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Post by psychedelic on Jul 9, 2010 1:32:34 GMT -8
I was doing some reading recently and came across what are known as the Cluster-B personality disorders (Borderline, Histrionic, Narcissistic and Antisocial) and WOW I have so many traits... and I can also see my POAs in some of them as well! personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/cluster_b_personality_disordersYou can find the diagnosis for each PD on their subsequent pages. BPD and HPD both have relations to abandonment trauma suffered as a child, and from what I understand there are ALOT of people on this site with problems relating to that as it causes us to chase unavailable people. Reading the diagnoses I think that Histrionic PD fits me to a T! Even the introductory paragraph on wikipedia about HPD describes me PERFECTLY  "Histrionic personality disorder (HPD) is defined by the American Psychiatric Association as a personality disorder characterized by a pattern of excessive emotionality and attention-seeking, including an excessive need for approval and inappropriate seductiveness, usually beginning in early adulthood. These individuals are lively, dramatic, enthusiastic, and flirtatious.
They may be inappropriately sexually provocative, express strong emotions with an impressionistic style, and be easily influenced by others. Associated features may include egocentrism, self-indulgence, continuous longing for appreciation, feelings that are easily hurt, and persistent manipulative behavior to achieve their own needs."My POA at the moment is definitely a narcissist and I think I have also been involved with some sociopaths (Antisocial PD) as well. Doing some more research I'd say it is VERY common in this place for us love addicts to fit the BPD/HPD profile and for our POAs to fit the NPD/AsPD profile. Can anyone support this theory? Anyone else here fit the BPD or HPD diagnosis? |
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Post by Susan Peabody on Jul 9, 2010 12:04:58 GMT -8
Love addicts have both BPD and HPD as well as erotomania.
Definition . . .
Erotomania is a type of delusion in which the affected person believes that another person, usually a stranger or famous person, is in love with him or her. . .
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Post by sprite on Jul 31, 2010 5:13:28 GMT -8
My POA at the moment is definitely a narcissist and I think I have also been involved with some sociopaths (Antisocial PD) as well. Doing some more research I'd say it is VERY common in this place for us love addicts to fit the BPD/HPD profile and for our POAs to fit the NPD/AsPD profile. Can anyone support this theory? Anyone else here fit the BPD or HPD diagnosis? Psychedelic, hi. I was looking into this a bit more and it seems that the Histrionics are more akin to the Anti-Socials than to the Borderlines. In fact, it used to be that HPD was considered the female version of AsPD, but I think that's being discredited as a theory now. Lots more men are diagnosed with AsPD than women, but I see from your posts that sometimes your poas are guys and sometimes female. If you've been with AsPD partners then I sympathise. A few LAs are borderline -- that seems to be the most common PD for LAs -- but unfortunately it's sometimes just a label their NPD partners give to them. My poa did the same with his previous girlfriend, and actually there was nothing wrong with her except the fact that she had unfortunately crossed paths with him and got very sick, as he was a very unhealthy man. The main thing is getting as healthy as possible. I know I would never be attracted to anybody with his issues again. Once you realise you have any kind of dysfunction (including LA, which is mostly linked to issues from childhood) the most important thing is to heal and recover. With personality disorders that seems to be a lot more of a challenge and even impossible for some. Also, when we've been hurt it's very easy to want to label the person that hurt us. I do it myself as you can see, but it's not useful. It tends to be self-soothing behaviour and it does stop with time, and when we put the attention back onto ourselves: the only person we CAN change. |
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Post by sprite on Jul 31, 2010 10:41:42 GMT -8
