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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 17, 2009 3:07:10 GMT -8
Someone on the LAA site recently said that they desperately needed love and sex in their life. I think it's safe to say that most LAs have an unhealthy, "desperate" need and want for these two things that far surpasses the average, healthy human need.
Why is this so? Why are we like this? Why are we so desperate for love and sex and the comfort and attention of a partner? And more than anything, why is breaking up and NC so darn difficult that we go right back out there to find new love again?
My answer to these questions, most of them anyway, is based on the idea of wealth and poverty. Think about this: in the real world, the poor are desperate and HUNGRY. They are CONTENT WITH crumbs BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOTHING ELSE. They cannot afford to eat well, dress well or live well, so when something free comes along, they take it; not so much because they want to, but because they have no choice. They have to lower their pride in order to survive.
Think of a hungry, mis-treated animal in captivity. Think of how he reacts when someone throws him a crumb of food. He devours it! Why? Because he has nothing else and he never knows where his next meal is coming from.
Conversely, think of the rich. They have anything that money can buy. They can eat their favorite foods, they never have to settle for left-overs or crumbs, they don't have to shop at cheap-quality stores because their money can afford them the luxury of shopping anywhere they want. With this lifestyle, they tend to think in terms of entitlement. They are entitled to the best of everything. They perceive the world in a different way. They believe that they deserve the very best and that they never have to settle. Because of this thinking, they tend to surround themselves with only the best things.
What does any of this have to do with love addiction? Nothing really, except that Love addicts BELIEVE they are poor and so they act poor. By poor in this sense I do not mean financially. I am talking more about a poverty of the soul. When you feel desperate and needy and wanting it's because you are HUNGRY, STARVING, RAVENOUS. You haven't eaten a decent meal in years, if ever, and so it becomes the most important thing in your life.
The good news is, we don't need any money to change from poor to rich in our situation. We need healing, we need to feed ourselves, we need to start to think like a rich person: that we are entitled to something better in this life...and that we CAN afford it and we DO deserve it. But in order to begin to think like that you need to fill yourself up with goodness and love and care. Spend time on your recovery. Invest in yourself. Don't believe that the answer is in your POA. HE OR SHE IS A CRUMB THAT YOU PRESENTLY ARE ONLY INGESTING BECAUSE YOU'RE STARVING. If you were well fed and happy, you would never eat from a garbage can.
I use this analogy of food and love all the time. It was one of those ideas that helped me realize I wanted to start thinking like a wealthy, well-educated, well-taken care of individual. And that the more I thought like this, the better I felt about myself. The better I felt about myself, the less likely I was to put up with crumbs.
Hope this helps someone!
T
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Post by candee on Sept 17, 2009 4:36:23 GMT -8
I feel you on this one.Im 80% past that intense need to be loved.That overwhelming hunger.It happens most often when Ive been drinking alot and sometimes when I get triggered.
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berly
Junior Member
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
Posts: 65
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Post by berly on Sept 17, 2009 6:21:01 GMT -8
Telmita, that was awesome! Good analogy.
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Post by staystrong on Sept 17, 2009 6:28:15 GMT -8
Telmita...good post.
I see this poor mentality in me still. I am also like the starving orphan that was adopted by a wealthy family and even though I have all I could ever want I still horde food under my bed...just in case.
My wife has a lot of love for me. I have two beautiful and loving children. I have friends and family near to me that support and nurture me. Yet I still felt starving for love and sex and found it outside my marriage in my POA. Even now...as I try to put my marriage back together...the three course meal in my life...I find myself with hunger pains....missing my POA.
Thing is...only I can feed myself...I need to realize that I am sitting here with a full belly....picking my teeth...crying about being hungry!
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Post by Light on Sept 17, 2009 6:34:21 GMT -8
Beautiful and true metaphora, Telmita. I'm in recovery 4 months now but still need to listen to this kind of examples and words to focus better on my healing.
Reading your post made me think my PoA could never be the right person for me, he is different from me, he has behaviours I don't approve, other values, different culture.
