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Post by LovelyJune on Aug 14, 2008 5:09:32 GMT -8
A new concept occurred to me the other day and I wanted to share. I bumped into my PoA the other week and he's kind of been back in my life in spurts. Back in the day when this happened i would try to "win him" back. That triggered the realization that I actually do this with my new boyfriend...i have this over-excessive need to PLEASE or WIN and it overtakes me and I lose sight of just ENJOYING the fact that we both like each other.
I don't need to WIN anybody. No one does. Sure, in the beginning we put our best foot forward but that's different. That last a few months and then reality sets in. If you are still working double time to please. STOP.
Taking my own advice, I've stopped putting my energy into doing dumb things like pacifying him, or holding back some of my feelings or expressions so as to not offend him. Going out of my way to help. Silly stuff that will ruin the relationship if i keep it up. Now, instead, I just do what comes more naturally. If i have something to say that i think might offend him, i say it anyway. And i say to myself, "this is who I am. As long as I am not being overly selfish or hurtful, I should be able to enjoy who I am in his presence. If he doesn't like it, then oh well! There's nothing i can do about it." This way feels so much more real and better!!! No more winning. My man might be a prize but this ain't no carnival!
Just sharing!
T
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Post by Sobrietythirst on Aug 14, 2008 18:30:51 GMT -8
Wow Telmita, Your courage really inspires me. I don't like to fight with the people I'm with because I'm scared they will leave me. I find myself wanting to learn things sexually, cooking, watching my weight. I would love to say it was all for me..but I think a great deal is about pleasing a man..so he'll never have to leave me. I find myself wanting to be someone's everything.
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Post by candee on Aug 14, 2008 21:17:06 GMT -8
Oh those words...I want to be someones everything...thats me and if I dont closely watch myself I fall into want to please and please and please some more...
WE are learning...Well dont "T"
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Post by LovelyJune on Aug 15, 2008 7:47:49 GMT -8
Yup. I agree. I was always so fearful that if i didn't PLEASE someone all the time, they'd leave me. Now, i feel like...if you want to leave, go right ahead. There's the front door. it's your loss. It's not that i don't care. I do! i would be devastated if my current relationship ended. But i could cope. And i know i'd be OK. And life would go on. And i certainly don't want to please a man all day and night if he's not completely into me and working just as hard to please me. And as for wanting to be someone's everything...heck, i learned a long time ago that that's impossible. Ah...life! So much to learn.
T
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Post by Sexlessw on Aug 19, 2008 13:25:53 GMT -8
They used to say on TOW that WE were the prize, not "them" (insert POA's name here).
Personally, I like living my life for me. I can't be anybody but myself - and it's taken me many years to FIGURE that out. What Telmita was saying, basically.
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Post by Sobrietythirst on Aug 19, 2008 14:38:10 GMT -8
Sexlessw...I so badly want to be able to just live for me...I don't know what I want, believe...or what to do to be frank
-sobrietythirst
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Post by Sexlessw on Aug 22, 2008 13:29:55 GMT -8
SobrietyThirst:
It takes YEARS to find out what you want. After you've figured out what you believe.
This takes lots of reflection upon yourself & your life. There is no timeline. Correction: there is YOUR timeline.
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Post by brokenchinadoll on Aug 22, 2008 18:44:10 GMT -8
I'm just sort of paging through these posts and I'm glad I came upon this one. Please, someone tell me how you even begin to find out what you want? Who you are?
I have recently figured out I have NEVER lived my own life. My mother controlled my every move until I moved out at 20 and got married. The he took over. He was VERY controlling. He even told me what to wear. How sad is that? After that marriage ended 9 years later, I came back to my mother. And she is still VERY controlling. One of my goals is to eventually be financially able to move out on my own and finally live my life. But, that scares me to death! I have no idea how to live my own life.
Very Scary!
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Post by bluebird on Aug 22, 2008 21:09:18 GMT -8
Its so good to see you 'paging through the post.' How wonderful! When you take a risk and get out there away from your mom you will begin to learn who you are. I know from personal experience how scary that can be. Remember that You are worth it - THIS IS THE ONLY LIFE YOU HAVE. THIS IS IT. HOW LONG WILL YOU WAIT TO LIVE IT LIKE ONLY YOU CAN DO? That is a very worthy goal for yourself. If you keep reading and posting you will learn a lot about yourself. So, what are you doing right now? "Living your life.' This is you, living your life. It is yours to create.
