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Post by Susan Peabody on Jan 26, 2008 13:58:34 GMT -8
PDF for printing is attached to this post . . .
Emotional Incest
Robert Birney, Edited by Susan Peabody
There are three types of incest: overt, covert, and emotional. Over incest is sexual contact by a relative. Covert incest is sexual energy without touching (peering, crush, inappropriate sexual talk, coming into the bathroom, etc. Emotional incest is when the roles are reversed. A parent is lonely and turns to the child for support. The child becomes the adult emotionally, and the adult becomes the child. The parent and child are best friends. The parent and child are emotionally enmeshed. There are no healthy boundaries. They used to say "smothered" now they say emotional incest. Emotional incest may seem less traumatic, but it leaves us with a fear of emotional intimacy and unable to engage in a deep connection with an available person. This can leave to love addiction and loving an unavailable person. It can also leave us ambivalent about love. Craving love, and even seeking it out, but also avoiding. I am offering this article by Robert Burney, with his permission, to help people in recovery who have this issue: Consider a scenario where mother is crying in her bedroom and her three year old toddles into the room. To the child it looks as if mom is dying. The child is terrified and says, "I love you mommy!" Mom looks at her child. Her eyes fill with love, and her face breaks into a smile. She says, 'Oh honey, I love you so much. You are my wonderful little boy/girl. Come here and give mommy a hug. You make mommy feel so good. A touching scene? No. Emotional abuse! The child has just received the message that he/she has the power to save mommy's life. That the child has power over, and therefore responsibility for, mommy's feelings. This is emotional abuse, and sets up an emotionally incestuous relationship in which the child feels responsible for the parent's emotional needs. A healthy parent would explain to the child that it is all right for mommy to cry, that it is healthy and good for people to cry when they feel sad or hurt. An emotionally healthy parent would "role model" for the child that it is okay to have the full range of emotions, all the feelings - sadness and hurt, anger and fear, Joy and happiness, etc." One of the most pervasive, traumatic, and damaging dynamics that occurs in families in this dysfunctional, emotionally dishonest society is emotional incest. Emotional incest occurs when a child feels responsible for a parents emotional well-being. This happens because the parents do not know how to have healthy boundaries. It can occur with one or both parents, same sex or opposite sex. It occurs because the parents are emotionally dishonest with themselves and cannot get their emotional needs met by their spouse or other adults. John Bradshaw refers to this dynamic as a parent making the child their "surrogate spouse." This type of abuse can happen in a variety of ways. On one end of the spectrum the parent emotionally "dumps" on the child. This occurs when a parent talks about adult issues and feelings to a child as if they were a peer. Sometimes both parents will dump on a child in a way that puts the child in the middle of disagreements between the parents - with each complaining about the other. On the other end of the spectrum is the family where no one talks about their feelings. In this case, though no one is talking about feelings, there are still emotional undercurrents present in the family which the child senses and feels some responsibility for - even if they haven't got a clue as to what the tension, anger, fear, or hurt are all about. Emotional incest from either parent is devastating to the child's ability to be able to set boundaries and take care of getting their own needs met when they become an adult. This type of abuse, when inflicted by the opposite sex parent, can have a devastating effect on the adult/child's relationship with his/her own sexuality and gender, and their ability to have successful intimate relationships as an adult. What often happens is that 'Daddy's little princess' or 'Mommy's big boy' becomes an adult who has good friends of the opposite sex that they can be emotionally intimate with but would never think of being sexually involved with (and feel dreadfully betrayed by, when those friends express sexual interest) and are sexually excited by members of the opposite sex whom they don't like and can't trust (they may feel they are desperately 'in love' with such a person but in reality don't really like their personality). This is an unconscious way of not betraying mommy or daddy by having sex with someone that they are emotionally intimate with and truly care about as a person. Over the last ten years I have seen many different examples of how emotionally dishonest family dynamics impact children. Ranging