I was really "hungry" and that not beacause I didn't have love for my husband but because I didn't have love enough for myself.
One thing I can say about my PoA is that he realized what my condition was and he said to me: "Treat yourself well, because you deserve it".
In recovery I'm learning to love myself and I 'm growing.
Thank you !
light
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Post by Angel on Sept 17, 2009 7:18:40 GMT -8
Lovely comments Telmita, I really needed to hear that. I want to be someone who doesn't settle for sstuffs. I left my husband because he only wanted to feed me sstuffs and then I started to accept them from others. I can now see my HP protected me by making these 'sstuffpy' relationships not last.
Rejection is God's protection!
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Post by reinventmyself on Sept 17, 2009 8:28:26 GMT -8
<<If you were well fed and happy, you would never eat from a garbage can.>>
This comment took my breath away and caused me to pause. . .
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Post by brokentoy on Sept 17, 2009 10:00:13 GMT -8
Wow. Yes. Exactly.
Funny thing--in the moment, I honestly thought those garbage can sstuffs were delicious.
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Post by reinventmyself on Sept 18, 2009 7:45:14 GMT -8
same here. . .
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gordana
Full Member
Newcomers Greeter
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Post by gordana on Oct 18, 2009 14:37:59 GMT -8
I love the comparison to the food. I have been away from my last poa for 4months. No contact of any kind. I was starting to feel better and thought I was ready to meet someone new. We met on line and went out 4 times for cofee, and he had super. He offered me suer but i refused. He was working on separating from his wife, but still living together. I was so hapy that he paid attention to me. I was willing to wait for him to get his divorse, so we could start a romantic relationship. He was way below what I deserve, but I was so hungry. I realised I was becoming adicted and I stopped any contact with him. This weekend i was very sad, i pain and crying I realize they are withdrawals. Gordana
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Post by Angel on Oct 18, 2009 18:31:55 GMT -8
Dear Gordana,
Sounds complicated and as if he still isn't totally available! You are correct in that you deserve better!
I find it is best to wait until all the pain is out before deciding to do anything. Men aren't naive, they sense our pain and if they are in any way unhealthy they will use it to their advantage. A good man, a caring man would sense it and keep his distance until he felt you were healed and truely emotionally available.
It is hard to go through the withdrawals and i realise how it feels but focus on your goal as being recovery rather than a relationship. It really does work! What you focus on is what will manifest whether you are ready for it or not. So if you focus on a relationship you will get one! But it may not be good for you!
If you focus on your goal as recovery then you will become healthier and if a relationship happens along the way you will be more ready for it!
Keep posting and share what you are feeling. We all experience loneliness and pain. At times I am very lonely so I come on here and read, and read and post and post. It helps with the pain and the hunger for love, but it is much healthier than being focused on someone else!
Take care and keep posting!
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Post by soloact on Oct 31, 2009 22:27:21 GMT -8
i agree, what a awesome anology.....i hope you dont mind telmita...i copied your post so i can read it every time that i get weak and feel the need to make contacy with my poa,,those words have such strength and conviction,,,,i knew i came to the right place Attachments:
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Post by roz2008 on Nov 2, 2009 21:25:28 GMT -8
Very good metaphoric analysis. So true! So glad I'm rich today.
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Post by geedee on Nov 3, 2009 3:35:01 GMT -8
that makes me stinking rich today! Thank you God
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gordana
Full Member
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Post by gordana on Dec 5, 2009 21:05:28 GMT -8
than you for that Angel. I dont even thin of him any more. I am woring on my step four and staying in touch with everyone here and my sponsor. The pain is gone, and I am realizing that I ned to pay attention to those red flags
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seeme
New Member
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Post by seeme on Dec 8, 2009 14:18:32 GMT -8
What a great analogy...I feel like a starved animal..and I await for any bit of sstuff from my husband...if he is unavailable that day, I will go dreaming of some sstuff from POA...and as a torchbearer , is the first POA is unavailable, I will continue my begging to another POA...when there is a nice warm meal...right there inside my heart. I hope I have the courage and will to go get the warm meal...and heal!Tks for the post
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Post by gratefulheart on Dec 8, 2009 15:26:58 GMT -8
seeme, thank you for this post. thank you for your transparency. I needed this so much today. You took the words right out of my mouth. I feel like i'm on a rollercoaster of "love" that is literally making my heart and body sick, even my soul. I shift back and forth between different POA's and i've actually hit a point where NONE of my POA's are available. how's that for having to face addiction? I am a torchbearer like yourself and my hubby is emotionally unavailable and withholds affection on a regular basis so for years to survive this (just like i did as a little girl in my home) i go into the torch mode where i begin to look for the next POA to fix me, take away the pain. i know how painful this addiction is. I'm so glad we have such a wonderful board to come to and amazing people who can identify and encourage us. i hope to one day be able to give back for the beautiful gift that's been given by Susan and the board.
