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Post by bklynrn on Jan 16, 2012 4:27:37 GMT -8
The topic of God is an issue I battled with for a while. As I write this out forgive me if it's all over the place cause I need to write it as I feel it rather than focus on trying to make this neat and perfect...my perfectionism takes away from my authenticity... I was baptized Catholic so naturally i was conditioned to believe God is a patriarchal(father/Man) figure and because I never grew past what I learned in grade school about my religion I was stuck with very limited knowledge about my religion and even the possibilty of something other than Christianity. I can say now, that I was Spiritually Immature on many many levels. I also had issues with the God I was conditioned to believe in. With that said, I was very against the use of God at meetings and even the use of Higher power. My arrogance told me I'm my own higher power and don't want or need to rely on anything else..last year I would readily tell people I was Agnostic and say it with ANGER. Eff your God is how I felt. I was angry at God for a long time. Though now I see I needed to be angry, needed to be doubtful and needed to process and work through my spiritual immaturity. I needed to feel what I felt for as long as it took. As a Catholic we were conditioned to pray...pray for this or that...If you wanted something.. pray to God for the outcomes. Right? So as a child I prayed and prayed my dad would get better and not be sick. I prayed to God to make my mother a better mother and prayed to God to make my mom love me. I prayed for all kinds of things....I prayed and prayed but nothing changed. I thought somehow that I was a bad child, a sinner because my cousin violated my body and God knew it so I was all BAD and getting nothing because of that. I see now that was and is a seriously spiritually immature way of thinking. I stayed in that mode for a while but have recently explored areas outside Christianity and explored Buddhism and even Neo-Paganism. From this I see that God or Higher powers need not be a figure of a man. I can embrace the thought of God as a women but i feel most comfortable with the higher power or God simply being all around us. Not as a being of human form. It's here within the earth and all around us and if we pay close attention to the energy we can feel it. It's like a collective energy. My dad died many years ago and though his body is no longer alive I feel his presence. Feeling him again was an awakening for me. I feel a sense of comfort and peace from that. I know now that I can feel and believe in something bigger than myself. I still have to rely on me and stand by my choices in everyday life but when things get tough I rely on meditation and do feel the earth's energy and the energy within myself which allows me to bring forward a new persepective of my enviroment and a renewed sense of inner peace. I'm sure I will continue to grow/mature spiritually but I like this new place. I need this place...Thanks for reading  |
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Post by sunflwrs4evr on Jan 17, 2012 17:28:16 GMT -8
bklynrn..thank you so much for your share....it opened up alot for me reading it.....thanks so much for your honesty....so sorry to hear about your cousin violating your body...and for sharing about your father ...i too am experiencing this with the passing of my mother....and i am now understanding it better from what you have written...i am still in the grieving process.....I do feel her presence with me all the time...i even hear her voice....at this point i am struggling with meditation....I think i am scared to listen to God... I grew up believing that God was a punishing ....and if i did something wrong...that he would punish me.....and coming into the rooms of 12 step programs...surely changed my mind...my hp speaks through me....this was a very enlightening and revealing post...thanks again..Sun |
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Post by margot on Jan 18, 2012 5:09:13 GMT -8
These are all good thoughts, both of you........great topic. Thank you.
I feel in communication with quite a few people who are 'dead'. I enjoy the contact and I feel that they love me and are supportive of me.
Most of the time though, it is the 'entire', the 'all' that I am in contact with, that 'wholeness', that 'everything 'that we call God or HP or many other names. I believe it exists everywhere, within everything and is us...........all of us, meaning all life and meaning that all existence is life. Nothing is dead. Thanks again.
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Post by sunflwrs4evr on Jan 18, 2012 7:40:35 GMT -8
Margot...thanks for your post too...i love how you said it...i feel that way...i feel that we are all connected to one another...that is why for me as spiritual beings it doesnt matter what we look like the color of our skin...we are spiritual beings ...and taking in the human form.....i use to have this saying somewhere...i will have to look for it....and then post it... thank you so much for your post.....for reminding me..."Nothing is dead....meaning all life and meaning that all existence is life". This brings me to alot of peace with me grieving my mother...i have been to many funerals and going to the cemetery to pay my respects...but when it came to my mother...i really have a problem with knowing her body is in the ground..my inner child doesnt like it....and doesnt want her in the ground like that... After reading these posts...its really true that her spirit is all around me ...she is one of my guardian angels...and her spirit had taken form in her body....i am trying to understand this as i write it...All i know is that i feel alot of peace with it all.....Sun |
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Post by Healing Ku'uipo on Jan 18, 2012 8:37:56 GMT -8
I find going into nature and connecting to my higher power in that realm to be the most restorative and it helps me feel connected and clear my head.
