|
|
Post by sillypoppet on Aug 23, 2011 16:08:10 GMT -8
Hi all...
So, one of the goals that I have been trying to work on is establishing better boundaries in my non-romantic relationships (after all, if I can't have them with friends, then I definitely can't handle a romantic relationship). In the past month, I have been trying to speak up when people do things that upset me. Although I feel like it's good to voice my feelings, I may not always do it well.
This last weekend I may have lost someone who I considered a close friend (11 year friendship). She is an LA, but she is not in recovery. In the past year I have watched her get worse and worse. It's difficult to see a friend suffering, and although I know that only she can work her recovery, I have tried to help her. Perhaps this was my mistake.
Going back to this last weekend, I was having a birthday party. It was to celebrate my birthday, but also recovery. I invited this friend 2 weeks in advanced because I really wanted her to be there. When I checked back in with her a week later, she told me that she might not come because she had a date with one of her PoA's. I was upset, but told her to bring the PoA.
A few days before the party I checked back in with her. Because the party was big, I had to put my credit card down on the reservation. I wanted to make sure everyone was coming. She told me that she could only make it to part of the evening because she had made plans with someone else.
That's when I really got upset. I'm disappointed in how I handled the situation. Instead of calling her, or asking to meet up with her, I tried to establish my boundaries over texting. I know it wasn't the right way to go about it. I told her that I was upset because I had invited her 2 weeks ago. I said that it really hurt that she was choosing people (whom did not treat her well) over me. She became very defensive and angry... and as I was talking to her, my sister pointed out that it was ridiculous to fight over texting. So, I told her that I did not want to fight over texting, it was not a good way of communicating, and accepted her decision.
On the night of my party, as I was getting into the taxi, she texted me. She said that I made her sick, I was controlling, and that she would not tolerate my bullying. Furthermore, she said that she did not need dramatic people like me in her life. She said that if she had to see my face, she was going to scream. I texted her back, apologizing that she had felt like I was trying to control her... I never meant it to come off that way. I also said that I was trying to tell her that my feelings were hurt (that was all). She responded by telling me that I was wrong to say anything.
This was someone that I considered to be one of my best friends. I went to the party, and even though my friends (who are friends with her) said that she is not emotionally well, it was still really hard. I keep trying to beat myself up for saying anything at all... but then again, I know that it was part of my boundaries. Yes, I could have done it a lot better. I'm still not sure what she meant about bullying or being controlling. All I can think is that she has resented me trying to help her. I thought that I was okay as long as I asked permission before giving a suggestion... and she always said yes.
I know that I'm not perfect, and I'm a work in progress in recovery. It's really hard to watch someone you care about sink deeper into addiction... especially because I have been there and know. She was raped this last year by someone she considered her good friend. Recently she got sexually involved with a man in an inappropriate situation. She confided in me that she had not wanted to participate at all. She was ashamed, but she made it into a joke in front of our other friends. I know that letting her go is the healthy action to take, but it does hurt. I worry about her because I don't think she will get any better. The friends that she is around are not healthy.
So, my question is to you, how do you establish your boundaries? And how do you handle it if the person reacts very negatively?
|
|
|
|
Post by veronica on Aug 23, 2011 17:57:39 GMT -8
Hi Sillypoppet: Wow, ouch. A drama-filled life like hers is infectious, guaranteed to create pain for you too when in proximity. And she clearly put her addiction ahead of you on one of your very most important days, showing lukewarm commitment at best. Hanging out and depending upon people we feel compelled to change and save is part of our addiction though, so to me this reads like your addict is running you right now as much as hers. She rightfully pointed out that she's made her decisions, she's been very clear about her value system, yet you are now disapproving of her and calling her on the carpet. Has she ever hidden who she is? Doesn't sound like it. She can rightfully expect you not to be surprised. And I'm assuming she's used to you putting up with this and more. Bonus! Now she can also be mad you instead of ashamed and lash out. Because you're her caretaker she can now accuse you of hurting her and you will then question yourself. Projecting the wrongness on each other is part of our addiction. It's a mad circle. The real question is: why are you exposing yourself to an addict when something has deep meaning for you? An unrecovering addict can't be reliable or think enough of you to put your birthday before an addictive substance. I'm going through the same thing, I feel like a friendship firestarter right now. I'm seeing how little I accepted from others and myself, it's bizarre. I accepted far to little and I haven't been a very reliable friend either, I had no clue what a jerk I was being. I just didn't think what I did mattered. The people who let me know they were hurt by my actions (very few who did) helped me inch me to sanity but they either dropped me or I dropped them in the process out of shame or shock. Emotional honesty is definitely a relationship killer when someone's addict is running. Until she needs you to play your caretaking/persecutor role yet again!  Be kind to yourself, you're expecting your addict to act sane and she isn't. Just keep your addict safe from insanity, per your own program goals. She needs your love right now to transform into a loved being and wants it. The addicted friend wants to use you when she can and is interested, it's the nature of addiction. |
|
|
|
Post by runrunrun on Aug 23, 2011 18:24:41 GMT -8
I feel for you. Its a difficult situation. Do you think God meant it to happen this way? Maybe as a final act of hers to distance yourself from her? As in the last straw? I ask this because maybe this was God's plan to show you that you are hurting yourself staying emotionally involved with someone so unhealthy. Or as in God telling you its time to let her go and move on to more emotionally healthy friends. There is a reason for everything.
