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Post by Susan Peabody on Aug 5, 2012 12:33:48 GMT -8
The Addictive Personality . . . Susan P. I have been a creature of habit all my life. If I like a certain kind of food I eat it every day. If I like a movie I watch it over and over again. This led to one addiction after another: sugar, overeating, shopping, drinking, and love. I finally got my addictions under control with the help of support groups. Today, I love variety as much as anyone and all my bad habits are under control. I have thought a lot about what led to my obsession to do the same things over and over again and have come to the following conclusions. The Freudians use the term “repetition compulsion” to describe the mind’s tendency to repeat traumatic events in order to deal with them. Another Freudian term, the “pleasure principle,” describes the need of the infant to seek gratification over and over again. In adults, this would be called the “production of pleasure.” So what happens when we combine these concepts, and what shall we call this phenomenon? Well, for lack of a better term, I call it the “pleasure compulsion,” or “addictive personality.” It is the tendency to repeat the same pleasurable experience over and over again in an attempt to control pleasure and pain. It is the addictive personality, and the attempt to ameliorate our sorrows, that turns us into addicts. If you hang around addicts long enough you will hear them talk about how their addiction started when they “used” to manage their painful emotions. “My mother didn’t love me very much and I turned to food,” says the compulsive overeater. “I didn’t make the football team in high school, and I kept going out and getting drunk,” says the alcoholic. Most people who seek pleasure to dissipate anything from sadness to boredom will move on to other mood-altering experiences—they like variety. Others, however, like routine and the routine gets out of control. Take the child who is rebuffed by her classmates and eats a cookie to comfort herself. The next morning she wakes up and remembers the pain. She could do a variety of things to distract herself from the sadness (or shame), but for some reason this child remembers how good the cookie tasted and she makes her way to the kitchen. Trauma, pleasure, and repetition become locked. Not just trauma and pleasure; that would not lead to addiction. It is the repetition factor that can change this child’s life forever. The addictive personality may be linked to the desire for control. There is no trial and error necessary when you are doing something for the second or third time. Whatever worked before is guaranteed to work again—or so we think. Unfortunately, many mood-altering experiences become a magnet for problems. Food lovers get overweight. Heavy drinkers get DUIs. Gamblers lose their pay checks. Then there is the increased tolerance phenomenon. It takes more and more of the experience to get the desired affects—more food, more alcohol, more trips to Reno. This is the nightmare of addiction. The mood-altering experience becomes a problem, but you are hooked. So why do some people comfort themselves with a variety of experiences and others get locked into a routine of reenacting one or two mood-altering experiences? Can there be a physiological explanation? Many people think so. In his book "Emotional Intelligence," Daniel Goleman discusses at length the relationship between the brain and the addictive personality. It’s all in the amygdala he explains. Why is it helpful to understand the addictive personality? Well, for one thing, it helps explain why the drug addict, long after he has gone through a physical withdrawal, has a relapse. This is discussed in Craig Nakken’s book, "The Addictive Personality: Roots, Rituals and Recovery." It also makes clear that addicts, with their predisposition for routine, are well advised to substitute a healthy routine for a new one. This is why 12-Step programs are so successful. They replace their negative routines with positive ones. Take my case, for example. I was in therapy for years to analyze why I was an alcoholic and food addict, but because of my addictive personality I couldn’t stop acting out. Then I got into the routine of going to 12-Step meetings, socializing with my new 12-Step friends, and working the 12 steps (self-improvement). Before I knew it, my self-destructive habits had disappeared. I had replaced bad habits with good habits. I see people with the addictive personality grouped into two camps. First of all, there are the addicts who have abused a mood altering experience and can never engage in it again. Bill Wilson puts it this way in the book Alcoholics Anonymous: “Physicians who are familiar with alcoholism agree there is no such thing as making a normal drinker out of an alcoholic. Science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn’t done so yet.” Then there are those addicts who can successfully fight the addictive personality and engage in a little of everything without getting hooked on anything in particular. This would apply to food addicts. This is where the battle lines are drawn in the world of substance-abuse treatment. There are those who believe you can train yourself to fight the addictive personality through moderation, and then there are those who believe you can never engage in