to expect a huge falling out with my dad in the next few months. I am a bit nervous about this and feel its my fault. I know its my fault. I wasn't wanting her to have a huge falling out but I do know she goes to therapy and hopefully they will talk. I do fear him hurting her though and feel I need to tell her.
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Sept 1, 2011 14:51:27 GMT -8
Winter, I'd like to give you some advice since you ask for it, although I find it hard to stay focused on your long story about the other people in your family, and I understand that you are trying to work out what to do. But I can't possibly know or put myself in anyone situation like it sounds like you are hoping someone can. You are dealing with something that certainly does take therapy to deal with in my opinion, and that's echoed here by other members. What I can more easily relate to is posts that talk about how you feel. And what you are struggling with, or empowered by...things about you. It's part of Love addiction and codependency to hide in other people's lives and issues.
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Post by winter on Sept 2, 2011 9:50:07 GMT -8
I'm not understanding how I am hiding in anyone's life and issues nor do I feel I am codependent. When I am around her or family it affects my life. Thats a feeling . I am not going into her life or into her problems, I told her what happened to ME and how his actions to her are wrong and making ME feel uncomfortable when I am around. I'm not looking to solve her problems as I said she goes to therapy hopefully they will talk. However it did come up and I felt guilty about MY actions. How is that codependent?
On another note....
I emailed her apologizing and why. She wrote me back and thanked me but told me she felt trapped by him and actually me telling her was a blessing in disguise. So I do feel better however it doesn't make my actions ok and again I let her know.
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 2, 2011 12:35:06 GMT -8
Not sure it's codependent, but you did say you wanted to "warn" her about your father. Maybe this is more manipulation than codependency.
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Sept 2, 2011 13:01:04 GMT -8
I see LA and codependency as variations on a theme, I don't separate them. Your definition may be different to mine. I'm talking about when a person talks about other people and what they might feel and what they do, and try to work them out rather than look at their own feelings and stay with themselves. You post comes across to me like that.
You don't have to agree.
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Post by winter on Sept 7, 2011 10:47:59 GMT -8
Jacarandgirl not sure I really get what you mean... Sorry
My sister asks why it was wrong of me to tell her. I explained as best I could. However she asked me "But how can someone in your position have a relationship with their siblings when we don't know this? Ya know? "
I explained its not about being siblings but friends which is why I felt I could trust to tell her, but I am not sure how to answer that question. I'd like to have a good relationship with her and she would like one with me. How is it possible to do this if we keep things as such from each other? I understand I shouldn't have said anything if my intentions were bad but I am not sure if they were or not. Its a mix of emotions... can anyone chime in?
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 8, 2011 4:41:11 GMT -8
It is true that deep intimacy with any person is based on honesty and trust, and being open about that which is a part of who you are. Perhaps it wasn't initially necessary for you to tell her this truth about your past, but now that it is out in the open and she is seemingly empathetic to your suffering, it may be an important topic to share with her.
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Sept 8, 2011 6:02:58 GMT -8
Sorry Winter, I can't explain it any better. For me your story is just a bit too complex about other people and removed from what you feel about something, a problem, that I can easily respond to. But that's just me, other people obviously can follow what you're talking about quite well.
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Post by smbeets on Sept 8, 2011 6:14:19 GMT -8
You need more help, not from your family either. They are effected too. We can not treat the illness with the illness! What ever you are willing to do to be well will be helpful. Meetings are free.
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Post by winter on Sept 13, 2011 12:43:10 GMT -8
I'm not looking for help from my family? I am attempting to have a decent healqthy relationship with my one sister who I see more as a friend now though. I'm not understanding someone of the responses here.
Treating the illness with another illness? !&^#@!&#%!^ I DON'T UNDERSTAND???
I have talked it out with my sister. Her therapist and her talked and her therapist agreed I SHOULD have indeed told her. Now I see it from BOTH the therapists view and from the views of those here. The therapist only knows of me what my sister tells her of me and honestly my sister doesn't know a lot but she is beginning to. The therapists doesn't see it as me going out of my way to intentionally damage a relationship but to make a new one and be honest and tell someone.
You guys saw it as me going out of my way to destroy a relationship which I agree, and its because I admitted freely that I felt they shouldn't have one. Was it to destroy their relationship? In a way I think it was and you're right I have no right to destroy a relationship... or do I? If I know that this relationship could possibly cause harm to someone do I stay quiet? I didn't go and destroy the relationship personally I simply made her aware of him and now its up to her.
She has gone out of her way to talk more to my other sister as well who she doesn't talk to as much and see things from her perspective. I truly feel like this has been an eye opening experience for her and she is suddenly awake and things are starting to makes sense for her now. I think this has been a good thing. She promised me she wouldn't tell him what I told her because she knows now that the possibility of him retaliating on me or anyone in general is strong. She is taking her own measures to talk to him about things she personally is not ok with between THEM.