The fact that she texted you such foul things on your birthday shows that she is an unhealthy friend for you.
What i would do is distance myself from her as much as possible. Say the prayer of peace for her. Send her peace and then let it go. I too had a friend who was so obnoxious that the thought of her made me furious. And when it started to involve my daughter that was the last straw. But to get rid of the anger I had to send out messages (prayers) of peace to that friend. I too knew that she was struggling with life and understood she had issues. So that helped me to find peace with her and to let her go.
RRR
|
|
|
|
Post by sillypoppet on Aug 23, 2011 21:55:47 GMT -8
RRR, I think it was both suggestions- that she is hurtful to me and that it is time to let her go. I walked away from her before because of similar issues. This time I'm further in recovery, and I don't want to play the game.
I also believe that I may have been doing some care taking with my friend... this dawned on me a little bit later when I was driving to work (before I read this). It's no different than taking care of an alcoholic after they have gone binge drinking. Because of the career I'm going into (counseling), it makes me more susceptible to "helping." I can see when there is something going on- or in my friend's situation that her addiction is spiraling out of control. A couple of weeks ago I ran into her at Barnes and Nobles. I was heading over to the psychology section and didn't even recognize her at first. I was shocked at how strung out she looked.
I'm still struggling with some codependency issues... but, it's getting better.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jacarandagirl on Aug 24, 2011 3:04:55 GMT -8
All the focus you have on her reminds me of someone writing a long post about their PoA. Ultimately it acts as a distration from yourself if you're trying to figure someone else out. I agree it's a boundary thing. Work out what your boundaries need to be with her and put them in place. Then focus back on your own recovery, not hers.
|
|
|
|
Post by nvr2late on Aug 24, 2011 6:18:47 GMT -8
“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”
(attributed variously to Oprah W. or Maya A.)
I like this. And I'd add: Trust what you are learning about yourself. Boundaries are anything you need to do to limit the damage unhealthy others can do to you.
|
|
|
|
Post by sillypoppet on Aug 25, 2011 8:38:56 GMT -8
Agreed... I have moved on from the topic. I guess what I was trying to figure out was how to let my boundaries be known. I wasn't sure if I had been wrong, or if it was the way she was reacting. After all of the feedback, I have a much better idea of what happened. Like I said, I'm still struggling with codependency issues- I always want to save everyone. The people who I have recently lost as friends were people who were disrespecting me. Because I am so shy, losing any relationship in my life can feel detrimental. In the past it has not been easy for me to find new friendships.
In the past week, I actually realized that there are a lot of people who do care about me and like me. I think that as I work through recovery (both LA and social anxiety), I will find that more people want to be around me. There are a lot of positive changes going on in my life.
