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Post by overcomer on May 11, 2011 9:08:44 GMT -8
I'm just curious, how would you feel if you were not "welcomed" by the person who knows you are back to his/her country?
I mean I'm thinking now why would a person seemingly "avoid" welcoming another person who are in communication w/ him/her?
And if that happens how should I feel as an adult? Should I start rethinking what's going on or just ignore it?
It would be more helpful if you can be honest and specific w/ your answer on how would you feel? Thank you!
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Post by brooklynberry on May 11, 2011 9:12:41 GMT -8
I would feel like this person wasn't worth my time. If a person isn't responding, they're sending a clear message to you that they don't want a relationship. It doesn't mean something is wrong with you bc they aren't responding. It means that it is time for you to get this VERY CLEAR MESSAGE.
If i was so focused on how this person wasn't responding to me I'd realize
a. this relationship is likely unhealthy and
b. The issue is likely within me.
And would notice that I posted about 10 threads about this person and it's time to get honest about my fixation on this person. I don't post ANY threads about people I am not fixated on...let alone go into recovery with them. I'd realize it's time to go back to step one and see that I am still in a whole lot of self will and in a bit of denial and trying to control this.
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Post by reinventmyself on May 11, 2011 9:26:46 GMT -8
HC ~
I have to say that I that it appears that you have some wonderful insights about yourself and why you do what you do.
It also seems as if the obsession with the person still reigns and you've only found a different way, albeit some are healthier, some are the same and you've only found a different avenue to continue the same dilemma: being addicted to this person.
I can't help but think you recognize that coming on too strong with her has scared her off in the past therefore you have altered your behavior to keep her in your life.
Your focus should be altering your behavior. .for you - and letting go of the outcome - with her.
It appears that you are still overly attached to the outcome. . and controlling the situation.
In other words. .
If I do `A' then she in turn will to do 'B'
This is a covert way of controlling the situation.
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Post by overcomer on May 11, 2011 15:58:27 GMT -8
happyberry: Thank you so much. That's a lot. I have to study/analyze 1st what you're saying before I can comment any further. For now, I thought it's called learning to accept her reality w/c is that flaw of not responding consistently or being inconsistent and afraid to commit w/ anyone being a SW. I also thought it's ok to keep posting about the progress of a recently reconciled connection and to discuss openly if there are things I need help from. So that's what I can say at the moment. The rest I need a bit more time to reflect on.. @reinvent: "It also seems as if the obsession with the person still reigns and you've only found a different way, albeit some are healthier, some are the same and you've only found a different avenue to continue the same dilemma: being addicted to this person. I can't help but think you recognize that coming on too strong with her has scared her off in the past therefore you have altered your behavior to keep her in your life." Thanks a lot. I have to reflect more on that before I can say anything.. But w/ the rest, I'm thinking as of now that I'm not trying to control the outcome anymore but it just happened that since I genuinely recognized my wrong behavior already, repented, and got changed step by step, I'm just behaving naturally or normally towards her. I'm learning to understand and accept her perhaps as a SW or as someone not able to respond normally consistently? Especially as you've mentioned that I may used to have been "coming on too strong with her has scared her off in the past therefore.." I'm thinking SHE is the one maybe unintentionally trying to control the outcome by not letting my new natural normal behavior affect her much? So although we have improved a lot and become at peace w/ one another already, she just can't let go "completely" of her past experiences w/ me and my past wrong behavior at least for now? That's why once in a while "avoidance" reappears into the scene?
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Post by dorkestbeforedawn on May 11, 2011 16:08:38 GMT -8
What effect do you think it would have on her if, one day, you disappeared off the face of the earth and never contacted her again?
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Post by dorkestbeforedawn on May 11, 2011 16:27:20 GMT -8
This probably wasn't a good direction, trying to figure out the mind of a PoA.
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Post by brooklynberry on May 11, 2011 16:44:02 GMT -8
here's the thing.
a healthy relationship requires 2 people who are willing to do the work to make it a healthy relationship. If one person is healthy and the other isn't, it won't work. IF you do the work and the other person doesn't, it means the relationship isn't really going to work. What generally happens is the healthy person is no longer willing to tolerate the behavior of the other person anymore. Sounds like you have recovered enough to notice her behavior is off.
when someone is not willing to do the work, we have to let them go. We cannot change them. We should not continually alter ourselves. We move on, knowing there is a rich world out there.