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Post by bklynrn on Jan 19, 2012 15:08:06 GMT -8
@sunflwrs...me too. I felt the God I grew up with was a punishing God ,if you're not ''good'' bad things happen...meditation scared me at first too. I had so much chatter in my brain and was very disconnected. I was afraid to let go. Let go of fears, let go and feel safe within my own body and get connected with something greater than me. Connect with my body sensations that I always misinterpreted and didn't understand. Then connect with my father's energy that always resided in me but resisted because I was stuck. I understand the grief you feel about your mom and her physical body is no longer here and grieving that is needed for as long as it takes but It's wonderful that you still feel her presence. Hold on to that feeling. It's a real feeling.
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Post by sunflwrs4evr on Jan 19, 2012 20:11:05 GMT -8
thank you so much bklynrn....i really appreciate your share...I dont think i am scared to do the meditation..i think i am scared to listen to God.....maybe cause i know i am not perfect...i am not sure...i am scared....i think maybe i am scared he will punish me or something... I think maybe i didnt totally and completely let go of all the old thinking.... Yes i too remember connected with alot of negative energy with people...how draining that was...to endure...i was stuck most of my life....and i am not stuck anymore.... thanks and i will hold on to that feeling....I wonder if she really knows Gods truth...now....and that is why she is still hanging around with me.....i am so much like her....thanks again.... Sun |
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Post by bklynrn on Jan 20, 2012 3:04:03 GMT -8
You're very welcome Sun....NOBODY is perfect Sun. I would bet it's your own voice you're afraid to hear. Your internal dialoge .Not what God or a H/P has to say to you... Sometimes we just think too much and try and figure things out that don't need answers. We are accostumed to negative and negative energy. Letting go into a new and positive energy is a brand new experience and does feel uncomfortable at first but it's ok to let go. I keep telling myself that and I usually cry at that point of letting go...all new to me but need this new place.
Want to share something else. I moved into my new apartment 14 months ago and this place became available through a friend. When I came to look, I saw there was a Catholic church right across the street....at first I said...ugh, a church. Had not been in a Church in YEARS!!!. Then for a quick second I said..mmm, maybe this is a good thing. Maybe there's a reason. I took the apartment and for the very first time in my life i began living alone and single . Back track a minute, when I was a kid I lived in a very Catholic neighborhood. Churches everywhere and every Sunday, St. Stephen's church bells rang. Every Sunday the Church played certain songs that rang throughout the neighborhood after 12 noon mass. As a kid, that meant a lot to me...Sunday was always a good day when my dad was alive and well. He always attended Mass and when he was well he took me along with him. Sunday was a day of peace during that time...When I moved here to my new apartment on a Saturday I was a nervous wreck. Being single, living alone, leaving my ex, new to recovery...everything..I questioned everything and hoped this was the right choice.. But then I woke up Sunday morning to the Church bells across the street from me...I INSTANTLY thought about St. Stephen's church bells and the comfort of the Sunday mornings of my past. I can't even begin to tell you the warmth I felt inside at that moment. I was flooded with good thoughts of my dad and the good days of my past but the momemts quickly passed cause my internal dialoge wanted to stay negative and a non-believer. I quickly pushed out the wonderful feelings because of my fear of it. Though I at the same time i felt...mmm...what is this??. one morning during a kinda lucid dream state...it was early morning and I was half awake and half asleep...and I was feeling awful and scared but I heard my dad's voice telling me ''You will be ok''....Again, i felt that warm feeling. I remember wanting to cry and maybe I did...But i needed to let go... let go into something that is real and feels good for once. All of it was telling me something that I can't ignore. Over time I began to simply move into these feelings rather than away from. I really feel I moved to this apartment for a reason. The Church bells ring EVERYDAY at 9am then every hour until 6pm. At noon on Sunday they ring and play songs....just like in my childhood at St. Stephens. It's like i get a reminder of the good from my past in a very direct way. On Sunday when the church bells ring, I close my eyes and I can feel those good moments when I was a kid. I need to embrace the good memories and need to feel the presence of my dad.