Speaking of wikipedia, this might as well have a photo of my poa next to it: Psychopaths ... do not experience shame, guilt, or remorse for their actions. Psychopaths lack a sense of guilt or remorse for any harm they may have caused others, instead rationalizing the behavior, blaming someone else, or denying it outright. Psychopaths also lack empathy towards others in general, resulting in tactlessness, insensitivity, and contemptuousness. All of this belies their tendency to make a good, likable first impression. Psychopaths have a superficial charm about them, enabled by a willingness to say anything without concern for accuracy or truth. Shallow affect also describes the psychopath's tendency for genuine emotion to be short lived and egocentric with an overall cold demeanor. Their behavior is impulsive and irresponsible, often failing to keep a job or defaulting on debts. Psychopaths also have a markedly distorted sense of the potential consequences of their actions, not only for others, but also for themselves. They do not deeply recognize the risk of being caught, disbelieved or injured as a result of their behaviour.In LAA we are reminded that it is us who need to change, but if there's a chance somebody like this brought you here you'll need to de-brief and process that trauma. It's not like loving a healthy man/woman, or even someone with some level of dysfunction, and it takes a lot of healing. I started with the Steps and they helped save my life, but I needed extra help to recover from the experience. Of course, looking at that paragraph you can only wonder whatever was the matter with me that I stayed with somebody with those traits for even a minute. They don't start that way, and then you become trauma-bonded and it feels inescapable, but if somebody was healthy they wouldn't even contemplate being with anybody with all these red flags. I had zero self-esteem and psychopaths are very good at what they do. ---------------------------------- Edited. Thank you psychedelic, if you return! A DISINGENUOUS HISTRIONIC!! That's my poa!! I would never have considered HPD if you hadn't raised it, so thanks. Even though he's gone now, I always like to understand. I wanted to know what I had been dealing with and you've shown me.  I knew it was more than HPD. It's HPD with AsPD features. |
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Post by veronica on Sept 2, 2011 21:13:14 GMT -8
Psych:
I read the histrionic and laughed -- seriously that's a large majority of the teen girls I've known in my life including me. I love fashion and love beautiful clothes -- wearing them a sign of disorder? And most of the sales people in our office. And what about celebrities? To a 't'!
So I went to hubby to ask him about this, he's a psych nurse practitioner. I mean, they don't sound very mean or pathological or a problem. He said that it's like hitting all the cylinders at the same time, and that it's the addition of the other personality disorder traits that create disruption and pathology. So you have dramatic pay attention to wonderful me people, and then those who are harming themselves or others. So hard to know the difference I think.
My husband will come home and say, "Borderline today!" and what he usually means is a client came in and put him or another therapist on a pedestal with an intense "You're the one who finally gets me!" and then begins either tearing him down later in some very dramatic manner, or begins to pit the professionals in the office against each other. So when someone here says they're a borderline, I wonder -- really? Do you do that to others? Or are you just hyper-sensitive? I know my step sister self-dianosed herself as borderline but while she's very reactive and sensitive (and personally I think it's pretty appropriate to the situatioin, as she says the rest of our family are Vulcans by comparison) I've never seen her create drama between people.
I personally have been obsessed with personality disorders, it was like short hand to understand so many dynamics in my life (or as it's known in 12 step language -- taking someone else's inventory). But I think it can be self-abuse too. Just a call for compassion in ourselves and others with these labels.
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Post by happyberry on Sept 2, 2011 21:46:47 GMT -8
my husband's ex is borderline. she is the most difficult, miserable person I have ever dealt with. I have never met her. It's how I maintain a boundary. It breaks my heart seeing the way she messes with their chlid. Broken promises, confusing her emotions for the child, constant chaos...
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Post by bklynrn on Sept 4, 2011 13:33:24 GMT -8
Yes, some Love addicts have personality DISORDERS but some only posses traits of various personality disorders and do NOT have an actual personality disorder. Psychiatrist's, Therapist's and other health care workers need to place a ''label'' most times to have some working diagnosis. It makes it easier for them to work with a client/patient but not every addict is a full blown Borderline, Histrionic or Narcissitic....though some are. With some people it can take a lot of time to make an accurate diagnosis of true personality disorder and in others it's very obvious.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Sept 5, 2011 19:06:32 GMT -8
I have been diagnosed (although I had to pull it out of my therapist):
PTSD Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (nightmares every night, agoraphobic, afraid of the darkness, jump at loud unexpected noises)
BPD Borderline Personality Disorder (old name for love addicts . . . cutting, self-mutilation, defensive, raging). I Hate You Don't Leave Me changed my life.)