What I'm a little concerned about is that I don't have a real interest in trying to date. I'm not sure if that is a sign that I'm doing better, or if I have just switched to sexual anorexia. The idea of dating anyone kind of makes me sick... mainly because I know that I'm not ready, and the exact same addicted script would play out. I keep asking myself how I would feel if I were to never get married, and never have a successful romantic relationship... not really sure about it. It sounds awfully lonely to me, especially growing old by myself. But, I know that a lot of people lose their partners and are alone. One of my mentors lost her husband two years ago at Christmas (heart attack). They were both in their early 60's. People have been asking me why I don't have a boyfriend, and whether I'm looking or not (because I'm at the age where everyone does get married)... it makes me feel like the clock is ticking or something. I'm not even sure that I want to have kids. Two of my cousins are getting married this fall, and three of my friends are having weddings. My cousin, who is my age, is expecting his second child with his wife. It makes me wonder if I'm a little behind in life... also, that it's a little scary that I've settled down into the idea that I will not be dating for a very, very long time (I am thinking at least a year or 2). Is that anorexia, or is that just some common sense knowing that I probably can't handle it?
|
|
|
|
Post by Loving My Life on Aug 25, 2011 9:35:00 GMT -8
im 50 yrs old, and no kids and iam comfortable with having no kids, i believe that is what society says women are supposed to do. you just have to be comfortable in your own skin i believe. and just pray about it, more will be revealed. As far as boundaries in the last couple of weeks, i have stood up for myself, and i have lost some quasi recovery friends, i guess i was naive when i got in AA and just assumed everyone was working there progam, but not everyone is, they are sober, but nothing else is different. So im posting here, and trying to find me a new mtg place, and making healthy friends, b/c once i lose my trust for a person, it is hard for me too be a true friend. keep up the good work.
|
|
|
|
Post by LovelyJune on Aug 25, 2011 11:50:32 GMT -8
Silly-- this may sound harsh, but based on what you wrote, you did not have any boundaries. A boundary is like a wall you place around yourself so that others don't "come in" and hurt you; or, conversely, so you don't hurt others.
If I were practicing boundaries with this person here's two scenarios of what I may have done:
1. Invited her, but allowed her to make her own decisions. When you throw a party, some people do not RSVP. It's part and parcel of having a party. You need to accept the fact that even a best friend might choose something or someone else over you. Don't take it personally! That's their loss.
Or...
2. Not invited her. This is a REALLY strong boundary. It says, I do not want the drama of her and her PoA in my life and I am putting a wall around myself and blocking her from me.
What you did, instead, was what she claimed you did: try to control her. The texting part was not a "boundary." It was you trying to guilt her or manipulate her into agreeing to come and stay at your party. Texting was the method you carried this out. But it doesn't sound like there was any boundary there.
Anyway, the bottom line is this: forgive yourself. Don't beat yourself up for this. In the past I have lost good friends over getting angry when they didn't show up to some party I was having. But as I got older, I realized this is very narcissistic. WHo am I that everyone has to come to one of my parties? People have lives! People make other choices. Does it hurt when they choose someone else over you? YES. But then maybe you need to re-evaluate your friends.
Take a look at all your friends. Is there anyone who brings you down, or sucks the life out of you, or uses you or treats you poorly? When you know people like this, you establish boundaries and that means you do one of the following (or even a combination!):
1. Block them completely from your life. SOme people are toxic and you need to get away from them during your own recovery. This is NC. No contact. Friendship over. DOn't even bother picking up the phone. The End. Years later when you are stronger within yourself, you may want to break this boundary. But to take this kind of severe action, it usually means that your relationship with this person is toxic and will always be. Side note: I had an extremely toxic friend. SHe was supposedly my best friend, but she was a raving mad narcissist and was always attacking me for not driving her here or taking her there. I felt so manipulated and so used, that I made the decision to cut off the friendship completely.
2. Block them emotionally and mentally, but still maintain a "business-like" relationship with them. This is the kind of boundary you establish if you work with someone or know you still need to see them from time to time in mixed company (mutual friends, or father of your kids kinda situation). DO not take calls, text or other forms of communication from this person. For all intents and purposes, the relationship is over. But when you see them, you can be cordial, but emotionally, you need to keep your boundaries UP and do not engage in any kind of deep conversation. Side note: This is the kind of boundary I have with my ex. The less we interact, the BETTER!
3. Partial boundary: A partial boundary can be used, usually between friends. For example, if you enjoy spending time with a girlfriend and you two get along well, but every time you go out with her to clubs, you end up smoking, drinking and hooking up. Or you really like someone but every time she's around she's bringing HUGE amounts of drama into your life and you'd rather live more peacefully. If this is the case, put up a partial boundary. No going to clubs, but maybe out to lunch. Or, only hang around Drama Girl when you're not going through too many rough times yourself. Side note: I have a friend like this. She is an amazing woman, but she is prone to drama and she's a very bad influence on me. I have not cut her off completely, but I do keep boundaries up when she's around. I pick and choose, very carefully, when I see her, and I always make sure I have a way out. This way, I am always protected.