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Post by richardv on Dec 9, 2009 12:32:08 GMT -8
I'm definitely starving for Love and feel that most women I look at see a fluorescent sign on my forehead that says:
NEEDY AND DESPERATE
What ever I do (steps, phone calls, meetings, posting here, exercise) seems like a temporary relief from the loneliness and longing I have to hold a woman in my arms and kiss her lips...I'm shaking and feel like crying...alcohol seemed easy to stop in comparison (actually I drank for years but it drowned my feelings so I never felt them this intensely)
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Post by LovelyJune on Dec 10, 2009 5:22:05 GMT -8
richard-- I know this is going to sound counterintuitive, and completely radical, bordering on hopeless and cruel, but I want you to really THINK ABOUT why I am confronting you with this. What if someone came up to you today and said, "You will never be able to love a woman or have a sexual relationship with one ever again; you're only option in life is to love and be loved by family and friends." What if this was your destiny based on your circumstances, Richard? At what point in your life do you accept and love yourself AS IS, without constantly seeking that which you do not possess? Your job as a human being who loves himself, is to accept your life and your situation as it is, and to give up this life of LONGING. When we long for something, we cannot see or appreciate what we have in the now. We are blinded by HOPE for a future that may not ever be ours.
Sometimes love addiction and longing for love and affection is akin to a person who constantly seeks fame and fortune and feels like a failure if these things don't come to him. His whole life is built on the hope that he will be rich and famous some day, but his chances of becoming those things, as with everyone's, are slim to none. So he spends his whole life in longing, never appreciating what is right in front of him.
All the work you are doing, Richard, seems to be for this one outcome: to meet and love a woman. But what if this never happens? Western culture lies to us by telling us in movies and novels that romantic love is the most important thing in the world, BUT IT'S NOT! There are other things of more value. But you cannot see that because you are starving. The work that you do on yourself is for you and your own personal strength. We do NOT do all this recovery work to GAIN a relationship. That's not why we do all this work. That's NOT recovery. Recovery is about loving yourself and accepting who you are AS IS. It's not about becoming a hero and winning the leading lady. It's about saying, I MAY NEVER FIND LOVE AGAIN, BUT I'M OK WITH THAT. For most people, this is the scariest, ugliest truth that they never want to face. It was for me. But once you face it, once you accept it, once you embrace reality, that is when your whole life changes. Not for anyone else but you.
You are longing for something you do not have. You are building a life on things and wishes you do not possess. You have to somehow accept what you DO have and be happy anyway. My breaking point came when I was 40 and realized that there was no one for me. The well had run dry and that I would probably never love again. That I would probably be alone for the rest of my life, except my kids and my family. I made peace with that because it was all I had left. Because I would rather be happy than miserable. Because being alone was better than being disrespected, avoided, mistreated and devalued. Anything decent that came my way was a plus, but it wasn't something I longed for anymore. It is at this breaking point, at this moment of SURRENDER when life becomes worth living. I never understood that until last year. And quite frankly, I am trying to hold on that feeling for dear life, because I never want to lose it.