You are on your way.
bluebird
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Post by Judy on Aug 23, 2008 3:27:06 GMT -8
hi all - I feel those feelings, too, brokenchinadoll. It's a bit scairy. I'm looking for work (again) and don't have a clue! As I've posted previously, my life-time motivations are gone and I just don't know. I'm really just taking it a day at a time. Trying to stay calm. Enjoy the present. Do the footwork.
We're all trudging this happy journey together!
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Post by LovelyJune on Feb 25, 2010 3:05:04 GMT -8
Another huge mistake I made with the last bf that I do not NATURALLY do with this one because the need isn't there. I never need to "win" D's attention because, unlike the last guy, I have D's attention. He loves me. Period. When love is straightforward and good and mutual, the NEED for attention evaporates.
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vee25
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Posts: 247
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Post by vee25 on Feb 25, 2010 7:15:15 GMT -8
This post has inspired me to share my way of trying to live my life for ME.
Just recently i have been trying to live my life by fully experiencing it as if i am new to planet earth. This morning i was amazed that we use these little brushes with mint paste to clean our teeth. Next i was fascinated by the fact that we get into these little vehicles with pedals that can take us wherever we choose to go!!!
Most mind blowing for me is that God gave us free will to choose what we want to do with our lives and that each and everyday we have that choice!! I've started to wake each morning thanking God for bringing my soul back to me each morning so that i get to live my life the way i choose to. Really quite amazing when you really think about it. It is to me anyway.
Here's to living our life for us.
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Post by primrose on May 31, 2010 4:07:18 GMT -8
When I was a child I was groomed to be a certain way. I was groomed to appeal to my father. I was taught to be charming, engaging, beguiling, amusing. I was shown how to hook people and how to flatter them subtly. I was shown how to use my energy to engage people. I learnt how to please people and I learnt how to read others. I learnt how to win people over. Usually, because I was attractive and avoidant, I did win others over. I had a false sense of power because of that. I was protected from feeling worthless because people liked me.
With my POA I met someone who I could not fully win over. I tried so hard to win him, and I couldn't do it. I tried every trick in my book. everything I'd ever done to beguile people in the past, I did. Nothing seemed to work. Or if it did, it was temporary. I was exhausted by my attempt to win him. I finally gave up and gave in and accepted I was powerless over the chase. I could not win this man. I had to end the chase. My gifts of seduction were not enough. It was a great day for me, although it didn't feel like that at all. It felt terrible and depressing. I felt worthless without my tricks and the optimism of struggling to win my POA. I realised I'd never win my father's love. Which is what I'd been trying to do symbolically through my POA. I think I won something precious by giving up the chase. If I hadn't met a man who couldn't be won I think I'd still be using my tricks to fend off the deep feeling of worthlessness I had at my core. Feeling that frees me from trying to prove myself worthy by engaging in the chase. P.
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Post by miztex on May 31, 2010 10:47:48 GMT -8
Telmita, Thanks for this post. Oh yeah,.......thanks a lot. Funny how you feel a problem, look here on the board and there is the answer. It happens so often that I used to be in awe and felt that it was my HP answering me. Now I just laugh and say "Thanks, HP". Anyway, I realized a while ago that I was trying too hard with my mom, and my POA. When I was growing up, I asked my mom why everybody teased me or abused me at school, church, camp, EVERYWHERE. She said "You are trying too hard." One day in my teen s I said "F'em, I am not going to try anymore" I became avoidant/socially anorexic. When I got to college, everything changed. I found people that were different; people I LIKED. And they liked ME! I thought I was cured of my "problem" Just a childhood thing; immaturity. But I STILL didn't trust people. AND FOR GOOD REASON! I had no armor, no protection, no self worth, no boundaries for acceptable behavior. You learn those by interacting with people. Good and bad people. The good build up your self esteem by accepting you as you are. The bad teach you the behaviors you will NOT accept, how to recognize them in people, and how to AVOID those people. NOT ALL PEOPLE.