from the twelve-year old girl who was much too big to be crawling into mom's lap but would do so every time mom started to cry because that interrupted her mother's emotional process and stopped her crying, to the nine-year old boy who looked me in the eye and said "How am I supposed to start talking about feelings when I haven't my whole life." Then there is the little boy who by four-years old had been going to twelve-step meetings with his mother for two years. At a CoDA meeting one day he was sitting on a man's lap only six feet away from where his mother was sharing and crying. He didn't even bother to look up when his mother started crying. The man, who was more concerned than the little boy, said to him, "Your mommy's crying because she feels sad." The little boy looked up, glanced over at his mother and said, "Yea, she's getting better," and went back to playing. He knew that it was okay for mom to cry and that it was not his job to fix her. That little boy, at four years old, already had healthier boundaries than most adults - because his mother was in recovery working on getting healthier herself. The best thing that we can do for any of our loved ones is to focus on our own healing. And one of the cornerstones of healing is to forgive ourselves for the wounds we suffered and for the wounds we inflicted. We were powerless to behave any differently because of our programing and training, because of our wounds. Just as our parents were powerless, and their parents before them, etc. etc. One of the traps of Codependence Recovery is that as we gain awareness of our behavioral patterns and emotional dishonesty we judge and shame ourselves for what we are learning. That is the disease talking. That "critical parent" voice in our head is the disease talking to us. We need to stop buying into that negative, shaming energy and start Loving ourselves so that we can change our patterns and become emotionally honest. There is hope. We are breaking the cycles of generations of emotional dishonesty and abuse. We now have the tools and knowledge we need to heal our wounds and change the human condition. We are Spiritual Beings having a human experience. We are perfect in our Spiritual essence. We are perfectly where we are supposed to be on our Spiritual path, and we will never be able to do human perfectly. We are unconditionally loved and we are going to get to go Home. Google for more information. Here is one article I found . . . www.joy2meu.com/EmotionalIncest.htmlHere is a first person story . . . www.depressedzone.com/oaeincest.htmlFinally, in the psychiatric community, emotional incest is called enmeshment. Attachments:Emotional Incest.pdf (53.74 KB)
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Post by fairydust on Jan 26, 2008 21:37:56 GMT -8
I can't express how wonderful this site is. Susan appears to have a treasure chest full of books, photos, avatars and helpful information. They are like sparkling gems. I was emotionally incested by both parents, the eldest child who was used to fill the emotional vacuum in their marriage. I always experience an approach/avoidance conflict with men I am attracted to, suggesting I could be an ambivalent love addict. But there is more to it because of the overt physical and emotional abuse and neglect I experienced from my father.
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Post by bluebird on Jul 13, 2008 6:20:22 GMT -8
thank you again, this explains how these seeds of ambivalence came to be in me. I have really NOT wanted to go back to childhood stuff again. I thought that In years of therapy and AA that I had done this enough. But, in reality I have always avoided as much of these memories and the attached feelings as possible.
i am leaning now that they don't go away unless I reckognize them. I just carry them around and they glop onto today and it messes things up. 'so OK, if this is what it take to move forward I'll visit back there again. I have Pia Melody's book on Facing Codependence - do you think that is a good place to start. I got it at the used book store.
I don't want to just dig a hole, looking back and ruin more of what could be a good life. any suggestions?
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Post by sobrietythirst on Jul 24, 2008 9:22:43 GMT -8
I have experienced overt and are still trying to understand how that has subconsiously affected my decisons, but I never meditated on emotional incest. Growing up, I was always seen as intellectually and emotionallly mature for my age so adults would confide in me. My mother would often tell me issues about her marriage to my stepfather and stepfather would do the same (except there was some inappropiate touching there). There were no appropiate boundaries and I always got upset when they then tried to then be parents again. I don't there are also some health issues now so it's all very complicated and seems to be no appropiate place for me.
