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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 4, 2009 5:20:31 GMT -8
I've been reading a lot of posts lately where the individual (the LA) is focusing his or her recovery on finding, maintaining, waiting for or trying to create A BETTER RELATIONSHIP, as if having a loving, intimate perfect relationship were a sign that he or she has beat this whole love addiction thing. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. Love addiction has little or nothing to do with the external world of dating and finding love. I think this is the hardest thing for any of us (me included) to understand. So I'll repeat it: Love addiction has little or nothing to do with the external world of dating and/or finding love.It has to do with your own, personal inner ability to love YOURSELF and BELIEVE IN YOURSELF and not use relationships or people as a means of escaping your pain and suffering. In fact, I will go so far as to tell you that by focusing so heavily on your recovery for the sake of being good at a relationship, you are continuing the faulty pattern that got you into the mess in the first place. And by "mess," I'm talking about your addiction (NOT your relationship, NOT your PoA). Your addiction: That draining, exhausting, undermining, self-sabatoging defense mechanism that YOU built for yourself many years ago to protect you at some point (not from dating, mind you, but from pain; physical, mental, sexual or emotional), and which has now become a defective, poorly functioning crutch. Not only has it become a crutch, but it has become something you don't even recognize anymore. Suddenly, now that you're older, you think you have a problem with men or women or relationships in general (and you do, but...) But you think, if I can just figure out how to BE in relationship, I'll be fine. Sadly, that's not the answer. In fact, it's the problem. And it's resurfacing and resurfacing and resurfacing with each new relationship you get into. My wonderful, loving mother used to say to me, "Tracy, God gives you the same problem over and over again until you figure out how to fix it and get it right. When you fix it, the problem never comes back again." She was so right. For the longest time I thought I was just dating the wrong guy or I was weird, different, strange. I bought a MILLION books on how to repair a relationship. I bought self-help books on how to love myself and how to be the perfect person I could be...I did all of this for the sake of finding the right man. Little did I know I was trying to fix something that was not even broken. I was trying to fix something that I had NO CONTROL OVER: men, dating, love, etc. I was trying to fix the wrong thing! In fact, as recently as last year, I thought I had finally overcome all my problems with men. I thought I had finally proven my worth by dating a guy that loved me and I loved him (despite a few little problems, that I supposed I had to overlook, even though they didn't make me feel too good inside). And then one day, he dumped me. One day, he said, "I don't love you. I must have made a mistake." And upon hearing that, I lost it. I lost EVERYTHING, and I came to the bitter conclusion that I was not meant for love. It was at this point in my self discovery that I FINALLY got it. Love addiction has NOTHING to do with LOVE or men or relationships. It has to do with your independent ability to survive and thrive in the face of loss and pain, and not to cover pain up by losing yourself to the relationship for safety and protection. It has to do with who you are as JUST YOU, not who you are as you relate to the relationship you're in. Recovery and self-worth come when someone dumps you or stuffs on you or beats you down or fires you and you allow it to happen without crouching and hiding. You allow it to happen and you face it and all of its consequences but you do NOT let it get the best of you. You do not identify your self worth with it. Self-worth is a huge part of a successful recovery as an LA. Self-worth is based on identity. It is based on having an identity of one's own and not feeling like a failure or feeling worthless because a relationship did or didn't work out. And considering that one of the biggest issues love addicts have is a loss of identity and loss of self, this is where recovery needs to be focused-- on finding one's own identity. The more we look to solve the problems of our lives outside ourselves, the more lost we become. And sometimes when we hold on to a failed or failing relationship it is because our identity and self-worth is so wrapped up in it. You are not that relationship. Separate yourself from the relationship and start believing in who you are and what you are worth as a man or a woman who is viable and functioning without an intimate relationship. When you have put in the time to do that, to understand who you are and recognize and make peace with your own identity, then you are more prepared when an opportunity for a relationship does come up. At that point, you don't settle. You don't take the only thing out there, or the first thing that comes along, or just anyone to make the pain go away. YEs! Everyone wants to be in a loving, intimate relationship. That is undeniable. It is also part of our biology, and it is a practical, possible, real desire. But we must have a core self first; we must know ourselves and be able to stand on our own and have something to bring to the table first before we can introduce someone new and healthy into our lives. Dating is, after all, a more advanced stage of development. It might take awhile. It might take deferring gratification and putting time and energy into developing the self. But it's worth it. You are worth it. Somewhere along the line we, as a group, learned faulty defense mechanism to get us through some pretty tough times. They worked then, when we were ten and twelve and seventeen. But they don't work anymore. Addiction is a defense mechanism. It doesn't work. And just as the alcoholic must learn to survive and know himself without the bottle, and just as a drug-addict must learn that more drugs is not the answer, we too, must stop seeking out solutions through the PoA and The Relationship. The solution, the answer is in building the self. --------------------------------- Here's a parable I always loved. You may have read it before in some variation: There was a young man searching outside his house, in the grass, for his keys. It was a sunny bright day, with lots of mid-afternoon sun streaming down. An old man came by and asked what he was doing. "I'm looking for my keys," he said. "I lost them." So, the old man wanting to help the fellow out, started looking in the grass along side of him. After awhile, the old man said, "did you maybe drop them in a different spot, because we've been looking here for a while now and I'm not seeing anything." The young man looked up from the grass and said, "Oh, I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that I lost my keys inside the house." The old man was dumbstruck. "I'm a little confused," he said. "If you lost them inside the house, why on earth are you looking for them out here?" "Because there's more sunlight," he said.