My POA came into my life at the same time I was dealing with my mother's failing health and advanced age problems, and my MIL's malignant narcissism. Three full blown narcissistic avoidants in my life at once. Can you say" overload?" For a while, after dumping POA and MIL into the NC neitherlands, I avoided my mom, too. But I have decided that until the day she dies it will be LC with her. Maybe I will learn not to try hard anymore. I am REALLY struggling with this. I HATE to be near her. But I have to go with the H and kids once a week to see her across town. When I try to be polite and offer to bring her food from a restaurant instead of her cafeteria at the home or take her out, she brushes me off every time. My H says that I am trying to make her follow my script. But I tell him that she has NEVER done that. I am trying to REACH HER. If I try to talk about my problems, she talks about her own problems. If I persist, she says"I don't want to hear it, it makes me nervous." SHUT DOWN! At times like that, I get so raging angry inside that I want to kick her face in! Same way I felt about POA. So best to stay away. I am a sh#% for thinking this but, I wish they were both dead so I could go on and grieve and get over it. I am so TIRED of being emotionally invalidated. I want to BEAT SOMEBODY UP UNTIL THEY HURT AS MUCH AS I DO!!!!!
O.k. ..........two days before my period.....excuse the hormones. But the feelings are still valid; just intense right now.
miz
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Post by LovelyJune on Jun 13, 2010 4:02:54 GMT -8
Miztex-- Everything you are feeling, I too have felt about my father and my ex H. Many times I experienced blinding RAGE towards them for not doing what I wanted, not loving me, not making that connection with me or caring about ME. I was filled with anger for much of my life.
But Miztex, I now know that all that rage and anger inside me was brought on NOT by them, per se, but because I was stuck with them and did not have the courage to leave and find people with whom I was more compatible. I had no choice with my father; he would always be my father and I couldn't change that. But I COULD change whether I went to visit him or not. I COULD change me and whether I had expectations of him or not.
As for the ex H: I made a mistake. I married someone LIKE my father. (duh!) And I was angry at him all those years because I had entrapped myself in the marriage. The anger FINALLY went away when I got up the courage within myself to divorce him. And when I was finally free and on my own, I eventually (5 years later) realized that I need to start dating men who didn't make me angry. What type of man was that? Someone who shared my same values, someone who loved me the way I needed to be loved. In order to find that man who shares your same values and loves you the way you need to be loved, you NEED to KNOW YOURSELF. You need to know who you are and what your values are. Keep seeking, Miztex. The more you recognize how much control you do have over your life, and the more risks you take to do good for yourself, that anger will wash away. I promise.
T
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Post by iselita on Jun 15, 2010 8:23:09 GMT -8
Thank you for your post Telmita. I tend to be so full of guilt that i can't see past that. I always feel that i could of and need to try harder. Not just for the x but for anyone. Whether it be a man or woman. I feel that me just being me IS JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Then when i speak my mind well that just makes me plain selfish. I start believing that i am selfish, so with that i hold back. By not considering what i need in order to please. I like you mentioned get scared of being left. Of not being accepted, i am scared of being myself. The only ones who love me for me is my parents and my kids. I am just glad because they have too so to speak. Beyond that i get scared.....My poa always told me that everyone was always so important to me.
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Post by LovelyJune on Jul 15, 2010 2:54:12 GMT -8
Isel--
No one HAS TO love you. Your kids love you because they believe in you. Your parents love you because they see the beauty within you. You need to find people more like them. And you need to build confidence in yourself. This is essential to better health and happiness. You are no different from anyone else. Snow falls on your head just the same as it does everyone else. Get used to this idea. That value and WORTH is not something you are born with. Value and worth are not bestowed upon some people and not others. Value and worth are earned from within. People with confidence and self-esteem were TAUGHT to have these things or STRUGGLED to find them. Nothing else made them worth more than another person.
Value and worth, for everyone, is SUBJECTIVE. They ONLY exist if you allow them to.
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Post by iselita on Jul 30, 2010 11:47:38 GMT -8
I am grasping that same concept. It's a wonderful feeling to be confident, when it is from within. I have felt this before and know i have the ability to believe it and feel it again. I want to walk away from this experience, wishing my poa the best. Being happy for him and loving him for who he is in the human sense. I tend to repeat this behavior with other people friends and so fourth. Thank you telmita your post is so insipiring.
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Post by lacypooh on Sept 13, 2010 21:08:50 GMT -8
wow M,
I too experience great blinding rage towards my mother, & spent so much of my life trying to WIN HER & the same cycle has shown up in my relationships as well as my friendships till eventually I did as someone else mentioned here & became a social avoidant all together. But i never knew (until i came here) WHY i kept ending up in such horribly draining relationships, i mean I would do ANYTHING to get approval or validation from my mom.