certain mood-altering experiences without risking relapse. Even some 12-Step programs are divided on this issue. In Alcoholics Anonymous any alcohol consumption at all is a relapse, while in Overeaters Anonymous people believe you may have to give up certain “trigger” foods forever, but when it comes to food in general you continue to eat in moderation.. I won’t take sides on this issue of abstinence versus moderation except to say “different strokes for different folks.” We each, through trial and error, must find the treatment program that works for us. However, whatever form of treatment an addict seeks, he is well advised to admit he has an addictive personality. Remember: “To know oneself makes for power, self-control and success." Of course recognizing the underlying issues of obsession like the addictive personality is not enough to get your life under control. You still have to change how you think and behave. And you have to change what you value and put recovery ahead of trying to soothe anxiety with repetition. But that is another article. I just know that information jumps starts the changes we need to make in ourselves. At least this is true in my recovery. This is why I write. www.thefix.com/living-sober/addictive-personality-0
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Post by Susan Peabody on Aug 5, 2012 12:44:09 GMT -8
I just saw a show on television about the affect of drugs on the brain. (Limerence is a catalyst for various mood-altering drugs.) They took an MRI of a man after he ingested a drug. They did this again when the person was sober but just looking at pictures of the drug lifestyle. The parts of the brain that lit up when the drugs were taken also lit up when looking at the pictures. The doctor concluded that the memory of the drug was as potent as the drug itself and that the lifestyle of the addict was just as addictive as the actual high. This same premise was introduced in the book The Addictive Personality. For full recovery you must change your entire lifestyle. (This is why people go to recovery meetings. They want to change where they hang out.) In AA they recommend that alcoholics stay out of "slippery places." This now seems to have some truth to it. What does this have to do with love addiction? It validates the importance of 1. No contact 2. Getting fantasies under control (cutting back and fantasizing about something besides love and your PoA.) 3. Finding new friends and new activities. Can some of you add to this list. Thank you. |
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Post by brainhealth on Aug 5, 2012 14:54:08 GMT -8
Now- there's a book I need to get. Thank you Susan. This is a very illuminating couple of posts.
brainhealth
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Post by healthyme on Aug 5, 2012 23:02:45 GMT -8
Food has defintely been an issue for me in the past 2 years. Overeating & leaning on carbs thorugh the pain of LA & LA reccovery. It's so hopeful to know that there can be real freedom from that too.
Also on list is this strange addiction to rest, over rest, like I have this phobia of getting too tired. I've spent several exhausting years because of my codependency & LA & remember fantasizing about sleep. Also in 1st grade as a punishment or control mechanism I was not allowed to sleep for an entire night & it felt like torture, my parents took turns sitting in the living room for a night waking me up if I dosed off. This over resting thing has really hindered my life & because I'm usually really not tired enough to sleep, it enables my fantasy addiction. Really hoping to release this thing through the steps.
Yes, an addictive personality for sure. It's great there is specific tools for a variety of addictions.
Thank you for the information. The article was good.
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Post by healthyme on Aug 5, 2012 23:15:03 GMT -8
Oh, food was an issue for me prior to last couple of years, just flared up again.
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atlast
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by atlast on Aug 8, 2012 13:43:17 GMT -8
Paisely
I so relate to your post! ALL of it. I react the EXACT same way except I quit eating when the relationship starts to deterioate, not in the beginning.
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Aug 9, 2012 12:24:06 GMT -8
I totally relate to the "appetite shutting down" thing too. I definitely (what is definite??? Oh well)- I don't have anorexia, but whenever there is something emotional going on for me, either high or low, food is the first thing out the door. I just don't want to eat. It's like there is a closed off feeling where there was hunger. All I notice is that I start skipping meals and make do with just snacking when I have to.
I think that it's about the inability in that moment to take in nurturing. Food is the most nurturing thing in my life, after my thinking and before what other people do for me and exercise. And sleep, which also gets hard to have in large quantities. Ok, so there's lots of nurturing things in life, but food is a biggie. Our bodies take in the sustenance and grow and thrive and can run better, longer, feel warmer, etc etc. Oh, and it's yummy. Our mouths get the pleasure. So when I stop eating, I think what is going on is this core belief that I don't deserve to be nurtured.