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Post by Rilly on Oct 23, 2008 20:14:52 GMT -8
Hi Jules,
Welcome to the site. This is a great place with great people that really care. I'm looking forward to reading more about your. Keep posting.
Rilly
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Post by jonny on Dec 5, 2008 17:33:38 GMT -8
I find this thread very interesting because i was connected to a seductive withholder and she hated her father because he showed no love towards her then she got ME and for 12 yrs she was house bound and became very reliant on her mother and formed a very close and even what you may consider immeshed relationship with her mother and still has it to this day..so i fully understand the reason behind fear of immotional connection...and it explains lots of her actions towards me !!!! jonny xxx 
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Post by respira on Jan 25, 2009 9:37:19 GMT -8
I dont´t know if I was incested, but I can say that my parent wasn´t never there, I don´t even remember wanting him, I had a bad imagen of him since I was a kid. The issue was with my oldest brother, who was my first idealization, I always wanted to please him, an he always rejected me, time after time. I relate to men who resemble the feelings that my brother made me experience. Another problem was that my mother was totally psychologically abused by my father, and I don´t know how it happen, I became her confident since I was a child. She asumed I was too mature for my age and that she can get confort from me. And of course, as I child I felt so proud of listening and helping my mother, not realizing the harm that made. I also assumed I was more mature than I was. I think now, as I child I din´t have the capacity to deal with all the problems my parents had as a couple. I felt responsible for my mother´s well being. I don´t want to blame her, he is an amazing woman, who I know loves me so much. I´m just getting to realize that this actually harmed me
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Post by asianaries on Jan 25, 2009 10:45:24 GMT -8
Wow Respira, I relate to how you feel. I too...always felt responsible for my family especially towards my mother. She always came to me for comfort and emotional support. I felt so proud when I was younger because I always assumed that I was very mature for my age.
Now as I get older, I noticed that it's not always a good thing to grow up so fast and never have to deal with the issues in a positive way and follow the natural pace of growing up. When I was a child, I never got to reminisce my own innocense... so as I get older I act more like a kid than anything else because I am trying to relive my childhood and missed just being a kid.
Everything is all mushed up now because when I was younger I was acting more like a 25 year old, and now that I'm older, I am my younger self and acting like a 12 year old. It's hard because eventhough I am 25 years old now, I still don't trust myself enough to think that I can totally take care of me because I am so consume with everything else and is still stuck in this 12 year old state of mind. But I do understand what you are going through.
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Post by asianaries on Jan 25, 2009 10:49:36 GMT -8
Wow that makes sense Susan about the emotional incest thing. I never get why I am one of those avoidant or ambivalent addict people. I crave intimacy but once I get it or whomever get too close to me I back off. It's been like this since childhood and it does not only relate to my relationships with men, it's relates to all aspect in my life...like my job, the people I hang out with, friends...all that stuff. I don't want to get too close to certain things because of fear of losing it, but in the end my resistance ends up pushing both positive and negative stuff away.
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Post by happyann on Jul 22, 2009 22:48:56 GMT -8
This is an amazing thread. I never realized the emotional incest until i kept feeling like pounding my head against walls in my relationships, hurting myself repeatedly and not knowing why.
I went back to the childhood years and there I found some answers. My mom was always jealous and hateful of the 'other women' that my father brought home with, and she couldn't name them directly when they were in the house, so she always used me and told all the 'b----' names on me.
I took all her words to heart. I felt if I have a man in my life then I'm a b-----. So as much as I'm even beyond my child bearing years, I still felt shameful to even date. Like I have 'betrayed' my mother by having any men connection. Her emotional abuse of me is very evident in a lot of my adult relationships.
I remembered she always encouraged me with the guys who repeatedly hurt me, and scorned off those who treated me nicely. Her view of relationships is to use men until they're no longer useful anymore. Treating them as an object instead of a human being.
I'm so thankful I had this realization.
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Post by kimgrow on Aug 19, 2009 20:58:28 GMT -8
Thanks so much butterfly girl!