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berly
Junior Member
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
Posts: 65
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Post by berly on Sept 4, 2009 5:46:21 GMT -8
Wow, Tracy. I hear a lot of passion in that. I agree. We have to have an identity apart from another person. I believe God gives us our real identity. After all, He gave us our gifts, talents, unique traits and characteristics that make us truly us. Real life isn't outside of us...wrapped up in the circumstances surrounding us or in the people who are or who are not loving us. You are so right. It's hard for those of us who are still wanting what we didn't get from Mommy and Daddy not to keep repeating that in our relationships. I have to believe that God's grace will get us where we need to be. We can know in our heads what is true, but it seemingly takes living it out day to day for it to become reality in our hearts. And we all feel so powerless over our tendency to look to relationships or certain people to mend our broken hearts. I need God to help me stand on my own and to know He will give me the power to do all I am meant to do in this life and give me the power to be what will bless others. Thanks for sharing your experiences. Yes, this love addiction stuff is a defense mechanism, faulty coping, and misplaced faith.
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Post by glaciertraveler on Sept 4, 2009 8:07:06 GMT -8
Thank you, Telmita. Well taken.
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Post by kimgrow on Sept 6, 2009 2:07:37 GMT -8
Thanks so much for this, and the parable!
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Post by staystrong on Sept 6, 2009 7:36:58 GMT -8
Your words ring true.
Right now, as I fight to keep a marriage going I have a sense of calmness because a part of me knows...no matter what happens in my marriage...I am going to be just fine. Yes, I am in for some pain...I am in for some change...but I will be fine...I am fine...life is change.
It is so easy to externally validate ourselves when we have been doing it for so long...and are so good at it. However, my self worth is growing by taking actions that have been difficult and standing in the fires of change to come out the other end with my core intact...I've never done that before.
This is all about us. Nobody else can fill that hole in your soul...only you can...and even then...it's not about filling the hole...it's about accepting that it's there.
Beautiful post Telmita.
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 7, 2009 4:43:11 GMT -8
Staystrong... Great comments. But I HAVE TO add something that I used to go on and on about, regarding your comment. WHat if you started to believe, just for a moment that there was no hole? No void. I think when we believe there's an empty space, it's human nature to want to fill it- especially with yucky stuff like fodder for our addictions. But when we are completely alone, and focusing on ourselves and our soul, we must try to envision completeness, otherwise we are always going to feel empty in some parts. Lacking. You are lacking in nothing. You may not yet have all the tools to complete certain tasks, but that doesn't mean there's a VOID in you. It simply means you need to force yourself to grow in another direction. We are all complete! The "void" is an illusion we've created ourselves out of low self-esteem. Toss that idea out the window today!
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Post by reinventmyself on Sept 7, 2009 9:50:55 GMT -8
WHat if you started to believe, just for a moment that there was no hole? No void. I think when we believe there's an empty space, it's human nature to want to fill it- especially with yucky stuff like fodder for our addictions.
We are all complete! The "void" is an illusion we've created ourselves out of low self-esteem. Toss that idea out the window today
Telmita, Thank you. . thank you for this!! I wake up each morning feeling this hole. It's been THE symptom of my most difficult struggle. I felt this hole this morning. It manifests itself with anxiety. It drew me here to sign on looking for insights. I typically run around all day trying to fill that hole up. It has led me to make bad choices in men. I was just asking myself what that feeling was telling me. The voice I hear tells me I am not enough, because I am alone that something must be fundamentally wrong with me. Yet I have felt this hole while married, while in love, while with my kids, family, friends. I felt it in my childhood.