My mother was one of the least nurturing people I know. She is one hard mf. No cuddles, no kind words, just a big load of hatred that could spark off into either a rage or simmer back to bare tolerance on most days. That was a good day for me, when she was tolerant. She went through the paces of being a "caring" mother by being at home when I got home from school and asking me how my day was, and after that she just got drunk and abusive. MEALS with her were a nightmare. No wonder I can't eat properly. If I forgot to thank her for cooking she made comments about how ungrateful we were, with barely disguised loathing in her voice. You can imagine how easy it was to enjoy the rest of the meal after that.
Yeah. Mum was so, so unhappy. Miserable. And so was I. I became a love addict not long after that, getting my first huge crush on an older, addicted man when I was 14.
My stomach is in a knot just writing this.
That must be why i could relate to Charlie Brown so much as a child. I loved Peanuts books. Charlie Brown's stomach would hurt when he couldn't be the person he wanted to be.
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Aug 9, 2012 12:32:53 GMT -8
Which leads to my list of addictions:
early childhood: sucking my thumb (till 9)
later childhood: comic books (hundreds I read over and over), lollies, TV (hours every day)
adolescence: sex and love addiction
adulthood: codependency (all bar one of my relationships were with ex or current heroin addicts), workaholic
I have this funny feeling like I'm getting kind of fond of my addictions.
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Post by brainhealth on Aug 9, 2012 17:31:51 GMT -8
Jac,
Do you mean sentimental rather than fond!?
Brainhealth
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Post by LovelyJune on Aug 10, 2012 3:22:31 GMT -8
I can relate! I'm sure we all can if we dig deep. In fact, I tell everyone, that it's not the PoA you have to get rid of or the drugs or the food…it's the addictive personality within you. And that is very much tied into how you grew up and your core nature.
My addictions over the years: love, sex, fantasy, food, cigarettes, coffee, work. And strangely, I have been able to control them all except for coffee! I suppose it's because I believe it's the least troublesome. And yet, it does horrible things to me!
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Post by Susan Peabody on Aug 10, 2012 10:26:04 GMT -8
I just saw a show on television about the affect of drugs on the brain. (Limerence is a catalyst for various mood-altering drugs.) They took an MRI of a man after he ingested a drug. They did this again when the person was sober but just looking at pictures of the drug lifestyle. The parts of the brain that lit up when the drugs were taken also lit up when looking at the pictures. The doctor concluded that the memory of the drug was as potent as the drug itself and that the lifestyle of the addict was just as addictive as the actual high. This same premise was introduced in the book The Addictive Personality. For full recovery you must change your entire lifestyle. (This is why people go to recovery meetings. They want to change where they hang out.) In AA they recommend that alcoholics stay out of "slippery places." This now seems to have some truth to it. What does this have to do with love addiction? It validates the importance of 1. No contact 2. Getting fantasies under control (cutting back and fantasizing about something besides love and your PoA.) 3. Finding new friends and new activities. Can some of you add to this list. Thank you. |
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Post by brainhealth on Aug 10, 2012 11:30:30 GMT -8
Yep - I agree with that. But we also have to deal with the process - so that we don't come under a spell again. Staying out of pubs is fine, but avoiding coming under the influence of a spell is what differentiates "US " from every other addiction. This can occur anywhere .
This a a key thread - it goes to the very center of our presence here. Insights gained from this thread could cut new mustard in delivering recovery strategies
Brainhealth
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Post by Susan Peabody on Aug 10, 2012 11:53:17 GMT -8
I have this funny feeling like I'm getting kind of fond of my addictions. I mention this in my book, The Art of Changing. We bond with our bad habits. We become fond of them. They become fused with our identify and, as it says in the AA literature we are afraid if we give up our habits we will no longer exist. We will be like the hole in the donut. (AA's analogy.) Once we replace our habits with self-esteem and spiritual energy we are shocked about our allegiance to our old habits.Google books about self-esteem. |
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Aug 11, 2012 1:02:42 GMT -8
For me, I haven't felt fond of my addictions before this. (BrainHealth, I think it is fond. Not so much sentimental. I don't want to glamourise them, which seems closer to being sentimental). I didn't want to acknowledge them at all up till now. It doesn't really feel unhealthy as far as I can tell. It feels more like I am coming to terms with them rather than trying to stamp them out and reject myself for having them.
