Post by LovelyJune on Dec 12, 2009 6:34:09 GMT -8
Winnie, this is turning into a nice philosophical debate. Here are my thoughts.
It would be nice, in a perfect world if we all had the right to happiness. And maybe, in a free, democratic society we do have a "right" to happiness (although in the United States it is only stated in our Constitution that we have the right to the "pursuit of happiness" (big difference, and again, the word "pursuit" implies that something must be pursued or earned).
But I want you to take a look at the concept of suffering and the fact that we all suffer and incur pain throughout our lives. So many of us in Western culture nowadays are driven to avoid suffering and pain because we believe we have this god-given right to happiness (this is the crux of our addiction-- not that we believe so much that we have a right to happiness, but because we avoid our own pain for a false sense of happiness). We feel entitled to it. We see happiness in the movies and believe it should be ours. We see happiness in romance novels and believe it should be ours. And then we end up complaining as to why it didn't land in our laps.
We must work for our recoveries. We must work to maintain our freedom. We must work to earn money. We must work to earn love! And we must work to earn happiness.
Think about the man you are dating now, Winnie. What if he, at the recovery level you are currently at, decided to neglect you and go out and see other women and not answer your calls? He would no longer be "earning" your love. What if you did the same to him? You would no longer be earning his.
I always turn to Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, but again, I believe it illustrates the relevance of this discussion. Sure, humanity has the right to be treated with decency and respect. Right now in the US gay couples are fighting for what they believe is their right to marry; African Americans fought for their right to equality; and women fought for their right to vote. And yet, in the book, Frankl was captured by the Nazis, starved, beaten, abused, raped and humiliated. His human rights were taken away, stripped from him. So how does he reconcile the purpose and "goodness" of his life but to struggle every day to think positively, despite his circumstances, and NOT GIVE UP hope. He struggled and suffered internally for his happiness, but it paid off. Whether he lived and was set free or died was never the point of his life. The point of his life was that even under extreme duress, he still found meaning in his life. The only way he was able to do that was to work for it, within himself.
The same scenario applies to those who suffer daily. A 65 year old woman who was just diagnosed with cancer has a choice: she can spend the remainder of her life in despair, complaining that life didn't give her enough time. Or she can see the beauty in her life and purpose in her struggle and will to live.
I guess the bottom line, Winnie, for me, that is, is that we all have a choice as to whether we want to be happy or not. Even the most depressed of us still have the free will to make these kinds of choices. And that choosing to see the glass half full or the glass half empty is, essentially, either working towards happiness or giving up.
This argument also coincides with the one we had awhile back on unconditional love. I believe that children have a right to unconditional love, but adults must earn love, and be worthy of it themselves, and thus, there are conditions that need to be met (i.e. if you love your boyfriend you won't cheat on him or call him names etc. That's a condition of your relationship-- and the more you love yourself, the stricter the conditions are).
Anyway, I'm sure I've rambled on more than is necessary. And I still don't see where we differ. Everything you said in your last post I agree with! And as for each individual and what he or she is capable of achieving in life, I believe that that is a matter of their own internal work they do on themselves; the choices they make. If someone gives up on himself (i.e. imagine an alcoholic that loses his job and his family and ends up homeless and dies in a cardboard box) then he will have earned less than someone who worked harder for their happiness (imagine an alcoholic who loses his job and his family, but suddenly realizes he needs help and goes and gets it. He joins AA, sobers up and rebuilds his life. It was harder to do than giving up, but he wanted his life to be more). Maybe I should just end this by saying that happiness is a choice. Period.
The truth is, I love a good discussion-- and those that incite them! Thanks Winnie.
T
It would be nice, in a perfect world if we all had the right to happiness. And maybe, in a free, democratic society we do have a "right" to happiness (although in the United States it is only stated in our Constitution that we have the right to the "pursuit of happiness" (big difference, and again, the word "pursuit" implies that something must be pursued or earned).
But I want you to take a look at the concept of suffering and the fact that we all suffer and incur pain throughout our lives. So many of us in Western culture nowadays are driven to avoid suffering and pain because we believe we have this god-given right to happiness (this is the crux of our addiction-- not that we believe so much that we have a right to happiness, but because we avoid our own pain for a false sense of happiness). We feel entitled to it. We see happiness in the movies and believe it should be ours. We see happiness in romance novels and believe it should be ours. And then we end up complaining as to why it didn't land in our laps.
We must work for our recoveries. We must work to maintain our freedom. We must work to earn money. We must work to earn love! And we must work to earn happiness.
Think about the man you are dating now, Winnie. What if he, at the recovery level you are currently at, decided to neglect you and go out and see other women and not answer your calls? He would no longer be "earning" your love. What if you did the same to him? You would no longer be earning his.
I always turn to Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, but again, I believe it illustrates the relevance of this discussion. Sure, humanity has the right to be treated with decency and respect. Right now in the US gay couples are fighting for what they believe is their right to marry; African Americans fought for their right to equality; and women fought for their right to vote. And yet, in the book, Frankl was captured by the Nazis, starved, beaten, abused, raped and humiliated. His human rights were taken away, stripped from him. So how does he reconcile the purpose and "goodness" of his life but to struggle every day to think positively, despite his circumstances, and NOT GIVE UP hope. He struggled and suffered internally for his happiness, but it paid off. Whether he lived and was set free or died was never the point of his life. The point of his life was that even under extreme duress, he still found meaning in his life. The only way he was able to do that was to work for it, within himself.
The same scenario applies to those who suffer daily. A 65 year old woman who was just diagnosed with cancer has a choice: she can spend the remainder of her life in despair, complaining that life didn't give her enough time. Or she can see the beauty in her life and purpose in her struggle and will to live.
I guess the bottom line, Winnie, for me, that is, is that we all have a choice as to whether we want to be happy or not. Even the most depressed of us still have the free will to make these kinds of choices. And that choosing to see the glass half full or the glass half empty is, essentially, either working towards happiness or giving up.
This argument also coincides with the one we had awhile back on unconditional love. I believe that children have a right to unconditional love, but adults must earn love, and be worthy of it themselves, and thus, there are conditions that need to be met (i.e. if you love your boyfriend you won't cheat on him or call him names etc. That's a condition of your relationship-- and the more you love yourself, the stricter the conditions are).
Anyway, I'm sure I've rambled on more than is necessary. And I still don't see where we differ. Everything you said in your last post I agree with! And as for each individual and what he or she is capable of achieving in life, I believe that that is a matter of their own internal work they do on themselves; the choices they make. If someone gives up on himself (i.e. imagine an alcoholic that loses his job and his family and ends up homeless and dies in a cardboard box) then he will have earned less than someone who worked harder for their happiness (imagine an alcoholic who loses his job and his family, but suddenly realizes he needs help and goes and gets it. He joins AA, sobers up and rebuilds his life. It was harder to do than giving up, but he wanted his life to be more). Maybe I should just end this by saying that happiness is a choice. Period.
The truth is, I love a good discussion-- and those that incite them! Thanks Winnie.
T