I found some peace in your words. . again. . thank you!
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Post by noname on Sept 7, 2009 11:41:47 GMT -8
telmita
I could spend a lifetime thanking you for your comments and still not be able to express how deeply your words affect me.
Your original post here is awesome. But your words to staystrong have really touched me. You have spoken directly to very deeply held spiritual beliefs of mine that indeed we are whole, all of us - including ME. Yet, despite that belief, I have been living as if I am incomplete and looking outside to have that emptiness filled. I am not just talking about the love addiction here. I am also referring to my attempts at recovery - looking for completeness, wholeness elsewhere. There is nothing to look for. It is here. I am whole.
Your thoughts have sent me reeling here in a very good way. At this moment I have too much emotion flowing through me to comprehend all that your words have triggered in me let alone comment on them. All I can do is once again thank you for the wisdom and healing your words have given me.
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Post by thinkofsilver on Sept 8, 2009 20:46:23 GMT -8
Thank you all. You have no idea.
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Post by Sexlessw on Sept 10, 2009 13:39:51 GMT -8
T:
Just like that scene in Jerry Maquire (sp) where Tom Cruise tells Renee Zellwigger (sp) that she "completes" him. I hate that scene in that movie. The discussion about voids in ourselves just brought it up to me. "You complete me". Eh - I've completed and am completing MYSELF! Jerry Macquire should have done the same thing.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Sept 12, 2009 17:13:33 GMT -8
I talk about the influence the media has on our love addiction in my book. Good for you for seeing through this romantic notion.
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seekingserenitynow
Full Member
3rd time with No Contact is feeling better every day. The obsessing is cooling WAY down. :)
Posts: 194
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Post by seekingserenitynow on Dec 22, 2009 6:03:37 GMT -8
It is already here. I am whole.
Searching for the lost keys outside in the grass just because it's sunnier doesn't make sense.
Thank you all for this very powerful thread.
Guess that's not just a feminist notion...I really don't need a man to complete me.
I get a little confused though about this when I think about why we need relationships anyway then. If we're so complete without them why have relationships at all? I'm wondering what you all have to offer as answers for that.
Because I read other sentiments that seem just as powerful to me...like these ones (I'm paraphrasing them): * "the 'i' in illness is isolation and there is 'we' in wellness" * "the only way to understand ourselves is in relationship - to each other, to trees, to books"
...and all the other countless sentiments about giving to others and loving each other and community being the best part of life. Even this here forum is proof that relationships contribute to healing...we're all here in relationship to each other helping each other.
So maybe the concept is not that we don't need other people but that it's not a BASIC need? Isn't that one of the problems with LAs is that we see "love" as a need just as urgent as food and sleep?
At one point Susan said the goal is to get about 80% full on self-love and God-love so there's just 20% left in need of others-love. By that sentiment though wouldn't that mean that, yes, other people DO complete us? Complete that lacking 20%?
Or is the idea that we are way happier and healthier with people in our lives (assuming our relationships with them are non-toxic & balanced) but that we should enough self-love that we'd be reasonably healthy even stranded on a deserted island with no human contact??
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Post by roz2008 on Dec 22, 2009 8:26:07 GMT -8
Tho this post has been here a while, I'm just getting to it.
I belong to a few 12 step programs and have for quite some time. I am especially grateful to LAA for giving me tools to keep the focus on myself. Al Anon has suggested I do that, but something about being here has honed on it more.
I've written this before, but in the 3 years I've been here, so much has improved in my life, and it's been done without a man to help. It's been God and me, my kids and my dog.
I won't list them all now, but I gotta tel ya....life sure has gotten sweeter!!
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Post by mybestme on Dec 22, 2009 10:04:29 GMT -8
love to hear more Roz on your sweet life - that's great!
Seeking - I think that loving ourselves leads to healthier relationships in general. I also think that having good relationships with friends, communitiy members, family etc....can be very fulfilling and enriching -- doesn't always have to be romantic love that fills us up.