Please, Richard. Read "Man's Search for Meaning" by Victor Frankl if you haven't already. The man was a psychologist. He had a beautiful family, love, a great job; he had it all. And then he was captured by the Nazis and held in a concentration camp for years. Did he suffer? Yes, he did. He suffered and lost many family members including his wife and some of his children, I believe. AND YET, he was able to accept the meaning of his life and remain alive and vital in spite of his situation.
You are in your own concentration camp right now. But unlike Frankl who was captured, YOU put yourself there, Richard. Now that you're there, you need to make peace with it, or learn how to get out. That's your job. That's your life. Happiness is a NOT a right. It is a privilege that must be earned. I hope, for you sake and for your peace, you can see that.
T
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Post by winnie on Dec 10, 2009 6:34:10 GMT -8
A while back I decided that when there was so much suffering in the world I could no longer believe that I was entitled to a relationship. I had just read an article on the Rwanden genocide.
I realised that I had all I needed. I was alive, happy, healthy, safe. I decided then to let go of the last bit inside of me that felt a relationship was the life eutopia I was waiting for. Sex and companionship are nice but I knew I could live without a relationship forever if that was the way it went.
It didn't; several months later I am happy and in love. Lucky me. Its not the mkaing of me though. I was already made.
I feel I sound like I'm preaching; I am aware that all suffering is relative, but sometimes you just have to go beyond yourself.
I don't realy agree with the idea that happiness is not a right it has to be earned. I believe this is illustrated through the holocaust which you use in your post T.
I do not think we should be telling LA that they have to EARN IT. This exactly the sentiment which gets us in too trouble in the first place surely?We are entitled to it and should learn to take it. Everyday when you wake up, its there for the taking. It takes work to see this but its there.
I Think we are all automatically entitled to happness the minute we are born, HOWEVER what I do believe is that we have to take reasponsability for it. This is not easy. Therefore you end up feeling like you have earned it I suppose.
Happniess is a choice I make every morning. In the end its that simple.
winnie
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Post by LovelyJune on Dec 10, 2009 7:01:23 GMT -8
"It takes work to see this but its there." The work that it takes to see HAPPINESS and BE HAPPY is how we earn it, Winnie. We have a right to be treated with decency and respect, and yet, we must work to maintain that right. Same with freedom, privilege, joy, wealth etc. Not everyone is born into a life of privilege. Most must earn it. I believe it's the same with happiness.
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Post by winnie on Dec 10, 2009 12:19:41 GMT -8
Gosh I hope i haven't upset you telmita, that was terse Everyone above loved what you wrote so its just me here, I'm cool with that. I am not afraid to challenge stuff. On some level I agree with your what your saying. I think your sentiment is right, and very very valuble. I like it on some levels. I don't really understand what you mean when you say we have to work to maintain the right to decency and respect and yet we are entitled to it, thats a contradiction. In society we walk around with a certain amount of trust, we behave decently towards others in the hope that they will do the same with us. There is no sense of "earning it" other then if we have perhaps commited a crime and gone to prison. There is given trust and rights. This is the way society works. Same with freedom, most of us don't rally work to maintain freedom, do you mean freedom of the mind? I'm not sure. You talk about a life of privalage and how mostly this must be earned. I think this is a separate thing entirely to earning happiness and kind of irrelavent. With joy, you don't "earn it" you realise it. Maybe you do that through work and comittment on yourself, but your not "earning it" your coming to a realisation. I object to the terminology I find the phrase "earn it" negative in its connotations. Also it is inaccurate. when we are "earning" soemthing we are in a transactional situation with another person. Maybe you mean we earn it with 'ourselves', but your examples of decency and respect contradict this. In the end another person may never have the experiences you have, they may never be lucky enough to recover to the degree you have, maybe they just haven't got the personality to do that. It doesn't mean they have any less of a right to happniess. I find the idea of earning it a little like your saying in order to be happy you have to suffer, that unless you suffer you suffer like some people you haven't really earned it. Because Suffering is relative. This can never be the case. It actually reminds me of my mindset when I was in the throes of addiction, I felt that pain equaled happniess. Maybe you mean that if your going to recover you better bl**dy work at it and commit if you really want it to happen. I agree with that one. So I understand your post and agree with some and not with other bits and some of it doesn't make sense to me. Thats ok, recovery has to be about being able to stand up and in a measured way say " actually no I don't agree" its ok. I think its an important lesson for all of us. Best wishes Telmita, winnie