I can see addiction in many parts of my life, in many ways, and in most of my friends. I think that while I am still believing my thoughts (which is a crazy thing to do, think about it), addiction is a way to cope with life until I am ready to face it without needing to numb myself. I can be addictive here, I can be addictive with how long my showers are, how much I eat, how much alcohol I drink, how many phone calls I make and when, being other places on the net, etc, etc etc.
I also think there is only 2 options in life in any one given moment- to choose recovery, or to chose staying asleep and numb (to choose the drug). That is, in each moment we are conscious, we make one or other of those choices.
I'm a work in progress alright. And for the first time in a long time, that's pretty much OK with me.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Aug 11, 2012 10:32:38 GMT -8
I think it is important to point out that the bonding and fondness is sub-conscious. In our conscious mind we are usually ashamed which makes us want another "fix" of whatever alters our mood. I say this in my book Addiction to Love: All addictions start out as a way to manage painful feelings. |
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Aug 11, 2012 11:52:22 GMT -8
So, at the risk of psycho-analysing myself a little too much, the bonding to an addiction that is sub-conscious might not be what I am aware of in this case then. If it was sub-conscious I wouldn't know I was feeling it. The feeling I have is more like I understand why I have these addictions, why I had to choose to be unhealthy rather than healthy, as a girl. A very, very small girl.
I spent a long time feeling ashamed and wanting to deny my addictions. In fact I had no idea I was co-dependent for the whole of my relationship with my last PoA, or any of my rels, even though I had read a book on it years ago and everyone was talking about it. Me? No idea. He certainly had an addiction, that much I knew, and he needed help. The classic codependent set-up.
If you are really interested in the moment that the choice to act out of addiction happens, have a listen to Byron Katie do the work with someone who is struggling with one. It's really fascinating. I've learnt a lot about myself just by listening to other people talk about their thinking and answer the 4 questions. There are thoughts we have that are usually almost completely unnoticed that lead us to the addictive behaviour. It's really like we have no choice- once we have believed this unnoticed thought.
The great thing about that is, once we have noticed these thoughts through the process of questioning ourselves thoroughly with the 4 questions, we are half-way to changing the behaviour. We can never go back to being fully unconscious again. And actually just noticing them is pretty much all we have to do. Because, and this is another interesting thing she talks about, in reality, we don't really stop the behaviour, the behaviour stops us. By that I mean (and I assume she means) that when we no longer believe our stressful thoughts about ourselves, there is no motivation to relieve the stress anymore. Therefore the addictive acting out stops by itself.
Some examples of the thoughts I have that can drive me to addictive behaviour are:
I need a man to love me
I'm not good enough
Life should be easier
I'll never be able to get healthy
Nobody is really there for me
wow that's a good one
I used to have a manual job I did a lot of where i could listen to my music or recordings of things and it didn't interfere with what I was doing. I listened to so much of the work I think I could recite some of them. If you're into that sort of thing, I highly recommend buying or getting hold of the Mental Cleanse recordings. They are 3 day workshops that are recorded and put out raw and unedited. BK and the audience talk about the work and do lots of it.
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Post by lilila on Aug 11, 2012 12:14:44 GMT -8
healthyme: That really is torture, not letting a child sleep! I can´t imagine anyone wanting to do something like that, I´m so sorry for what you had do endure. As for me, I never had anorexia but I have always had trouble eating, apparently because I had very painful stomach aches as a baby. So I tend to see food as something potentially dangerous. I never eat much, get full quite soon. If I eat a lot I get very tired and sleepy. Whenever I´m stressed I start skipping meals and only have some snacks now and then. I was once told food is associated to love, so if you don´t accept food it is a bit as if you don´t want to be loved. That is really an issue for me. I find it easier to love than to be loved by someone else, it makes me a bit uncomfortable and self conscious. Whenever I hear someone has a good opinion of me it makes me feel vulnerable, I dont know why. Maybe I find it easier to be unliked, how silly is that! I think my worst habit - perhaps even an addiction - is to worry and expect the worst outcome in any schenario. It must be fear that fuels this.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Aug 11, 2012 15:33:03 GMT -8
The sub-consciousness speaks to us by sending urges or compulsions. We must learn to recognize them and then ignore them. Exercise your neo-cortex (thinking brain) so it has control over the amygdala (emotions). See Goleman's Emotional Intelligence. Just say "no." |
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Post by Susan Peabody on Aug 13, 2012 12:20:53 GMT -8
In general, limerence suppresses our appetite. You know what else suppresses our appetite. Our passion for our Higher Power. (Second step in a 12-step program. "We came to believe that a power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity.") It really works!!!