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Post by sunflwrs4evr on Jan 20, 2012 21:36:40 GMT -8
bklynrn....wow....thank you so much for sharing your beautiful story with all of us....wow...i can feel it too...just how u described it..so beautiful...as i lay here just feeling those great feelings that u describe....I too love hearing those church bells...I am not sure what they mean to me....i was raised Jewish...but everytime i hear them...i stop what i am doing ...so i can listen closer...and i want to hear every beat and chime of the melody...it just so calms me down... what is coming up for me,..is that your dad is your guardian angel and i believe he brought u to this place...so you both can be at the same place at the same moment at the same time....I hope i dont offend you in any way shape or form....i just wanted to share that....when came to my intuitive knowing...i truly believe that is my God/hp place inside me.... I am very happy that you are feeling that and reliving it all over again.....yes we all need to embrace those awesome moments....and the presence of your dad.... And i think u are absolutely 100 % correct about me not wanting to listen to me....and that is what is going on with the meditation...and i too cry as i let go.....thanks again for your awesome share...Sun |
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Post by bklynrn on Jan 21, 2012 4:39:35 GMT -8
Hi Sunflwrs....I'm happy to hear that my sharing is being heard. That means a lot to me. Were all here to share ourselves and hopefully another person can go within themself and feel something too. Just as you did.It's such an important part of recovery. One important thing I learned in a recent class I took...we touched on gender and religon. All religions, with attention to the organized religions, had it's foundation from another source. Not going to get too detailed about this here but all religions branched off from a place of oneness...with that said,were all the same regardless to religion we were born into and raised to believe in. When I learned that, it inspired me to be open and not think of others as separate because of their religious belief or even non-belief...Hope this doens't sound too preachy for this forum. That's not my intent. I'm just trying to point out something in myself , that for such a very long time I was spiritually immature and staying open minded to learn has allowed me to grow in this area and feel happy.
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Post by happyberry on Jan 21, 2012 20:44:15 GMT -8
I still struggle with what my HP is every day...and I think that is ok. I know it's there and that is all that matters.
Hope to run into you in a meeting soon!
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Post by requin on Apr 22, 2012 13:08:13 GMT -8
Can anyone else share their beliefs in their HP? Is your HP, Jesus, Jehovah, nature, etc?
Because I know I really need faith in something other than myself but I have been angry at God for about 5 years. I was raised a nominal catholic but never went to church. Then in my 20s I became a born-again Christian w/ the help of my to-be husband. While we were together for 11 years I was a christian and we did all the 'right things' and I know he had a good personal relationship w/ God/Jesus but although I tried I never felt it myself.
When we split up because I was bored (my LA was the culprit, but I didn't know that then) I fell off the religion wagon and never went back...but I wasn't angry at god until 5 years ago when my beloved cat was killed about a month after I fervently prayed to god to please not take her, the one thing I most loved in the entire world.
I have not been able to forgive god since and I know that is completely immature and not how we are supposed to converse w/ god. But I cannot get past it! I cannot believe anymore that god has a personal interest in the piddly little pathetic lives of every one of the billions of humans on this planet, myself included.
But I do firmly believe in a creator god!! It is hard to put one's everyday faith in a creator god whom you feel is miles above all the day to day problems of the ants (humans) on this planet. But that is how I see god now.
I want a HP to trust and have faith in so I can learn to let go of my controlling nature and my huge overwhelming distrust and ANGER for just about everything in life.
Thanks.
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Post by Loving My Life on Apr 22, 2012 14:43:19 GMT -8
I was born a christian, and i believe in god, i have not been to church in many many years i guess since my parents passed in the 70's, and I believe this is why im comfortable in AA, it is not pushed down your throat. I know it gives me comfort when iam hurting, and I also know he has done something in my life, because i have not wanted to drink in three years, even through all of this emotional pain with my poa. So whether it is really god, or me, someone is helping me through lifes up and downs now.