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Post by LovelyJune on Dec 10, 2009 15:12:36 GMT -8
Winnie! I'm accused of being terse all the time. That's OK. You should know I don't mean anything in my tone. I love that you question me...I questioned back, that's all. Or rather, I tried to clarify what I meant. It's OK if we don't see eye to eye, but I think we do. You said it best when you said: if your going to recover you better bl**dy work at it and commit if you really want it to happen. I agree with that one. That, Winnie, is how you EARN your recovery and thus, your happiness...in my opinion, anyway
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Post by richardv on Dec 10, 2009 16:04:39 GMT -8
Telmita, ouch
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Post by winnie on Dec 10, 2009 23:45:05 GMT -8
I actually think we agree too, same sentiment different wording Richard, you heard her, she doesn't men anyhting by the tone, shes trying to help you, take it one the chin and let it help propell you into the next place. winnie
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Post by richardv on Dec 11, 2009 7:16:25 GMT -8
"What if someone came up to you today and said, "You will never be able to love a woman or have a sexual relationship with one ever again; you're only option in life is to love and be loved by family and friends."
If someone knew the future that clearly I'd ask that person for some Football Scores so I could bet and get out of debt! Seriously if this was certain that would confirm my fears when I first got divorced-that my life is really over except for watching my kids grow older (they will be in College in a few years.)
So, I'd be considering singing:
"Suicide is painless, it brings on many changes..."
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Post by LovelyJune on Dec 11, 2009 14:41:01 GMT -8
richard,
I am not telling you that you will never meet anyone ever again or that you will never love again. But I am asking you to imagine the possibility. Only by imagining the possibility and ACCEPTING WHATEVER FATE BEFALLS YOU will you be free of constant longing and neediness. If suicide is your answer to the struggle that is ahead of you, then maybe you would feel more comfortable maintaining your sense of longing and pain and staying right where you. Maybe you are comfortable where you are; and that's OK. But you need to make peace with it then. I'm not sure.
Yes...it is a horrible thought to imagine. But if you can bring yourself to imagining it and still find beauty and purpose in the world and in your life, then you will recover. It is a painful path but once you cross over and change your thinking, the PAIN GOES AWAY and the true beauty of life begins! Sometimes we have to give up our fantasies in order to become healthier.
Unfortunately with love addiction there's a fine line between fantasy and HOPE. We all need hope, Richard. And it's not that I am trying to take that hope away from you. Instead, I am only trying to get you to see that there are other things in life besides romantic love. If you never found romantic love again, what would you do, assuming suicide were not the option? Would you just die a lonely miserable life? Or would you make the best of your circumstance and love all people as friends and treat people like family? Would you see only darkness and pain? Or would you see the light that life is just as beautiful?
We are put on the precipice every day, Richard. We can choose to see the positive in life or the negative. Every day when you wake up you make the choice as to what you will see. There is no reality. It's only your perspective.
My best friend was a runner and an athlete. And then in 2004 she lost her leg in a motorcycle accident. In one moment in time, a part of her body was gone, never to grow back. Did she feel sorry for herself and pity herself and crawl into a hole and want to die? No. She did something better than that. She went into physical therapy and she learned to adapt to her missing leg and found even more joy in life. Unlike us, Richard, she has no leg, and yet she is happy. How is that so? Unlike us, Richard, the Dalai Lama has no wife and never has sex and yet, he knows and feels love and is the happiest man on the planet. How is that so?
I am only asking you to THINK about different ways of living, I'm not telling you it will be so. When you do that, it takes you away from your suffering. But if you can't think outside of the box, there very possibly will not be any growth on your part. Maybe there will! I don't know.
Again, I'm sorry if my post offended you. But it was only meant as an exercise in stretching your ability to think of other ways experience life.