I took a battery of tests over a period of two days, to save my job, and they said I would need therapy for the rest of my life with someone who specializes in personality disorders. I thought I was just a bit neurotic but I guess if you know my story you would agree with my diagnosis. Recovery is slower for us. Yuk. Hang in there if you have a PD. Read up about the "borderline split." Will explain a lot to you. My progress? I don't cut anymore, but under stress I rub my scars.
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Post by bklynrn on Sept 9, 2011 8:20:45 GMT -8
I hate you ,dont leave me is a wonderful book. I read it and got a lot from it. My Mom is a Borderline and would ''love'' me one minute and then something would set her off and then i was the target of ''hate'' and rage. It was so very confusing. The constant push and pull. I was never sure what to do or say or not say. Nothing pleased her than everything pleased her. She still cuts herself but now does it in places where nobody can see it....her feet. UGH!! So when I do see my mom walking with a limp or not placing her feet correctly I know some stuff is surfacing up in her and just stay away from her..I want to forgive her for all she put me through because just as i was wounded by her she was wounded too. I'm just not ready yet. She just absolutely refuses to see me as her daughter and not her parent with the duties to serve her emotional needs. Not sure when I will forgive her but I know I need to in order to not feel that anger for her. I want to be at peace with her. I truly do. But for now, I put her on very limited contact with very strict boundaries.
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Post by happyberry on Sept 9, 2011 10:44:33 GMT -8
Bklynrn. I feel so bad for people with Borderline Mothers. My step-daughter's mom is one and it breaks my heart. She keeps making grandiose promises to this little kid and then breaking them. I try just to be a good role model.
I've actually never met this woman. I avoid her.
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Post by newlifeinprogress on Sept 9, 2011 11:09:39 GMT -8
I guess my former close friend has the "traits" of BPD, although she doesn't cut herself as far as I know. But whatever I'm praying for her and wishing her well unto God.
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Post by bklynrn on Sept 9, 2011 12:03:44 GMT -8
I always felt my mom had good intentions. I really do but when she dipped into her darker side all that good intention went to the way side...until her wave of emotions settled. There was never any consistency and I never knew what would set her off. I'm adult now and I know how to handle her better..which brings me to this book....Stop Walking On Eggshells( Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has BPD) by Paul T Mason.
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Post by veronica on Sept 9, 2011 21:04:34 GMT -8
Butterflygirl and her scars (Susan's username is Butterflygirl) She refers to herself as a wounder healer. In the sixties it was common to write on your hand (in ink) the name of a guy you had a crush on. Susan cut in the name. The blood became a scab and then a scar. Welcome to the Scar Clan as the author Estes says.
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Post by bklynrn on Oct 1, 2011 4:25:17 GMT -8
Here's an interesting way to look at ''disorders'' and diagnosis of personality disorders.
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Post by veronica on Oct 1, 2011 6:21:48 GMT -8
Black and white thinking is something to watch out for and cultivate into shades of gray for sure. Labels can be part of black and white thinking. I have to say though that labels do have a place. They give us a simpler handler on very complex situations, provide some clarity about what to do and what to expect.
When I was able to attach the label of 'sex addict' to a boyfriend I was finally able to understand the real dynamics I was involved in and let go immediately. Whew.
I was in a very chaotic relationship. The guy went quickly from Mr. Perfect to doing really odd things like sexualizing virtually every woman he came in contact with. His behavior got really bad and the value system he said he had when we got together seemed to be melting away. He begged me to stay with him saying it was just a rough time in his life (going through a very acrimonious divorce). If I wasn't in his life, he'd totally lose it he said. As the savior angel, I was happy to save his soul so to speak. My friends at the time encouraged me to stay with him, to 'love him through it'. He was a cute, nice guy with a great job and who obviously adored me, he'd get over this rough patch.