I am certainly a victim of overt incest. But lately, I've noticed how uncomfortable I am with my mom discussing her and my dad's sex life with me.
Because of recovery work, I've noticed that I end or leave those conversations. This has been going on in some form or another all my life. But, I'm ready for some healthy boundaries.
Thanks again, guys and girls!
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Post by Angel on Sept 16, 2009 8:11:26 GMT -8
This is an interesting conversation and I have been feeling guilty for some time about my daughters seeing me go through what I have gone through with my POA's. I have lent on them both and feel bad about it. I did this during a period when there was no one left here in China - for two months of the year all the foreigners leave and go home and there was literally no one here I was close to. Fortunately, I found this website shortly after my latest POA disaster. I am now leaning heavily on it and all of the members. There are no therapists here! If you want alone, come to China!
I feel awfully guilty about all of this - but I am doing what I can to be better so I can be there for my girls. The weird thing is that I left their father I expected that I would find someone quickly and then be able to show them what a 'healthy' relationship was.
What a joke!
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Post by judy on Sept 16, 2009 11:31:46 GMT -8
Hi China - You CAN show them what a healthy relationship is. The relationship of mother to child.
Also, in taking good care of YOURSELF you will show them the most important relationship they will ever know - or need.
The relationship they have with themselves.
Romantic relationships are the icing on the cake.
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Post by austinpisces on Apr 17, 2012 12:58:20 GMT -8
This thread and these posts are awesome.
It also makes me sad when I think about my own mom who came from a toxic family and was abused both emotionally and physically as a child. She then passed this on to myself and my siblings. Being the oldest kid in my family also left me as the main person for her emotional incest. She doesn't appreciate my stepdad and any time she had an issue with him she would vent to us kids, because she didn't have any friends (according to her, it wasn't good to have friends because in the end they weren't there for you after all).
Still trying to figure this all out. Part of it is probably cultural upbringing. I grew up in a rural German area and no one in my entire family demonstrated physical affection (only my stepdad, in a strange and very unappareciated way), but I know as I've gotten older I've yearned for physical affection. Not necessarily sexual, just hugs, etc.. I feel like a confused individual to a degree...and like it's such a huge pile of old stuff to wade through...thanks for reading my ramblings as I'm trying to get better =)
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mrockmiss
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Post by mrockmiss on Mar 3, 2013 13:42:11 GMT -8
My mom was molested as a child by her father. She was also raped in her 20s. My dad used to beat her and I felt very responsible for her. She told me everything as a child. She never had friends. She would confide in me and tell me how horrible my dad was. It was very confusing because she also told me I was to blame when he would hit me. Many times she jumped in front of me and caught punches meant for me. I used to worry about her non stop. She was extremely toxic. Is this emotional incest?? Never heard the term till just now. Can you suggest a good book or 2 I could read that would address that. She used to threaten suicide and even hospitalized herself once for a breakdown when I was a kid. I have spent so much energy trying not to be like her. Any advice??