But it's weird, she won't admit she emotionally abused me as a child, but she goes out of her way to be nice to me now & although i'm happy about that, part of me does still hate her for what she put me through( i know, i know,) but i use that word because it's true. I love her dearly, but i hate the situation & pain she caused me as a child.
T--i agree that this anger i feel will leave once i build the courage( & finances lol) to move out, to start my own life because living with her, i still feel trapped. She is still controlling & although i have stopped trying to please her, she hasn't stopped rolling her eyes, or making lil noises or any of the other passive aggressive behaviors she inflicts on me---which is terribly annoying & aggravating.
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gordana
Full Member
Newcomers Greeter
Posts: 189
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Post by gordana on Sept 21, 2010 5:26:55 GMT -8
Wow. So many of us struggle with relationships with our mothers. I still do, and I am 53. My mom is 73. All my life I felt sorry for her and tried to rescue her. From feelings of hurt, and pain when my dad mistreated her. I remember watching my mom pleasing dad after he was raging at her. She used to make him supper, and cater to him, after a terrible fight. I always wondered why. Then I would try and be nice to her, watching out that I dont hurt her verbally, like my dad did. Even now, I call her every day, and listen to her complaints about dad. But I have learned not to react any more. I try and take her shopping sometimes, and see her as a woman who never had a life of her own. I tried pleasing my eh for 10 years of my marriage. All I wanted from him was to talk to me like a human being and not rage. I used, cooking and sex to please him. But nothing was ever good enough. With my poa, I used sex to make him want me and pay attention to me. I am ashamed of the things I did in order to get this man's attention. I now know that I can never "win" anyone's love and attention. If it is not given to me freely, I am not wasting my energy on thinking about new ways to please anyone. Not as much anyways. I catch myself earlier. Thanx for reading.
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Post by lostandconfused on Sept 21, 2010 21:46:29 GMT -8
Primrose,
Thank you so much for your post. It's like you were in my life, but with me it is my mom. I've been trying to win over my POA for almost 14 years. I thought that if the father of my son didn't love me who would? And the truth is I was really just a little girl trying to get her mom to love and accept her. But Telmita's right you don't need to "win" over someone who really loves you.
My mom and I haven't spoken for over 6 years so maybe that's what contributed to me sticking with my POA for so long even after he cheated and married another woman...still trying to figure it all out but my mom is definately a big trgger for me.
Telmita thanks so very much for your post!! I have really been struggling with rage this last week and its nice to know that it will eventually go away. I have spent so many nights wishing both my mom and my POA would have just died instead of abandoning me because it would have been so much easier to grieve and move on instead of dealing with the rejection. I wish I could speed up the process a little though...
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Post by lostandconfused on Sept 21, 2010 21:49:55 GMT -8
Value and worth, for everyone, is SUBJECTIVE. They ONLY exist if you allow them to.
I LOVE this Telmita! Gonna be another sticky note on my mirror!
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Post by livingwithoutguilt on Sept 22, 2010 23:23:58 GMT -8
hi telmeta , i was trying to start a new post ,but ended up here. I'm in another relationship ,yes, another one. This guy seems healthy and its scaring me, why do i feel afraid?
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Post by lacypooh on Sept 23, 2010 7:00:14 GMT -8
It seems that everyday I discover something else, the winning him ( or her) thing that we suffer with goes back toour childhood, i know mine is from an emotionally neglectful mom ( probably a narcisisst) I could never, ever please her, EVER. She didn't take any interest in my life, she didn't know anything about me until my father died, but i was already an adult( 23) by then, the damage was already done. She takes no responsibility for this, but i spent most of my life trying to "win her", trying to avoid her critical eye, I became a shell of myself, hating the spotlight, hating to put myself out there in any way. I didn't want to be rejected or criticized. The only emotion she showed me was anger & disapproval, but i never knew what I was doing wrong, so i was always second guessing myself, scared to make decisions, scared to stand on my own..........
This 'winning him" thing continued to show up in my relationships with my female friends, ( all of who reinacted my mother's treatment of me , i accepted it & tried to "win them" as well. It was like a silent cry, "please stop mistreating me, please be nice to me, please love me", but they wouldn't, i was always made to feel like "i wasn't good enough", not a good enough friend, not stylish enough, not outgoing enough," why are you so timid?" I can't believe I endured this abuse over and over with different friends. I would end friendships, just to end up in a different, even more abusive one.