I woke up one morning with the question in my head "Could sex be an addiction?" I went to a book store and found two books on the subject - yes! Bought them both and read them back to back. As soon as I realized my boyfriend was an *addict* I was able to let go. My dad is an alcoholic. I know exactly what I'm up against with an addiction. It made sense of the struggle I had been engaged in, it made sense of my behavior.
I was able to let go of the electric wire and go get help myself.
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Post by sillypoppet on Nov 22, 2011 10:22:12 GMT -8
A great book that I heard about (regarding borderline personality disorder) is "Buddah and the Borderline." It's written by a woman who has suffered from borderline personality disorder. It's on my reading list... whenever I get finished with the piles of books from school.
I agree with Bklynrn regarding diagnosis and labels- they are for insurance purposes and to help with determining the best treatment. I also agree that not all people with love addiction have borderline personality disorder. Love addiction is classified under sex addiction... not personality disorders. You can have someone with a personality disorder who also has love addiction. But, I don't believe that they're interchangeable.
Regardless, I haven't dealt with someone who has borderline personality disorder, but I do have a lot of compassion for those people. I can't even begin to imagine how painful it is.
I do have love addiction, but that does not mean that I have borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality disorder. I was diagnosed with love addiction and social phobia... so again, I would argue that not everyone with LA is going to be placed in a personality disorder category. I think it's important to be careful about trying to diagnose other people or yourselves... this is why we have trained and licensed individuals in the mental health field. Even as a mental health practitioner, they need to be very careful with their diagnosis. Labels have a very negative social stigma.
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Post by twinsig on Dec 29, 2011 13:57:52 GMT -8
My daughters mother fits this mold. Im so afraid of what problems she may face in the coming years, she's 13.
Her mom & 3 sibs were abandoned by thier mother when she was 2 and the 12 yr old sis took over the responsibilities. Dad was an alcoholic lawyer. But, thier mom would come by all the time and visit, tuck the lil-one in bed at night. I think that made the separation anxiety worse.
Everyone who has to deal with her must be very forgiving, I was married to her for 11 yrs, my gosh! I did it for my DD and worked out of state A LOT!
Thankfully, I have a close relationship with my DD, she loves me, trusts me and is counting on me (my ideas) for her future needs and advice.
That........is one thing that's held me together the last 4 months.
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Post by bklynrn on Feb 18, 2012 14:39:25 GMT -8
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Post by innerpeace on Feb 27, 2012 10:50:12 GMT -8
I just had this discussion with my therapist during our last session. I've been reading everything I can about LA and of course online, you see links to other areas so naturally I took every test possible  When I shared with her that I had ended it with my POA I asked her what to expect and what type of "homework" to do to help cope and keep me on track. The first thing she said was don't diagnose yourself! I've seen therapists for years and they've often said that I have a little of this, a little of that because I had trauma, was bulimic etc... But I like the way she worded it. She said to research what I can to help me on a day to day basis and let go of a definition for now. Just keep reading, journaling, coming here and being kind to myself. The diagnoses, as others said, can often be for insurance purposes and while you may have a lot of the characteristics, there are some that you may not have and questioning yourself right now, can be detrimental. That advice worked for me since I'm a research seeker. Thank goodness for this site, it's wonderful to see common traits and support while not feeling crazy! |
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Post by tiredofitall on Apr 27, 2012 21:29:10 GMT -8
I am new but I came across this thread and I want to say that a few years ago I was diagnosed as having mild borderline personality disorder.
I read a book about it (Get Me Out of Here: My Recovery from Borderline Personality Disorder by Rachel Reiland) and I told my therapist I thought she was completely right.
The problem is, the range of BPD is such that you can have one person that has many of the behaviors and barely be categorized as BPD while someone else has nearly all or all of the behaviors and might be classified under psychotic or otherwise. It is kind of a hazy diagnosis. So many people fit into their definitions.
I try not to let that diagnosis rule me because it causes other problems. For example, where I live now... there are many therapists that WILL NOT TREAT patients who have been diagnosed with personality disorders.
I can't imagine why...
