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Pagan?
Nov 10, 2007 23:37:59 GMT -8
Post by greengirl on Nov 10, 2007 23:37:59 GMT -8
Mostly just curious if there are any other Pagans here, besides me.
My own personal view on religion/spirituality is that your relationship with deity is extremely personal; meaning that the way I experience deity is not necessarily the way anyone else experiences deity, and that's to be expected, because I'm not exactly like anyone else. Also: if it works for you, it works.
Thus, I'm really just curious. (My ex (alcoholic, now in AA) was Pagan when I meet him, but when he started his recovery, he went back to his Catholic roots, and even though he told me about fellow AAs who were Pagan, I think his switch sorta turned me off for a while, because I do feel honestly scarred from my parents' religion.) Also, I'd love to chat with Pagan Love Addicts ...
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Pagan?
Nov 10, 2007 23:53:14 GMT -8
Post by Susan Peabody on Nov 10, 2007 23:53:14 GMT -8
It might help us if you define what you mean by pagan.
We are a spiritual program, but you can take what you want and leave the rest. We believe that we cannot get well alone, that we need some kind of spiritual aid beyond our own will power. How you define that spiritual power is up to you. We are definitely not a religious program.
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Pagan?
Nov 11, 2007 5:40:43 GMT -8
Post by rosemay on Nov 11, 2007 5:40:43 GMT -8
Dear greengirl:
When I first entered a 12-step program several years ago, my life was unmanageable, as they say. I was in a very deep crisis and I really needed some help and understanding. I would have considered myself pagan at the time. I was attracted to "earth-centered spirituality" both Wicca and Native American. I rejected anything to do with Christianity and didn't like the word God, it offended me.
I thought I was a very tolerant person, because I tolerated all klinds of lifestyle choices and all kinds of different spiritual paths that people chose, but I was extremely intolerant of Christians.
To make a long story short, I had a pretty dramatic conversion expereince, basically an encounter with Jesus at a time of very extreme and deep crisis. This experience caused me to have to re-think my whole life.
One of the biggest areas that was affected was my sense of morality. I basically had no rules, if it feels good, do it. follow your heart, follow your bliss, follow your dreams.
Well, as an older woman looking back at all the wreckage of my life caused by bad choices, choices based on feelings, espeically "love" (my biggest undoing) I found myself embracing a moral code that came with this new spirituality. For me it has been the guidance I never had as a child, and I have found so many incredible teachings that help to guide me to a decent life and help me make healthy choices.
In my many, many years as a "pagan", I never had people that taught me the basics, guided me morally or gave me a solid set of rules to operate from. In fact, I never really had a "teacher" at all. Just other people with similar interests. It tended to be more about elaborate ceremony, cool feathers and beads. My ex-husband was a Sundancer, so trust me I know a lot about it.
I am not trying to preach or anything, but just suggesting that being more open might help you, especially since it;s preventing you from going to the Roots of Grace 12-step meeting where you might actually get some help. You sound so isolated and alone in this. It sounds like it's preventing you from other sources of help, and cost you a relationship that may have been for your good. Please reach out.
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Pagan?
Nov 11, 2007 5:50:54 GMT -8
Post by Rainbows Always on Nov 11, 2007 5:50:54 GMT -8
Yes.welcome. please do tell us what "pagan" means. shazXX
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nessa
New Member
Posts: 3
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Post by nessa on Nov 11, 2007 6:42:12 GMT -8
ChazfromOz by definition a pagan is One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially an adherent of a polytheistic religion in antiquity. A Neo-Pagan. Offensive: One who has no religion. A non-Christian. A hedonist.
I have never called myself pagan but I have definately lived as what "Church-folk" would consider heathanistically. I lived with few rules as Rosemay did and still have the proof of that destructive behavior. Without rules, guidance, boundaries we are all destined for destruction in some form or another.