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Post by overcomer on May 11, 2011 16:50:36 GMT -8
dorkestbeforedawn: Thank you! I guess deep inside her she values me but she's just more into her inner child of acting "numb", in seductive withholding or avoidance and keeping her door closed as much as possible w/c I have learned to accept/understand.
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Post by dorkestbeforedawn on May 11, 2011 16:56:22 GMT -8
I see. I don't know how long I would put up with that stuff from someone to whom I was not addicted. My PoA in my current state? Definitely. But that's me.
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Post by dorkestbeforedawn on May 11, 2011 16:59:13 GMT -8
Btw, it's okay to call me "dork." I'm a dorky computer nerd and I take that as a compliment. The full name is so long hahah
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Post by brooklynberry on May 11, 2011 16:59:57 GMT -8
justifying people's bad behavior by assuming how they feel "deep down" is a MEGA red flag in my recovery. we are not psychologists or mind readers. We have to take people's comments at face value.
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Post by tizzy on May 11, 2011 18:56:23 GMT -8
["I'm just behaving naturally or normally towards her."]
["letting my new natural normal behavior affect her"]
New natural normal? Talk about a tongue twister. If it's new behavior on your part, then it's not normal or natural for you.
HO, I too have noticed your growing obsession with this woman. You say you're not addicted to her but your posts here indicate the contrary. You're constantly trying to get into her mind and figure out why she's not responding to your communications towards her. She's not responding because she doesn't want to. Like they say, SHE'S JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU!!! I'm not trying to sound harsh, but who cares what her reasons are for not responding? The bottom line is she is not contacting you that much and this is upsetting you. You are in recovery. The LC you're trying to maintain with his woman sounds ineffective and counter-productive, as well as unnecessary. I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by even doing it. You said in another thread that she is not a friend, just someone you've known a long time. So what? We don't have to hang on to people just because we've known them forever. If they're not healthy for us we have to cut them off. Perhaps it's time to let her go. I'd suggest going strict NC. Give yourself time to sort out your issues. It seems like you're using this whole communication thing with her to take your focus off of you and what you need to be dealing with. You spend so much time worried about her how could you possibly have time to get inside your own brain? What is it you are trying to get from this woman? Whatever it is you need to learn how you can give it to yourself so you stop seeking it from her and other people.
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Post by overcomer on May 11, 2011 19:18:22 GMT -8
@dork: I don't know how long I would put up with that stuff from someone to whom I was not addicted. Hey! I also don't know how long I would put up w/ this kind of communication w/ her. But at the moment I'm understanding it. tizzy: "If it's new behavior on your part, then it's not normal or natural for you" My new behavior as a recovering person becomes my normal behavior now. Got it? TY! :-) "What is it you are trying to get from this woman? " Well, we used to be best friends but now since we are mere contacts I'm NOT expecting or planning to "get"or "take" as I hope to GIVE unconditionally such as sharing to her God's love unconditionally. With the rest of your input, I have to reflect on them 1st. Thanks a lot! : ) @hb: "justifying people's bad behavior by assuming how they feel "deep down" is a MEGA red flag in my recovery. we are not psychologists or mind readers. We have to take people's comments at face value. " Yeah. But she used to tell that to me before. How much she values me.. For the rest of your "insightful" words, I'm still figuring it out for myself. Let me think it over. Maybe tom I'll return here. Thanks! : ) |
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Post by overcomer on May 12, 2011 3:17:05 GMT -8
I guess I was just lacking sleep yesterday after a long trip so I became emotional as I posted here.
And getting back to the same environment also triggers it.
But I really am happy changing the way I relate to everyone. Not just w/ her.
Although I'm paying more attention in how I relate to her it's only bec communicating w/ her is a big challenge for me in the sense that it takes trust and love of God to work in me to be able to do what I'm doing.