Best
T
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Post by winnie on Dec 11, 2009 14:44:10 GMT -8
Its weird I have thought about this today and put it to some friends as well. I wanted to try and get my head around what you meant as I felt perhaps on some level I was misconstruing you.
I began to think about something my mum says ( as do lots of people) the world doesn't owe you aliving.....
It made me think about happniess. I guess in terms of this comment I can actually relate to what you are saying better. Although I believe we have a right to happniess it is not owed to us by the rest of society.
I have a family freind who is an alcoholic. The spiral of violence and drinking has gone on for many years. He and my brother used to get into all sorts of terrible trouble.My brother kind of grew up, his freind just regressed. One of the things he always says is " how comes that guy got the nice lady? how comes that guy drives a nice car?" " what the *uc* have they got that I haven't" His anger at the world for not "giving" him what he felt he deserved was destructive and painful to be a witness too. He just couldn't get his head round the fact that those people had worked for those things. They had made some 'effort' ( this guy doesn't understand why people object to the fact he doesn't wash very often, its everyone else's fault and he is hard done by and picked on.) They took reasponsability. This is key.You are in charge. Oh yes.
I guess the dichotomy is that on the one hand these things are in abundance there for the taking. Yet no one is answerable if they are not delivered. In some way this is really really hard for us to get our heads round, there is no one to 'blame.' ( no in the end not your parents, no not even your POA. Hard I know)
LA addiction is essentially laying the blame for your pain at someone else's door. It is thinking something is 'owed' to you. It is a refusal to live until your goods are delivered.... So we whine and cry at the world..... Until you realise that you owe it to yourself and take reasponsability you will remain in the cycle of pain.
I guess I struggle with the knowledge that although we are all human we are not all born with the same abilities. what could take one person a year to work out may take another 6. Its not a case of " your just not trying hard enough" its sometimes a case that your just 'trying.' You may still be imprisoned but your activelly looking for a way out, it might take you longer then your neighbour, but whats that got to do with you. I think its the implications of this involved in your post that bother me. Also just the phrase 'earn it' but I'm not altogether sure why that is yet. Perhaps just because some people will never quite get to where they want to be, but that doesn't make their effort any more valient, therefore I find the term 'earn it' lacking in compassion....
I hope this makes sense , Im sooo tired.
winnie
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Post by richardv on Dec 11, 2009 22:24:25 GMT -8
'LA addiction is essentially laying the blame for your pain at someone else's door. It is thinking something is 'owed' to you. It is a refusal to live until your goods are delivered.... So we whine and cry at the world..... Until you realise that you owe it to yourself and take reasponsibility you will remain in the cycle of pain.'
well put Winnie
I've had many days where I can see that focusing on the last 12 1/2 Years that I have not had a girlfriend is being stuck in the past and in self-pity-"I'm the Victim"
There have been days where I recognize that my deep sadness & crying is not over C, K, W, or V but over my own childhood wound of abandonment (emotional & physical-Mother's death at age 7)
When I picked up a prescription from my Work, V (the woman I had asked out before my suicide attempt) seemed very Cold and unfriendly. I only asked her how she was-nothing else-and she was abrupt and tryed to hurry me up. Why do I feel guilty? Am I a bad person because I was attracted to her and asked her out two months ago? The truth was I let it go when I went to the movie and just remembered now.
I saw a film I highly recommend 'Up in the Air' with George Clooney in one of his finest performances. His job is to fly around the Country and tell people "their job is no longer available" while spinning it into an 'opportunity for the future' which includes a packet. He seemingly has no need for a loving relationship, but it is quite happy racking up his 'mileage.' I will say no more except there are characters in the film that will have an effect on his life. A thought provoking film. I'd be interested what others thought.
I'm not putting energy into looking for women. I'm planning things and doing them.
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Post by ok2bme on Dec 12, 2009 1:06:55 GMT -8
Tired after a long day at work but read the beginning of this & I really liked it. Thanks Telmita! The part about being well fed, then wouldn't eat out of a garbage can hit it. I will be focusing on healthy ways to feed my needs other than my PoA.
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