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Post by twinsig on Sept 17, 2012 16:48:19 GMT -8
I've been struggling with nicotine addiction for a year or more, smoking, with trouble breathing.
Then switched to smokeless. Now, really trying hard and without Nicorette gum, just cold hard core
quitting!
With this battle on my brain what advice would you guys give?
BTW, a recovering LA/ co dependent and doing great!
Busy at church, work, & riding my bmw, which, Im told is good cognitive therapy, although,
speed can also be addictive, i love it!
Prayer Confidence and will power
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Post by twinsig on Sept 17, 2012 16:48:19 GMT -8
I've been struggling with nicotine addiction for a year or more, smoking, with trouble breathing.
Then switched to smokeless. Now, really trying hard and without Nicorette gum, just cold hard core
quitting!
With this battle on my brain what advice would you guys give?
BTW, a recovering LA/ co dependent and doing great!
Busy at church, work, & riding my bmw, which, Im told is good cognitive therapy, although,
speed can also be addictive, i love it!
Prayer Confidence and will power
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Post by Susan Peabody on Sept 22, 2012 9:51:54 GMT -8
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Post by Susan Peabody on Sept 22, 2012 10:28:51 GMT -8
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tara
Junior Member
Posts: 52
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Post by tara on Mar 3, 2013 11:46:55 GMT -8
Susan, I want to read the links! I was looking for information such as this. I was about to post something on another thread (what you see below) and decided to cut and paste it somewhere more appropriate. I hope that after veiwing your links it's sheds light on my query and interest around chemical changes that occur due to traumatic emotion and withdrawal. I am posting my entry here then I'll read the info. Chemistry!!!!!
Here is my initial post: I wonder what actually happens chemically in our brains when we have had those severe initial withdrawals which make us feel like dying and would allow us to accept anything just to have our poa back. I remember these times oh soo well.
Now I know that there has been much research done on gambling compulsively and how the pleasure centers are stimulated in a cocain like way. So that the compulsive gambler actually almost does not have a choice once they begin to gamble ...they are pulled into the cycle so strongly that they could literally loose it all...including their own life ...to the compulsive disease/disorder.
With love addicts something "definately" happens chemically in the brain!!!! I want to look up research on this. Does anyone have any links! It's hard for us to take the right choices when in the moment our brains are flooded with chemicals caused by these traumatic emotional shifts.
I do know that certain blood types such as mine, which is B, have a harder time balancing out after emotional disturbances because cortisol ( I think that is the chemical) is produced at much higher levels than for some other blood types during stress. (Diet for your Blood Type/Book)
In Daniel Golemans book "Emotional Intelligence" he speaks of catching the trigger before all those chemicals flood the brain and how partners (good healthy aware partners) can help one another by having a code word to speak to the other to help them stop the chemical change before it goes haywire. This chemical change during emotional triggers is what makes people go off, go crazy and say and do things they normally would not. And, it takes a period of time for chemicals to balance out.
I've often had a hangover type reaction that lasted quite a long time from emotional triggers and trauma of relations with poa.
.Just an awareness that our body chemistry had changed due to the emotional trauma and will take time to readjust (and also that it can be retriggered) can be helpful. But I really look forward to seeing any research that has been done around this 'love addiciton' that we all have in common.
Respectfully, TARA
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Post by Loving My Life on Mar 3, 2013 12:04:31 GMT -8
I know when I first got this forum and my head was spinning with all of the obsessions, and I could not figure out what was going on with me mentally in regards to my poa and his effect on me, when I first read about limerence, and I started to understand what had happened. This was where I started and I just keep reading more and more about the psychological aspects of our brain, and how this effects us. I was just amazed.