I can accept her being that way. It's for her to deal w/ it. I just want to improve in my ways w/ everyone bec it's putting faith into action.
Happyberry: "a healthy relationship requires 2 people who are willing to do the work to make it a healthy relationship. If one person is healthy and the other isn't, it won't work. IF you do the work and the other person doesn't, it means the relationship isn't really going to work. What generally happens is the healthy person is no longer willing to tolerate the behavior of the other person anymore. "
After her past 3 best friends have gone (one after another. I was the last one she added and remained)), she said she is SO EXHAUSTED (last year when I was codependent, disrespecting her reality,etc) and that she is NOT KEEN to have a "serious friendship" anymore. In short there is nothing to expect from her since then. And honestly, I'm ok now w/ just texting her once in a while. No need to have a relationship w/ her. Just letting it be. Thank GOD I have many things working well for me so it's not a big deal if I'm communicating w/ a person like that for the time being at least.
Questions to all: Are ALL your contacts healthy??? Do yoU think it's NOT ok too to communicate w/ anyone who may not be healthy but is not abusive nor damaging to you? If all your contacts are really healthy, when do you apply "respecting others' reality?" Thank you for your input.
The rest of the input here I'm still studying. Thank you.
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Post by misterb on May 12, 2011 3:36:14 GMT -8
Questions to all: Are ALL your contacts healthy??? Not even close! I still have friends that are unhealthy. The big difference to me, is that the unhealthy people I have chosen to keep in my life are the ones that can not trigger my bottom-line behavior. |
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Post by tizzy on May 12, 2011 7:30:16 GMT -8
HO, it's not about whether your contacts are healthy or not. What's it's about is your communications with your contacts and how you deal with them, healthy or not. It sounds like the way you are dealing with this particular woman is becoming slightly obsessive. You say you only text her once in a while. Twice a day and waiting for a response and getting mad about it is not harmless, once in a while communication. Your love addiction (and maybe codependence?) is controlling you. Some people in your life may not be all that healthy emotionally but you have to learn to keep them at arm's length and detach from them emotionally. It doesn't sound like you've done that yet with this lady. You can't say you've detached when you're getting angry at her for not reaching out to you. Even though you deny having expectations of her, it's clear you expect more from her than she wants to give you right now. In situations like this, where your feelings and efforts aren't being reciprocated or appreciated, it's best to let go and move on.
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Post by brooklynberry on May 12, 2011 7:41:58 GMT -8
I get the impression you’re seeking validation for your current decisions in recovery and are perhaps frustrated that you're not getting them. At least from me, it’s not going to happen. I will not encourage someone I see in active addiction, even if they have made changes. It is a process, you don't go from addicted to recovered in a few weeks or even months. It is a project of a lifetime and the willingness must always be there. You are still very very young in this process. Clearly you’re unwilling to really let go and seeking loopholes to keep contact, etc. This happens a lot and generally does not end well. This is your process however. I have given all the suggestions I can offer and if they’re not taken, there is nothing more I can do. But don’t expect the group to validate what is seen here as unhealthy behavior. As a wise woman once said to me, I won’t co sign your bullsh*t. It underminds all of our recovery.
I have to say I don’t relate in any way to this old best friend, new best friend social ranking system you describe. It seems very immature to me and requires an odd hierarchy of relating. That said, I do realize you live in a very different (and seemingly more oppressed) culture than mine (from what I can gather) and perhaps this is the accepted form of relating where you live.
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Post by brooklynberry on May 12, 2011 7:47:06 GMT -8
better stated: why are you occupying so much of your time trying to get the right relationship with this person - examination of this idea could open up some important things you need to examine in yourself.
the expectations you have of her are self-centered in the addict way. This issue of self centered fear and the lack of humility I see in your willingness to admit defeat are all basic step one work.
Your fixation on her is a way to avoid you. See the post on intimacy I just put up.