My father loved me & showed it, I don't understand why my relationships with men were equally screwed up, but like everyone else here I tend to go for the unailavable men, the ones who make me[/i/ work their love, for their approval.
Being co-dependent on someone else to enjoy life has been such a let down, but at least now i know the cause & origins, now comes the hard part---overcoming them.
I DO NOT WANT TO LIVE THIS WAY ANYMORE!
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 26, 2010 4:12:48 GMT -8
Livingwithoutguilt-- I don't know why you feel afraid. Maybe you should be! How long have been dating? Women like us who come from very bad relationships need to slow down to the point of not trusting anyone. Dating should go at a snail's pace until we are able to build trust in someone and determine if they are healthy or not. You may simply be going too fast, or you may not be ready. Don't get into a relationship because you want a relationship. And try to avoid getting "swept away." At this point in our lives, we have to be more calculating, and keep boundaries up. That is not to say romance cannot be found. It's to say, protect yourself this time around and don't dive in too quickly.
prettywingz, I believe when you are neglected by one or both parents (whether it be a father or mother) you take on certain defense mechanisms to help you get through that tough time in your life. And they work real well in protecting you against a parent. But the thing is, we continue to use those faulty defense mechanism when it comes to our adult relationships and in that scenario, it doesn't work so well. Trouble is, they're already ingrained in us. It's time to start re-learning healthier ways of interacting with people. That's what this site is for. It teaches you healthier ways of protecting yourself, interacting with people and how to, essentially, grow up. Read everything you can. You will find a way to a better life. Trust me.
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Post by lacypooh on Sept 26, 2010 8:33:21 GMT -8
Thank You Telmita,
You are very wise!
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Post by Free at Last on Sept 29, 2010 9:41:11 GMT -8
I want to share something that worked for me in not trying to "win" my mother's approval.
Until a few years ago, I was miserable because my mother treated my like an orphan or as if I was adopted. She treated all my brothers as if they were gods and my sisters were treated poorly but to varying degrees. I was at the bottom of the totem pole and miserable. When my abusive xh left me for another woman, my mother wanted to know: "What did you do/not do to drive him away?" Instead of showing concern and being supportive, she launched an all-out-war with me. I was going through separation and divorce from my xh at the same time so it was pure living hell.
My aunt and uncle were my only lifeline during that dark time in my life. My wise uncle told me that he, too, suffered at his mother's hand. His secret to dealing w/the rejection and pain caused by her is this: "Just look at your mother as if she is a stranger, just another woman on this planet. Don't look to her for validation/love/etc. Pretend that your biological mother is dead and you are truly an orphan. When you stop seeking approval/love from the woman who "looks" like your mother, you will feel so much better. Since she is a stranger, you don't expect her to behave in certain ways. If she reaches out to you w/kindess, accept it. If she igores you, it's okay. We don't let strangers' actions affect us."
It was hard at first but as time passed and I practiced what my uncle taught me, things improved so much. Now I hardly even think about my "mother". I still interact w/her and my father and siblings on special occassions but by emotionally separating myself from her, she no longer has the power to hurt me like before.
Hope this helps some of you.
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Post by Free at Last on Sept 29, 2010 9:45:47 GMT -8
Another interesting thought just occured to me. I should look at my POA and all people the same way I just described--strangers. The truth is that they are all strangers to me. By spending time together, doing things, becoming emotionally attached, etc., they become "family" to me. However, if I can look at my own biological mother as a "stranger" in order to "save" myself, why don't I just look at strangers as who they really are and get over them? LOL
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Post by stillalive2dream on Feb 24, 2011 14:08:53 GMT -8
I'm embarrassed to admit it but most of my insane obsessive behaviors in the past were due to the thrill of winning someone over. The sad part is half the time I didn't even like them anymore it was just the thrill of the chase. If I could get someone to want me I would get that high and temporarily feel better about myself.
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Post by reinventmyself on Feb 24, 2011 14:21:13 GMT -8
ditto . . I won my ex N-H Lucky me! I've able to win or win back more than not. Nothing to be proud of. After journalling some I see a pattern of when I return to a not so good relationship something negatively life changing happens. (pregnancy which led to termination, I was 17, STD etc.) If that's not enough reason to not return. . I don't know what is. My friends have called me the recycle-er. Embarrassed
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