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Post by greengirl on Nov 11, 2007 9:30:46 GMT -8
I am aware that the 12-step programs have a spiritual base, and are not religious in nature. I very much like the 3rd-step "God as we understood God". I am also not intolerant of Christianity. Christ is pretty cool. (He's basically a dying-and-rising-god.) He says some neat things in that book of his. Pretty much everything he didn't say, however, I have a tendency to throw out. (I tend to ignore the Old Testament and the New Testament after the Gospels.) However, I really feel a need for connection with deity that has a female face. My particular brand of Christianity growing up (Mormonism/LDS, if that means anything to you) lacks female role-models even more than regular Christianity (aka Catholicism, because I don't know that much about Protestant Christianity). Mother Mary and Mary Magdalene are swept aside, mentioned only occasionally, and even though actual Mormons will tell you there is a Mother Goddess, etc., etc. (they get really pissy when you explain to them that you need feminine deity), they pretty much flat-out ignore Her. By Pagan, I do generally mean Neo-Pagan, Wicca, Druidry, Asatru, Native American spirituality, eclectic earth-centered spirituality. Also (as in Druidry, Asatru, Stregoneria/Stregheria, and others), worshiping the god(s) of pre-Christian cultures (the Celts, the Norsemen, the pre-Christian Romans, who were actually pretty cool). I include both polytheism (belief in and worship of more than one god-form) and henotheism (belief in more than one god, but worship of a single god, like the temple priestesses of Aphrodite, who believed the other gods existed, but only worshiped Aphrodite). I include pantheism (the equation of God with Nature), panentheism (the belief that God is both immanent and transcendent), and animism (the attribution of conscious life to objects in and phenomena of nature or to inanimate objects, according to Merriam-Webster). World Religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) don't really count, if only because I'm pretty sure adherents would object to being labeled Pagans. However, while it is easy to do in a spiritual path that refuses to dictate morality to you, I do not consider Paganism to be without rules/guidance/boundaries. It can be used that way, the same way Christians can use their religion to start wars. I have had a teacher (in Druidry), who taught me that Honor and personal responsibility were pretty much the most important virtues. Good Pagan books are all about personal responsibility. It is my understanding that Paganism requires you to write your own moral code, to set your own boundaries. (If you choose not to, it's your choice.) A bit off-topic, but ... rosemay: about the Rooted in Grace 12-step group. I just looked them up again, and I was mistaken. There are three SLAA groups in my area (actually, because I'm living with my parents right now, none of them are really in my area, they're all about 45-min. away--for those who know anything about Utah, I'm living, currently, near Provo, and these meetings are in Salt Lake). One is on Sundays and is called Sunday Solution Seekers. One is on Mondays and is a Women-Only Group. The third is on Tuesdays and is the Rooted in Grace meeting. The meeting I'd feel most comfortable attending as my first meeting ever would be the Women-Only Group, simply because it is an SLAA group, and I'd worry (in a group with men) that I'd be the only woman or the only Love Addict (and not Sex Addict) in the group. Anyway, if what I mean by Pagan is still not clear, please let me know, I'll try to rectify that.
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Pagan?
Nov 11, 2007 15:02:39 GMT -8
Post by Susan Peabody on Nov 11, 2007 15:02:39 GMT -8
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Post by Rainbows Always on Nov 12, 2007 6:08:00 GMT -8
Wow greengirl. that certainly was an education for me. i hadnt heard of half the things you mentioned. Very interesting, I must say. To me I just believe in a HIgher Power, a universal power. A power greater than myself. It is all loving
i dont know what it is. Who it is? Whether its male/female? I just see it as "universal energy"
For yrs i was agnostic then aethiest, now Im not sure. I am definetly not religious (dont go to any church, dont read the bible)
All I know is that to start the steps I had to have an OPEN MIND. (i was an aethiest when I started.) Now I truly believe in a Higher power. I have faith that my HP has a plan for me and on most days (99%) I have faith that "God's will be done". The God "of my understanding' .It took me about 1 year to even say the word "god"!!
Thats where i am at right now. sometimes I feel intuitively conected to my Hp other times I doubt there is one.
Im very good at intellectualizing stuff. this program has taught me how to stop questioning and just have faith. At times I had to pray for the willingness to believe in anything. And I had never prayed before!!
it seems to have worked for me. shazXX
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aj
Full Member
 
Posts: 116
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Post by aj on Nov 13, 2007 20:18:47 GMT -8
My concept of a higher power has changed over time. Originally it was more of a universal spirit of nature because I felt truly at peace in nature. I call my higher power my God. I could call it my deity, my shoelace... it makes no difference to me. I choose to say "he" because "it" seems impersonal to me. I could say 'she" because again, it makes no difference. By any name, my God is the power that saved my a**from alcoholism 6yrs ago and now is taking me through this.
This power greater than myself is the guiding force of my life and will show himself to me in a way that I understand. He also continues to guide me in ways that I understand. I don't have a name for my religion like Catholic or Pagan or Mormon. I guess I don't have a religion. Yet, I am comfortable in any of these places as well as in the forest because the God that is always with me, is the one that I communicate with wherever I am.
I have no desire to change another's belief nor will I let anyone change mine. The God of my Understanding reveals more of himself as time goes on and will guide me to all that I need to know. If I read spiritual material that is touching my heart I continue to read it. If it hurts my head or seems confusing I let it go.
Welcome to LAA AJ
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aj
Full Member
 
Posts: 116
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Pagan?
Nov 13, 2007 20:38:34 GMT -8
Post by aj on Nov 13, 2007 20:38:34 GMT -8
It is not that unusual for society to leave out strong women role models. I really don't think it's just a religious thing. Exploring history further than the books I was educated with I managed to find a woman Pharaoh and many women warriors. I wasn't looking that hard, just at different sources. Hopefully this has improved with women becoming more independent and the strong women of today won't be forgotten in the future.
You wrote about being able to set your own boundaries and determine your own morals. We all do that. What I'm wondering is; if you are happy with how your life is going and the boundaries you are setting then what brought you to LAA? What do you hope to achieve here?
AJ
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Pagan?
Nov 14, 2007 15:15:54 GMT -8
Post by rosemay on Nov 14, 2007 15:15:54 GMT -8
This is exactly where I had the most trouble with "paganism", even though I couldn't see it until after my major spiritual awakening.