As for myself, I do intend to go back to meetings but I've been going through some rough times here ( nothing to do with LA or the like) and trying to deal with them accordingly. I'm also still seeking free psychotherapy but have yet to find it.
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Post by bklynrn on Sept 13, 2011 13:57:01 GMT -8
Winter....there is NOTHING at all wrong with telling anyone in your family about what happened to you...PERIOD. You did not have a voice when you were a child but you DO have one now and it's your voice, your reality and the TRUTH. I feel the pain you're feeling and conflict you're feeling in revealing the truth...that is a normal response after revealing the truth of your past. I would bet you stuffed all of that abuse away and probably ''protected'' others from hearing about that abuse . That does not help YOU at all. Here's a awesome book that you will get something from ..I found it very useful in revealing the truth and lies of my past parental and sexual abuse.....Free From Lies by Alice Miller.
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Post by veronica on Sept 13, 2011 22:07:45 GMT -8
For me I wanted my family to join me on my journey and I began to do things that felt very loving but created resistance. Not sure if that's where you're at, you want a specific type of reaction from a sister, right? That's the beginning on the Road to Heck for most of us.
Can she give you what you're hoping for without any action or intervention on your part to achieve that? Then that's healthy!
The important thing is for you to focus on your health, your feelings, your nurturing, on your beliefs and needs. It's like what they used to say in airplanes. If you're traveling with a child and there is an incident, put the oxygen mask on your face first. We're no real help until we have rescued ourselves.
As LA's we're very involved in saving others or changing them, etc. It's not generally something we're very skilled at actually knowing where our boundaries are and theres are so often we project and attempt to get them to do things that aren't appropriate for them and maybe we really need to do for ourselves. I agree, it's totally confusing to try and get a particular result from others! Especially family, in my book anyway.
There are lots of books mentioned on the Board that speak in more detail to a lot of abstract those in recovery talk about. And they really do require a personal journey to get to. The library is free to start.
Hope that helps. Keep on talking even if we don't get it. It will come through eventually!
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 14, 2011 5:45:21 GMT -8
I think there is a language barrier here. Our messages can be easily misconstrued when typing in a forum. Take everything you read with a grain of salt. And only take advice that sounds "right" to you. Ultimately you are the decider. You are the doer. No one else. You need to follow what you think is the right thing to do.
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Post by winter on Sept 14, 2011 11:03:06 GMT -8
Don't get me wrong I appreciate everyone's input, opinions and sharing their stories. I do and wish to keep hearing more! Its just that some I feel don't actually read what the initial question or issue was and post something that has absolutely nothing to do with the situation or post in general. Maybe its to make them self feel better or maybe they are even talking to themselves and if thats the case I truly hope it helps and they read their own advice. I am very open minded and able to take constructive criticism. However when we are talking about Apples and someone tells me about a grapefruit I am not sure what they even mean or if they are even replying to me or they posted in the wrong thread.
I wasn't looking for any specific reaction from my sister. What she does is her decision and I respect it. I came here because I felt guilty and wrong for telling her. I couldn't understand if I was wrong for telling her because I didn't like that she had a relationship with someone so harmful as him , because I was being protective, or because I trusted her enough to tell her and I did want a relationship with her and felt it was important she knew about it. It was all of the above and I do need to watch my actions more carefully however I am ok with what I told her now because the good out weighed the bad and it was something she needed to hear and something I needed to get off my chest after 32 years. If not to protect herself, if not to clear her own mind and become aware, then to let her know I am ready to have a relationship with her and this is me and this is what happened to me.
I am not relying on her and if she chooses she cannot deal with it or doesn't want to talk then I respect that. We talk in emails once or twice a week or on facebook now. More then we have before. I am happy with it and comfortable with it. I'm not looking to rush into a relationship with her but to take the time and talk to her and get to really know each other with out judgement.
I've held back these feelings and telling anyone for soooo long. Its taken me 32 years to tell my sister because I felt I needed to protect her from knowing and being hurt by it, which turned into me telling her to make her aware and me being tired of protecting everyone all the time instead of helping myself. Me not telling anyone has indeed done a lot of harm not only to me but kept others suffering from something similar in my family that did not have the strength or awareness to come out with it or talk to anyone about it until I did.
My other sister also felt guilt for letting me know and understood the guilt I felt when telling my sister.
I still need work on many things, still need meetings, still need this board and probably will until the day I die. I don't want anyone to think that I think differently. I still battle more then one disease daily. Sometimes we just need reassurance or those to tell us yo are not wrong for doing this, or to push us in the right direction. I appreciate all of you!!
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