If you can believe in god/hp or whatever, just always believe in yourself.
Because my track record is not to go through pain, especially the pain i have been through with my poa, it is too get drunk. and not one time in 28 months, did i ever think about taking a drink. that is a miracle in itself.
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Post by bklynrn on Apr 22, 2012 17:26:32 GMT -8
Requin--sometimes you simply have to stay angry for a while and find what makes you happy. Rather than follow what others think you should be or do. There's nothing wrong with some good freaking anger and exploring other possibilities!!!! Women, especially women from any sort of Christian beliefs, are conditioned to be ''nice''. Anger is not always an acceptable emotion for man or woman in most organized religions....everything is about forgiveness but I feel we need to embrace what is real. If it's anger so be it. If you need to be angry at god--so be it. I felt anger at god and the catholic religion for a LONG TIME. As a kid, I prayed over and over again and felt I got NOTHING. I felt betrayed by God. I remember crying like a child in group therapy when I started talking about being molested and praying for god to save me. I needed God to save me from my mother and make my dad well. Where was God?! This is the God I was taught to believe in. Pray and you receive right? Be Good and you receive..fear, fear,fear for being anything but good but things turn around when you just let go of that concept...let go and feel your feelings, whatever they are, and something may come from that. I don't know what is truly out there but there is something. Something that wakes us up and something that goes beyond coincidence...I'm in my own driver's seat but there is something out there that puts your mind and heart in a new place. With that, you drive at ease and more cautiously |
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Post by lilila on Apr 22, 2012 19:14:08 GMT -8
My experience is completely opposite. I was raised an agnostic and always surrounded by people who didn´t believe in any religion (except maybe my grandmother who was a catholic, though not a very fervent one).
But then, in difficult times, I felt my (deceased) grandfather was by my side. I can´t really explain it, it was like he was taking care of me. He was an extremely loving, kind and strong man. My mother and favorite aunt had the same experience. So while we were all from an agnostic family, we felt there was something more out there.
Some years ago I had very strange experiences during hypnosis - a series of completely unexpected regressions - that made me open my eyes spiritually, so to say.
I can´t say what I believe in now, I don´t follow any specific church. But my idea is that if you ask for help, you will receive it (though perhaps not in the way you would want). That has also been my experience with my LA. I mean, praying and asking for help didn´t make my poa become the person I was hoping for, but it did give me the tools to get over him and start healing from the LA.
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Post by luvmyself2 on Apr 23, 2012 19:28:12 GMT -8
Even though I have a relationship with Jesus now, there are certain interpretations of things in the Bible that I'll never be able to agree with, because I believe things need to be interpreted in the context of the time/age/place/culture in which the Bible was written. So, I guess I'll just never be a fundamentalist, and that's alright by me. I love the Holy Trinity just the same. This morning I was in a bad depression, and almost emailed my ex before I was barely awake -- but something lifted me up out of it and today has been a really productive, peaceful day. I have no doubt that the Holy Spirit came to uplift me early this morning. I had even made a long, miserable post in this forum, but deleted it soon after and everything changed since then. There is no doubt that giving my life over to my Higher Power really works when I keep making the daily choice to do that. |
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Post by bklynrn on Apr 24, 2012 2:59:54 GMT -8
''there are certain interpretations of things in the Bible that I'll never be able to agree with, because I believe things need to be interpreted in the context of the time/age/place/culture in which the Bible was written''
I'm 100% with you on this Luv...100%. This is so very true!!! I'm glad you brought this to our attention. This is the exact point I had argued with a friend of mine...he's a Priest but leaving the order...lol I know I will never follow any organized religion but simply being at peace with life and allowing certain negative energies to be turned over to something else is freeing
I'm glad you're feeling better Luv. For me, the writting is VERY cathartic. I get it all out then save it but DO NOT send it. I leave the emails for me to process later on.
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Post by requin on Apr 24, 2012 6:17:46 GMT -8
I agree w/ bklynrn. I didn't want to revive this thread to become a preach session. I just wanted to hear how others interpret their HP.