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karensheart
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Post by karensheart on Mar 4, 2013 0:27:51 GMT -8
Thanks Susan for that info on the types of Incest... I always knew I was a victim of incest but i would say I was abused enough to screw me up... lol
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tara
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Post by tara on Mar 4, 2013 9:34:01 GMT -8
Susan, I grapple with defining the type of incest I experienced. Dad had always teased me a bit as a young child, like , when on the living room floor holding my small self between his legs so I was trapped . I would yell a bit then he would let me go. He would come into my room after I was asleep and push me up and down on the bed a bit while standing next to the bed. I would yell, then he would say good night and leave (didn't happen all the time). A couple times he play actted cutting my wrist with a knife at the dinner table by grabbing my arm and putting the dull side of the knife on my wrist. After I went through puberty he began to harass me. Couldn't wear certain clothing. [covert incest] He pinched my butt[overt incest] at the fridge and said "hey, you are starting to like that kind of thing aren't you." He made comments like , "So you don't sit on my lap anymore, why, is there something wrong. What is going on with you?" Wouldn't let me talk to boys. Protected me. Listened to my phone calls from other phone. I was not allowed to go out, had to beg (didn't learn social skills because of these things). One day when I was in my bathing suit upstairs he threw me onto the bed. He got on top of me with his cloths on and rubbed himself on my leg and rubbed his whiskers on my neck. I screamed and yelled to stop. He said "Be quiet or the neighbors with think that I'm doing something that I'm not." He finally let me go. I ran and told my mom. My mom said "oh you now your dad he just plays with you for fun forget it." I then called my gram. She listened but never really addressed the truth. I asked her to send my grandfather out to pick me up. He came for me and I left for the day and night. The event was never spoken about again and never again did my dad do that to me. But I never forgot. My dad also kicked me in the ass a couple times , not hard but still?  I believe that he was himself sexually abused as a child. When I told my mom I was having my first period she said "the tampons are on the attic step. Your father is going to be mad about this. He does not like all this girl stuff. He was raised with only brothers." Just wanted to vent ...seemed like the right place and thread. I always thought that I had not been sexually abused. But now I think that I was. TARA From Susan . . . This is awful. You have experienced overt sexual incest, abuse, and some covert incest because you were touched, hit and oggled. My father used to bounce me on his lap and get an erection. Like your dad he came to me at bedtime. Perpetrators play all kinds of games.
Thank you for having the courage to post this so others can learn from your experience. God bless you. For now on you are an incest survivor.
Read The Courage to Heal by Laura Davis.
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lostgirl73
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Get up and try try try was my motto but now my motto is STOP TRYING, JUST STOP, and heal
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Post by lostgirl73 on Mar 3, 2014 20:42:43 GMT -8
Watched the academy awards and heard matthew mconnaughy, talk about how his mom taught him to respect himself. I think about my mom, being a suicidal alcoholic who depended on me to be her spouse, keep her here. who could not deal with life. who was constantly paranoid people are out to get her, lying to her therapists who were trying to help her, all the secrets and lies to keep up her image. it is very painful to feel like without me, even now, my mom will kill herself. I feel trapped and scared and like it is my responsibility to take care of her. I struggle with my role, what is my role, as a daughter, with my parents, to look after them. they do look after me, now, 35yrs old, after 13yrs away living in another city, as I am a single mom, no child support and moving back my career has struggled and I need to upgrade, different requirements. but I don't want to depend on them, I feel stuck, my mom doesn't turn to me like she use to, she has other friends for that, she knows the burden drove me to move away for all these years. she is obsessively focused on my daughter as her source of happiness and my daughter is only 2 but I feel responsible to move with my daughter before she is old enough to become my moms new confidant and my mom wants her to fill her up, compliment her, need her, be dependent on her to meet my moms needs, not my daughters. I wish my mom taught me to respect myself by respecting herself. I need her to stop her alcoholism and black out drinking. be safe. stop going around with other men besides my dad and leaving him hurting. it is such a painful situation. once I can get my own life again I will be very grateful. now, my parents often treat me like I nuisance, they give me money, hire a nanny to help, but never spend time with me, I feel unloved. I gave up meeting their needs emotionally and they have no time for me.
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Post by James C T on Mar 4, 2014 6:40:44 GMT -8
I have just found another piece. Thank you.
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Post by CodepNomore on Mar 4, 2014 23:27:03 GMT -8
Tara, you are brave to have informed your mom and grandparents immediately. My mistake that my parents have died without knowing about my sexual abuses.
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newera
Junior Member

Feeling hopeful
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Post by newera on Aug 10, 2014 20:33:48 GMT -8
Emotional Incest, yep that happened to me. Thank you for putting a name to it. It's amazing how much better I feel just knowing that I'm not crazy, that what I've experienced is an actual thing and not just my imagination or some crazy anomaly that no one else would understand or relate to.