Every feel good chemical in my brain was in overdrive, the dopamine, and everything else, I had never felt like this ever, it was just like a drug and I wanted the pain to stop, but I got addicted to the euphoria of it all. So yes it is just like a drug, you ignore the dangers because it feels good...and this is what causes the addictions.
I confused the intensity of the relationship for love, and this was completely backwards, intensity does not equal love....it equals dysfunctional.
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Post by jesnic on Sept 24, 2013 21:53:31 GMT -8
I'm addicted to quite a few things and have been since I was a child. But I'd say my biggest addiction (aside from the unhealthy relationship I'm in) is my fantasies. I completely addicted to fantasies. I day dream constantly and create new characters on a regular basis to act out scenarios that I wish would happen in my everyday life. I will go on walks just to indulge in a fantasy without being interrupted.
I crave nighttime because it means no interruptions. I get annoyed if people disturb me when I'm actively engaging in one of them. It's beyond ridiculous. I'm not sure if I find reality so painful and hard to embrace or if it's because I always feel lonely and my mind is my escape from that. I love to read for the same reason and I'm always finding myself wishing the things in my books would happen in real life. It's detrimental to me because it gives me an unrealistic expectation of what life should be like and I'm forever disappointed in real life scenarios.
I suppose this may also be why I'm addicted to the guy I've been with for 4 years on and off. Very toxic. I feel we are both addicted to one another because regardless of who hurts who we always come back. It's not just me. Neither one of us ever seems to have the willpower to stay away when we decide to call it quits. Our relationship has never progressed. Ever. It's stayed in the same stage since we've met and the root of our relationship is fear and anxiety. Neither of us are ever happy. So again, I retreat into my mind. It's always been my saving grace, my companion. And I don't know how to end it.
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Post by Loving My Life on Sept 25, 2013 3:54:22 GMT -8
Welcome jesnic, I am also a recovering alcoholic and when I had been sober for 6 months, I met my poa (person of addiction) and from what I know now, I traded my alcohol addiction to my poa of 4 years also, it has taken me 3 years to finally be rid of him and all the pain associated with him. I share this with you too let you know there is a life after these unhealthy relationships.
When you feel like it, can you go to the "newcomers thread" and share your story with us, how you got here?, and what your recovery goals are? This way other members will see your new and your post and they can offer suggestion to you as well.
We are all glad you are here, you are not alone.
Keep coming back
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Post by Loveanimals on Oct 25, 2013 23:08:07 GMT -8
Like Susan I suffer from anorexia, bulimia and love addiction. Only alcohol isn't a problem for me. Mostly because of the fear of the calories. Shopping usually comes when I'm excited about a POA...... Same with the anorexia. Loss of appetite with limerance. I feel like the eating disorder is like a weed and never really goes away. I'll have a few years of solid recovery and then it will rear it's ugly head. It takes constant diligence. Even now I am pushing myself to eat more fruit, fat and more carbs because I have been under-eating. It's tough, I fear what the scale will do. Progress not perfection. I've been able to catch the ED and have not had to be hospitalized for it in 13 years  Same with the love addiction. I slip but then get tired of it quickly. Went through the whole day of work today and didn't miss texts from men or initiate anything to make the day go by faster. It was liberating. I agree I still have a long way to go. |
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Post by ~w~ on Aug 16, 2015 11:28:49 GMT -8
That is very good information , thank you
I haven't worked all out yet , but I can adress few : childhood - fantazy ,
Later - fantazy, relationships, catbs in food, sex,porn, overspending , negativity , love moves/books/songs , cigarets , alchohol , driving
Not sure what will surface next .
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southernbelle
Junior Member
Recovery is scary, but so is remaining exactly the same.
Posts: 74
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Post by southernbelle on Aug 27, 2015 7:12:20 GMT -8
I definitely think I have an addictive personality. I'm coming to the realization that I have a problem with alcohol. I definitely don't make wise decisions when it comes to my love addiction, while I've been drinking. I've decided to make a goal of not drinking for 30 days. Today is day 2. |
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