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Post by LovelyJune on Dec 22, 2009 15:48:04 GMT -8
seekingserenitynow, Very good question, and I'd like to answer it. Recovery is about the self and about building an identity for the self (recognizing values, loving yourself, being compassionate to yourself, etc.) It is important to build a healthy human in this way, especially when he or she has suffered and has stunted growth. But self love is only a building block, albeit a crucial one. The meaning and beauty of life is to be shared with others. But sadly, LAs cannot do that. They are too buried in their addictions, defense mechanism and obsessions. In order to love others and share your own inner love, you must build it within yourself. Only then will you understand the importance of relationships. Suddenly, they will become something totally different. No longer will a relationship be pain and suffering or make you feel needy and desperate. A healthy relationship will allow you to keep your spirit and beauty intact and it will allow you to glow and share your love. Recovery though, and these boards are all about building an identity for yourself and to do that successfully, it's usually best to be alone. You cannot really build your sense of self with others. You must do it alone. But once it's built, it is the foundation for all other relationships, which are much needed in life!. Does that help?
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Post by walkingonwater on Dec 27, 2009 6:32:58 GMT -8
How relevant is this to avoidants do you think?
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Post by LovelyJune on Dec 27, 2009 7:28:44 GMT -8
Avoidants avoid themselves and their problems in similar ways as love addicts. Also, love addicts, in my opinion are the biggest avoidants (they avoid THEMSELVES!). So it's quite relevant. The bottom line for anyone seeking inner peace and truth is that you cannot find the answers outside yourself, in a relationship. They must first be found within.
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Post by Angel on Dec 27, 2009 22:46:10 GMT -8
I feel that I am a more integrated person through my own visualisations. I do not feel that there is anything missing or a void in my life. What I feel like instead is that this is all new and unfamilar. I am DOING things differently, they come automatically but like a child that is learning to ride a bicycle I am not too confident at it and wobble a lot and sit there wondering who will pick me up (no one!) if I fall over or run into a tree. In fact there is nothing to be scared of and as I get more familiar with it I will be able to travel faster and smoother.
The other thing is letting go of beating myself up for the mistakes I made in the past and letting go of resentments towards others who were in the dance with me at the time.
I really don't feel lonely now, it is weird cos that was my main reason for coming here. Now I feel whole but new!
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Post by Light on Mar 19, 2010 10:14:46 GMT -8
It has been always hard to me to recognize my identity. The worst relationship I 've ever had is with myself. It's good now to realize I'm complete, I can love myself and not fear to be alone. I've never loved myself enough. I've always look for someone to love, to fall in love with. I've never respected myself enough. Now I 'm not afraid anymore to love myself and spend time alone.
light
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Post by Light on Nov 20, 2012 2:46:40 GMT -8
I can't describe how much I needed to read this post today...
I feel the pain for being apart from my husband, for not knowing if we will ever be together again, for not knowing if we will work out together again, for fearing loneliness, for fearing abandonment, for fearing my husband doesn't love me anymore, for feeling sadness and for fearing depression.
Yes these are all my fears at the moment but inside I have a will to make it, to feel well anyway, to be happy, to realize myself, to make people I love happy. So despite fears and moments of sadness, I have a strenght and a hope inside, I feel this is the help of God. I have a voice inside which tells me: don't give up, don't let depression win again , get stronger, get independent, find your self, love your self. Don't be afraid!
In your post LJ, you say : Recovery is when you face you have been left alone. And you don't feel a victim and you don't let negative thoughts and feelings catch you.
But you find finally your strenght, your own strenght, which is inside of you and to find it, you have to contact you, to find you, to know you.
I have to make the effort of spending time alone, I feel I have to be alone. I used to call my mother, my friends, my daughter often, but I have to do the effort of talking to myself and do it in serenity.
Thank you for this post, it encouraged and enlighted me so much today!
Light
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Post by Loving My Life on Nov 20, 2012 6:37:44 GMT -8
Im glad I re-read this thread, this really hit home with me this morning. I am just now becoming aware of the damage that has been done from my unhealthy relationship...I thought I would step back out and get on a dating site, well I dont even know how and where to start to even think about dating or anything else at this point. Normal and healthy? What is that??? right now, I would not even know...I can finally see the addiction of mine and my poa's relationship, it was nothing more than fantasy, and being addicted to each other. And all I want to do right now, is just get thru 24 hours at a time, and find myself once again....i dont even know who that is, as far as getting involved with another man right now. So your so right LJ it is not about the relationship anymore, it is about me, and finding my true self again.