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Post by reinventmyself on May 12, 2011 8:26:27 GMT -8
My ex H used to watch very closely. .take notes and alter his behavior in order to get exactly what he wanted and evoke a desired response from me. This was done in such a way so as to only benefit him and ease his own discomfort. There was never any lasting healthy change. It was all very manipulative and self serving. In turn he saw himself as saintly. This is why you rarely see me getting involved in this particular arena. Rings too close to home. I'm just sayin'. . . .  (my ex H is a narcissist) |
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Post by Bo on May 12, 2011 8:44:40 GMT -8
HealthyO, sorry you are still struggling with your friend. Also on a side note, it's nice to see that HappyB is brutally honest with everyone to help them through recovery. (and not just with me...whew!)
You've mentioned being in different countries, I'm curious what countries? I wonder if the country that you are from or the country she lives have different cultures and maybe there's a disconnect or misunderstanding?
I had a hard time in France dating a French man last year because in his "upbringing", the woman did not ask the man: "What did you do today?" When I the demanding, intrusive "American Woman" asked that question, he was insulted. When I changed my question to "How was your day?" I got my answer with no friction.
Anyway, that's just an example of how different cultures can make a difference and why I ask what countries are involved in your situation.
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Post by brooklynberry on May 12, 2011 8:59:12 GMT -8
Bo,I'm definitely aware of the cultural thing (I lived and dated in Europe for a while)
and I love you all! I just don't think we recover if we aren't brutally honest!
And you both are! I commend you!
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Post by overcomer on May 12, 2011 9:08:18 GMT -8
@reinvent: Yes in some ways I'm similar to your ex-H (so it seems) except that I'm overcoming codependency not N. And I'm not saintly! I admitted that it's my fault in the 1st place why she became aloof. Bo: Thanks. We have different cultures. But I won't divulge it here anymore. I respect their country and generally they are sensitive to any post related to their religion, culture, tradition. Plus who knows she will read this post in the future and might realized I'm posting about our connection here. That's a total "no-no" to her. That's what happened between us in Facebook. That's where we used to fight the most. She totally hated my past posting in FB in reference to anything that concerns/involves her. |
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Post by overcomer on May 12, 2011 9:15:11 GMT -8
For the rest input I need more time to contemplate. But I really appreciated all your help here.
This is a major matter to me in recovery so I'm taking it slowly and seriously. TY!
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Post by brooklynberry on May 12, 2011 9:17:52 GMT -8
there is something to be said for cultural differences and that 12-step recovery is a deeply American phenomenon, it started here and deeply reflects the values of our culture. I've been to meetings abroad and they still seem American. It is now helping others world wide but most certainly there are elements of recovery that would require certain adaptations for other cultures.
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Post by brooklynberry on May 12, 2011 10:43:57 GMT -8
I can't ever imaging willingly choosing to live some place like that so I really can't make any suggestions. I am sure something is out there.
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Post by overcomer on May 12, 2011 11:10:23 GMT -8
Thanks! W/ all the strictness here I grew nonetheless!
I never thought I could last here and in a positive way. ;-)
I might delete some of my posts that describes this country so as to avoid violating the culture or offending the image of this country.
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Post by tizzy on May 12, 2011 11:30:18 GMT -8
HO are you able to call in to the phone meetings? I believe they are internationally accessible. Perhaps the ladies there may have some ideas to help you as well.
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Post by overcomer on May 12, 2011 11:57:36 GMT -8
tizzy: That's the thing I'm not a phone person. I prefer OL like this board, email, texting. Thanks!
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Post by brooklynberry on May 12, 2011 12:10:35 GMT -8
sounds like you're a little emotionally anorexic HO.
Phone meetings are a great way to actively recover. What I do on this board is like .01% of the actual recovery work I do. It's basicaly like posting on Fb
in AA you have to be going to any length to get sober. This includes using the phone, moving to a place that isn't oppressed etc.
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Post by overcomer on May 12, 2011 13:09:20 GMT -8
@hb: Frankly I don't trust completely a stranger over the phone regarding private matters.
When I was a teenager in a fashion school our photos and identification got published from there on I suffered from an unwanted phone calls by an unknown sex-caller. Aside from that phone call can be heard,tapped,recorded,and all that.
Texting is convenient. Both party can do it anytime they want. That's why I don't mind that my only means of communication w/ my ex-POA is through texting.
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