I need a clear set of rules and laws to follow, especially around sexuality because I made a huge mess of my life, hurt a lot of people and myself by making up my own morality and writing my own moral code.
The "pagan" teachings were just too vague for me in this realm. I need some rock solid commandments to operate from, and it has made all the difference for me. When I get confused or have big life decisions to make, I feel like I have some good guidance and clear teachings to help me.
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daisy
New Member
Posts: 19
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Post by daisy on Dec 30, 2007 14:43:35 GMT -8
There is no right or wrong in this. You can find your HP in your heart. it's whatever works for you period. we're individuals, like snowflakes, we are all unique, therefore, your HP will be unique for you and what YOU need.
Just for me, I choose a Male God as my HP, because it represents the loving, caring, unconditional love that comes from a birth father. I do that because that's what I need to feel.
I do the same with Mary, she is the Mother I never had, I pray to her also. She is also equal to God in my opinion. They are my parents. that helps ME.
I also just steal from other beliefs too. I don't believe personally any one belief system has a monopoly on the universe. We're all just guessing. it's dangerous to become too rigid. it can harm other people. we have free will. that is universally given.
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Post by oakling on Apr 9, 2010 20:43:33 GMT -8
I "grew up Pagan". I was raised a lapsed Catholic - my parents never talked about religion or spirituality, but dragged us to church every Christmas and Easter until they thought we were old enough (or they got tired enough of the kicking and screaming) to decide for ourselves whether to go. So I didn't have any ideas to overcome really. When I was 14, a friend I met online - who was roughly my parents' age - told me that she was "a witch", and then explained Wicca and Paganism to me when I asked. I hunted down a book about it in a local women's bookstore and immediately felt that I had come home. I was very feminist and nature-oriented, always talked to trees, and had always been interested in anything that sounded like magic, so it was perfect for me!
I was lucky to have an active Pagan community to jump into where I grew up; I could go to open circles and even take "Witchcraft 101" classes at the Experimental College. I was also lucky that my parents let me. My father insisted at first that I was getting into Satanism (his mother is a right-wing fundamentalist who thinks everything is Satanism, and I think some of that passed on to him), but I showed him a stack of emails I had printed out to read from a Pagan listserv and he figured it out. Fortunately. Not that I wouldn't have just lied and snuck around behind their backs if they had said no - but I didn't need any more guilt, lying, sneaking, and fear.
I lost touch with my spiritual community when I moved away to college; I didn't like the celebrations and groups that were available to me where I moved, and I was busy losing myself (literally) in my relationships anyway. When I found twelve-step programs, I had the opportunity to reconnect with my higher power, which was transformative for me. I felt guilt for a long time about not going to Pagan religious celebrations anymore - and eventually I went to a couple - but I noticed that over time the twelve-step program became my "religion" in a way. It's not a religion, of course, but it took the place of what I was looking for from a religion: it was a structured way to explore my spirituality and a community of other people who were working on their lives in the same way from the same basic principles that I was working from. But I still think of my higher power as the Goddess.
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Pagan?
Oct 26, 2010 7:32:22 GMT -8
Post by almostloverr on Oct 26, 2010 7:32:22 GMT -8
Thank you! I had wondered about this, as well. I think the goal is to learn from any kind of HP, whether it be male, female, single or multiple. But I must admit, I do feel the influence of Christianity in such 12-Step Programs, so I am glad to have found another Pagan on here.
Btw, for the others, I echo everything she has said, especially that Paganism, like every other religion, is not without rules. It's not a free-for-all--that's what Satanism is. Every religion (with the exception of Satanism, of course) has a set of moral codes, whether they are clearly spelled out or simply implied. The B.C. era was not rife with immorality because Jesus was not yet born (this is not meant as condescending or anything, if it comes across as such, I apologize).
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lauren
Junior Member

Posts: 68
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Pagan?
Oct 26, 2010 23:14:17 GMT -8
Post by lauren on Oct 26, 2010 23:14:17 GMT -8
I'm glad to see that you've reached out and found people that have similar experiences and insights into your situation. I'd just urge you to remember that 12-step programs only ask that you chose a conception of God that works for you---any power greater than yourself will do. Because 12-step programs are based in AA, which grew out of 1930s middle America, many Christian overtones remain, which definitely turns a lot of people off. But AA was actually pretty radical for its time, especially in its addressing of atheists and agnostics. 12 step programs never ask you to believe in any particular version of God. The only requirement for membership is a desire to recover.
It sounds like you already have a pretty well-developed spirituality, so you're already light years beyond a lot of us when we arrive to program, as atheists or agnostics. Because the 12 steps are designed to get you in touch with a Higher Power that will relieve your addiction, most people experience some sort of change in their spirituality through working the steps; it evolves and deepens. Keep an open mind and keep coming back!
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Pagan?
Oct 28, 2010 10:12:29 GMT -8
Post by candee on Oct 28, 2010 10:12:29 GMT -8
This was quite an interesting read. I would like to know more about the spiritual aspect of a recovering Pagan,Love Addict? It would be great to share with one another
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