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Post by Loveanimals on Nov 20, 2012 21:52:35 GMT -8
This is a great thread! So many people have said to me"oh you just haven't met the right guy".
If I met the right guy I'd scare him off by hanging onto him as my source of happiness.
They have no idea!
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Nov 21, 2012 0:39:19 GMT -8
A middle-aged, very attractive woman I met today was talking about how it was so hard for her to focus on something to make into her career, and how she had never had a long term relationship. I had just spent 3 hours with her and I was pretty sure she is very codependent. Very kind and sweet, and I bet very easy for men to use and to pull the wool over her eyes. With a very endearing sort of naivety to her.
Anyway, she was talking about her troubles with men, and I was talking about loving the self and my journey from intellectually understanding the concept to actually feeling it at times, and the difference it has made to my life. She was saying that there was only so much "loving herself" that she could do, and it didn't really make a difference to her life. I knew she didn't understand what she is up against inside herself. I didn't say that though. I just listened to her and shared my experience. She ran her fingers through her hair and sighed, looking out the car window, and said "The real problem, the REAL problem is...
I waited to hear what the real problem was.
"...there just aren't enough good men around."
I'm so grateful for recovery.
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Post by brainhealth on Nov 21, 2012 5:50:31 GMT -8
LJ,
Thanks for this post.
Brainhealth
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Post by LovelyJune on Nov 25, 2012 5:11:23 GMT -8
@ Jgirl…
Ugg!!!!
And yet, her response is where I was many years ago. I hope someday she figures out that that is NOT the real problem.
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Post by Loveanimals on Nov 25, 2012 9:23:48 GMT -8
Hi Jacarandgirl,
Gosh this is so true! This one site I was on for dating younger men the founder (an attractive 41 year old woman) said "women if you think there are no good men left, then go get them while they're young before they're taken". The founder then showed photos of herselfmarried to an attractive 25 year old man and said "see if I can do it you can do it". That was so alluring to me because I assumed that all men my age were jaded, only complained about their ex-wives and terrible in bed, and that I just needed to do what she was doing.
Reality - those men on that site only wanted older women for sex! They didn't want a relationship at all, the illusion she showed of marrying this gorgeous young man was just marketing. Haha my career is in marketing and I fell for it!
Now I have the new vision of loving myself and I am no longer on that site.
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Post by LovelyJune on Nov 25, 2012 16:38:25 GMT -8
Bodyroll, sales and marketing people are usually the first to be SOLD! I too believed in myths like those. But, in defense, it is because I wanted a relationship so badly (and so quickly!). I never in a million years realized, Tracy, you have to work for it. ANd most of the work you need to do on YOU!
It sounds like you are really starting to learn a lot about yourself lately. Keep working! You're doing a great job!
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Nov 26, 2012 4:01:49 GMT -8
You know the old saying, "If it sounds too good to be true it probably is!"
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vixen87
Full Member
Making a big life change is pretty scary. But, know what's even scarier? Regret
Posts: 109
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Post by vixen87 on Jun 27, 2013 3:04:45 GMT -8
Love this thread really has made me see much clearer this time! I think my previous attempts at recovery failed miserably because I did not understand the whole concept that it was me with the problem and that my POA's addiction is irrelevant......I was stuck in the mind frame that if I could change him then we would both live happily ever after....I just couldn't shake that possibility...part denial and part ignorance I guess! Easier to point the finger than take all the responsibility! This time I know it's ME....only have myself to blame....I'm unhealthy that's why I am attracted to unhealthy men....and once I've taken the time out to learn to love myself....those men won't matter anymore because I won't even be attracted to them! The only person I can ever change is myself! The most wonderful thing about taking full responsibility for everything is that I have the power to turn my life around....no-one can stop me....the worlds my oyster! The focus should be on me, my life, my health, my future....my recovery! Live as you choose and allow the world to live as they choose!
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Post by Loving My Life on Jul 7, 2013 7:41:15 GMT -8
I wanted to put this back out on the open forum, there is a lot of knowledge in LJ post.
We have to put the focus on ourselves, if we are ever going to be able to move forward.
We need to learn how to love ourselves first. This was hard for me too understand, I thought I did love me, but I did not really, or I would not have allow someone to hurt me the way my poa did.
Look in the mirror on a daily basis and tell yourself how much you love you, and you will begin to believe this. I did and I tell myself all the time how much I love me, and it feels good now. Because I really do, and I take care of me and little Carolyn. Hugs
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