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Post by fufill on Apr 19, 2015 18:29:11 GMT -8
I had a very very weird childhood. Most of the time I was with dad he was always making crying and crying by him telling me that he was going to die and how would I survival because the rest of the family menbers do not love me. I was not allowed outside to play with friends I was was always to be in the house. in term of food I could asked for anything and get it except that I wasnt a eater at all so whenever I got what I asked for I would taste it or not and ask for something else. I had no emotionally connection with my mother at all not until I was 13 years old. My older sister who is 9 years older than I raised me. I went through epilepsy was sick as a very child close to the point of death. I believe now that dad had a very deep fear about death and was all he ever talked to me about. It was constant crying and being miserable with dad in all my childhood, how sad. My childhood was very different than my children.
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Post by purplegrunge on Jul 13, 2016 19:39:18 GMT -8
This makes so much sense! This is why I crave love but I am afraid of it as well! I am an adult to my mother and she thinks I am her best friend. She tells me everything! And gets emotional support form me. And my father is physically and emotionally unavailable. He is just available financially!
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Post by Susan Peabody on Jul 14, 2016 5:06:31 GMT -8
This makes so much sense! This is why I crave love but I am afraid of it as well! I am an adult to my mother and she thinks I am her best friend. She tells me everything! And gets emotional support form me. And my father is physically and emotionally unavailable. He is just available financially! I have discovered that we are all ambivalent. Love Addiction is just a coping mechanism. In recovery we discover how avoidant we are with someone who is available. The avoidance comes from early childhood trauma. A fear of love that stems from the chaos at home. The child thinks is this is love I want nothing to do with it.
This is also an epidemic in our society. We don't sit down to dinner together. Couples have kind size beds. My parents slept side by side. In my family I trace this back to my dad's PTSD from World War II.
Susan
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Post by namaste6 on Aug 9, 2016 3:34:25 GMT -8
My father was a alcoholic and very abusive. He used to cut off my hair, slap me non stop, throw me off chair, tear off my clothes, i never remember him talking with me it was always yelling, screaming, beating. The moment he used to enter the house from work he used to scream that house was dirty and then slap me to clean things up same with my mother. sometimes when i used to go to sleep he used to remove the bed cover from my body and check out my body i was very careful to not let the skirt go up and keep it covered. he used to keep staring at my body parts and as i grew up it became very difficult since i used to be alone at home most times and he used to be drunk
my elder brother was very abusive he used to hit me badly and give alll sorts of bad words. even after i got married he used to disturb my marriage
my mother was always frustrated she used to make me starve, make me do all household work from young age, i was never allowed to bring friends home, or go out with friends, if someone called on phone they used to listen from other phone
i was not allowed to talk to boys, they used to decide everything from what to wear, to where to go, whom to talk to.
my uncle took advantage of this scenario he used to molest me at night. he used to put his fingers into my vagina. for several months it went on i dont remember now.
i was very scared of night time. my dad was drunk and there used to be beatings, and this uncle exploiting me
even any guy shows even the remotest interest in me i get turned on
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sar1
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Post by sar1 on May 31, 2021 1:09:13 GMT -8
Thanks for putting this here. It resonated a lot with me. In the society I live, children stay with there parents even when they're older. And when I was young my grandmother made it seem that my parents didn't took care of her. I remember saying her that I'd buy her gold rings, sofa, etc when I started earning (she complained me about my parents not giving her stuffs). Just realized she used me as an emotional dumping ground, and violated my boundaries. I took her side and used to spy on my parents (specially my mother). If my mother said anything that was remotely against her, write down in paper and show it to her. I think this explains the distrust I have had with my caregivers and the issues regarding trust I am having in relationship. Thanks for sharing this again.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2021 5:35:55 GMT -8
Emotional incest- had never heard of this until reading Susan’s explanation of what it is- thank you Susan.
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