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Post by bklynrn on Apr 28, 2012 2:43:08 GMT -8
Hi Tiredofitall
For a therapist, I assume it's just their personal choice because some people with ''serious'' personality disorders do not ever get better. I'm a Nurse and we get a revolving door or ''frequent flyers'' at my hospital who have various personality issues and health problems but the health problems are often secondary to the personality problem. It becomes SO FRUSTRATING to care for some people because they lack insight, refuse to care for themselves and don't even want to learn to care for themselves. Sometimes the care giver(Nurse,MD, Social Worker) just become enablers in an indirect way. We would love to see them get better and feel our efforts produce a good outcome but oftentimes their emotional damage is too deep---we simply treat their symptoms and health issue, discharge them and then they come back days or weeks later with the same problem that is secondary to their underlying personality problem. Very frustrating at times--so I assume that's why some therapists would chose not to treat certain people. Just a guess though.
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Post by Herenow on Apr 28, 2012 2:54:15 GMT -8
I have a dear friend who works in the field of addiction and trauma, and she says now what they are saying is the big diagnosis is trauma and the personality disorders are really symptoms underlying trauma. If you can find someone who treats trauma, EMDR, Somatic Experience, EFT. And it has been stated that some people have suffered severe damage, but I know for many good trauma therapy can be very powerful in treating these symptoms and healing addiction.
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Post by bklynrn on Apr 28, 2012 3:19:07 GMT -8
Yes, Diane--almost EVERYONE with personality disorders have underlying trauma. The ''disorder'' is just symptoms of that underlying trauma. It's usually a combo of PTSD and personality problem but it's all trauma based.
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Post by Herenow on Apr 28, 2012 4:34:58 GMT -8
amazing isn't it. and so it goes, lots can be done when the trauma is treated, a lot of healing can occur and at least for me I can learn how to manage my personality symptoms, I can be aware of my patterns and intervene on myself before I get too whacked out, this is such a comfort to me as in the past without understanding, recovery and healing the drama queen would fly!
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Post by bklynrn on Apr 28, 2012 5:42:33 GMT -8
Hi Diane--Yes, it is amazing. My awareness is what helped me with my symptoms the most. It took many years of looking into myself and feeling my past and seeing/feeling how it projects into my here and now. Lots of work and self analyzing but it's helped me sooooo much. I used to be totally whacked out...lol. Very dramatic and even now---around certain people and certain stimuli I can flip back into my old ways but I can easily catch myself now and not sink into the abyss..lol
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Post by Herenow on Apr 28, 2012 16:03:00 GMT -8
Yes yes yes bklynrn...yes I can slip but not for long....and I know the abyss is there and I know I can choose not to slip that far, it is wonderful isn't it. But it does take years to get to this place ( well at least for me as sick and in denial as I was). Still now love being at this stage of recovery, well worth the effort!
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Post by looking4direction on Aug 20, 2012 0:10:36 GMT -8
some people with PD's do get better with the right therapist, right therapy, etc. I refused to believe that they all can't. Esp bpd's.
Rachel Reiland's book proved that. She at least learned how to deal with her emotional regulation and she did address her trauma issues. ("Get Me Out Of Here" by Rachel Reiland) and her husband did not leave her.
Just my thoughts of hope.
Carol
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Post by dindar on May 25, 2016 9:03:39 GMT -8
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Post by Summer_Azure on Jun 17, 2016 14:15:55 GMT -8
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I knew it was more than HPD. It's HPD with AsPD features.
When I shared with her that I had ended it with my POA I asked her what to expect and what type of "homework" to do to help cope and keep me on track. The first thing she said was don't diagnose yourself! I've seen therapists for years and they've often said that I have a little of this, a little of that because I had trauma, was bulimic etc... But I like the way she worded it. She said to research what I can to help me on a day to day basis and let go of a definition for now. Just keep reading, journaling, coming here and being kind to myself. The diagnoses, as others said, can often be for insurance purposes and while you may have a lot of the characteristics, there are some that you may not have and questioning yourself right now, can be detrimental. That advice worked for me since I'm a research seeker. Thank goodness for this site, it's wonderful to see common traits and support while not feeling crazy!