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Post by luvmyself2 on Apr 24, 2012 7:44:26 GMT -8
Thanks bklynrm, I'm glad I'm not alone in this because I never fit in anywhere completely with my free thinking that God blessed me with. But then again, Jesus didn't fit in too well either. |
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Post by bklynrn on Apr 24, 2012 9:52:37 GMT -8
No, Luv...express yourself just as your doing. I have not found anything preachy in what you talk about. I also appreciate the responses from you Spirit...all I'm asking is for it to be less preachy...that's all. Were all here to learn and grow but when we start getting all preachy and almost judgmental then the intended message is lost and losses it's value
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Post by Loving My Life on Apr 24, 2012 10:13:49 GMT -8
do we need to lock this thread?
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Post by bklynrn on Apr 24, 2012 10:25:41 GMT -8
I don't think so Carolyn..I think we all need to be aware of Proselytizing.
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Post by LovelyJune on Apr 26, 2012 3:49:30 GMT -8
I know I'm coming in rather late on this. But...No proselytizing! Everyone here already knows the rules! I see someone deleted the judgmental, preachy stuff and that will continue to happen if there is preaching. Here's a little help on this matter: if I love cheese and Jane loves cheese and we think it's the best stuff ever, that's OK. We can certainly say that, for US, it's the best stuff ever. But to believe it's the best stuff for EVERYONE is an egocentric, self-centered, narcissistic approach to the way things work. Cheese isn't for everyone. SOme people are allergic to dairy. SOme people simply don't like the taste. Others believe it should not be eaten (Vegan). My point is, "Jesus" isn't for everyone. Many of us have already explored the idea of Christianity and have chosen something else. Others have entirely different beliefs. And to assume that there is a one-size fits all solution to religion (and that one religion suits everyone on the planet) is narrow-minded and misguided. More than half the population of this world believe in something other than Christianity. You'd think with 2 thousand years of preaching it everyone would be convinced that it is the way, but it is not. There are other ways and we ALL need to be respectful of this. I know that the whole point of Christianity is to believe that there is only one true God, and to spread the word. But not here. Not on my watch (even though I fell asleep during my watch!)  |
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Post by overcomer on Apr 26, 2012 4:32:38 GMT -8
Initially I didn't want to post here but I cannot deny my Savior Jesus and I don't want to pretend either. It's ME who shared my belief in my HP Jesus in response to Requin's Q. But I voluntarily deleted it as soon as it wasn't taken well.
You are intelligent LJ. You said it right that we are commanded to spread the Word as our great commission. However I respect the rules here and don't want to repeat a mistake so I dropped the matter right away.
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Post by luvmyself2 on Apr 26, 2012 4:42:54 GMT -8
I think it's possible to spread one's faith in Christ by living example, without always mentioning the specific form of faith. As someone who was not Christian and then became Christian, I can say with great experience that people who are not Christian cannot stand to hear proselytizing. It actually doesn't work and has the opposite intended impact (people running away from it in droves). I believe that Christians often take what's commanded a bit too literally and it's not Jesus who is the problem with this, but his followers who don't know how to properly interpret the way to spread the truth. God speaks to me that I will speak my truth by living example, that is, if I am truly changed as a person, it will show in how I think, feel and live, and I will not even have a need to shove Jesus down people's throats because they will see the change in me and just wonder how it happened and they'll want what I have, and I'll share it -- but I don't ever intend to force it on others because we've all been given free will and we have to respect the free will in others, and there are ways to share our faith without crossing those boundaries IMO. I realize there is a big problem with the codependent nature of the "religious" aspect of Christianity which is what turns many people off. This is why many emphasize the importance of the relationship with Jesus rather than the religion which misinterpets and oversteps bounds repeatedly (and why? because religion is run by sinners/human beings). That's my two cents |
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Post by overcomer on Apr 26, 2012 4:58:18 GMT -8
Luv, if that's how your HP is leading you bless your heart. But I have to follow His Word and how He leads me too because at the end of the day it's God Whom I will face. This is my last reply here and will just pray more. "I cannot but God can."
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Post by LovelyJune on Apr 26, 2012 14:44:58 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing your opinions! I think we've hashed it out enough. This was BK's original post and we kinda got a little off topic, so I'm locking the thread. If you'd like to discuss further you can PM each other. |
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