There's personal boundaries too.
HOlding back your anger or emotions when it could hurt someone is keeping a personal boundary.
Staying away from a married man or woman is keeping a personal boundary.
Staying away from your PoA when he has ended it, or has moved on is keeping a personal boundary.
Not dating an alcoholic when you know that alcoholics trigger you and cause you pain is keeping a personal boundary.
Not getting involved in someone else's life (i.e. not care taking or worrying or trying to manipulate another's behavior for the sake of taking care of them) is keeping a personal boundary.
Hope this helps!
|
|
|
|
Post by sunshine on Aug 25, 2011 12:37:02 GMT -8
sillypoppet: I feel the same as you where I have no current interest in dating. And I can't determine if this a good thing or if I'm avoiding dating for fear of being hurt. I am a major avoider  I don't want to get hurt again and I'm also afraid of the same addicted script playing out in a new relationship. I have imagined myself single forever and it's sad but also a very possible realization for me. I'm trying to accept that possibility. I am overly independent and after each relationship ends I tell myself "all men lie and relationships hurt! I'm never dating again". Definitely a victim mentality, I know. Usually I do end up meeting someone else, but this time feels different.... I truly do feel completely done with relationships. I am not looking for anyone and giving any guy the cold shoulder when he gives me attention. I feel very angry and hurt. For me, being alone is emotionally easier to deal with. |
|
|
|
Post by runrunrun on Aug 25, 2011 13:40:17 GMT -8
Thanks LJ for posting those. I agree with what you wrote. And I forgot the recommend a book I read once. Its called Boundaries by Henry Cloud. Very highly recommend it.
Silly and Sunshine, I too am in anorexia. Mostly for my own sanity. I am very busy. I need a break from dating. I dont want to deal with the logistics. I am afraid I will attract more unhealthy men. Yeah being alone for me is emotionally easier too. Maybe someday. Then I will really have to use the tools I learned from recovery. For now its better for me to stay single.
Silly, choose whats best for you.
RRR
|
|
|
|
Post by nvr2late on Aug 25, 2011 14:07:26 GMT -8
Another one here who really doesn't want to date anyone. I was all gung-ho a few months ago. Now....just yuck is my basic attitude. I have seen one guy several times and he's nice, he's an ex-pastor and super respectful of me and my situation. We talk, and part ways and it's sort of a nice thing once every couple weeks. I don't see or sense any romance there and when I contemplate seeking romance or a real dating relationship, I just freeze up inside.
I guess we'll all know when we are really ready. If ever :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by sillypoppet on Aug 27, 2011 18:32:46 GMT -8
"Anyway, the bottom line is this: forgive yourself. Don't beat yourself up for this. In the past I have lost good friends over getting angry when they didn't show up to some party I was having. But as I got older, I realized this is very narcissistic. WHo am I that everyone has to come to one of my parties? People have lives! People make other choices. Does it hurt when they choose someone else over you? YES. But then maybe you need to re-evaluate your friends."
EXACTLY! That was my point... I'm very loyal to the people close to me, and I expect the same from them. It's not okay with me when someone who is close to me behaves like that. Not everyone was able to make it, but no one said, "Sorry, I have a date with my PoA (who is an alcoholic, messes around with me, but then refuses to commit)." Some people were sick, some people had to work, and some people just never RSVP'd. What got to me was that the addiction won... it pretty much takes over someone's life and slowly destroys it. I knew that she was having problems, but I never thought that it was going to hurt me (lol, duh). I can't be in recovery, but have a best friend who is not... if I continue being friends with unhealthy people, I will get pulled back in. One of my "care taking" moments with this friend was taking her to SLAA. Afterwards she said, "Well, I'm not like those other women- I only have issues with boundaries." That should have said it all to me.
Call me controlling, but it was my credit card down on the reservation. It was a $20 fee for every person that didn't show up. The restaurant called me three times to ensure the number was correct. I had a right to ensure that everyone who RSVP'd was coming... I double checked with everyone right before, not just this girl. What would have been naive was getting stuck with a bill for people who flaked out on dinner. Then I really would have been smarting.
Anyways, I have let this person out of my life. There was a little grieving period, but I know that she's not well right now (NC). She has been doing this kind of stuff to other people... skipped out at the very last minute at our friend's bachelorette party, and our other friend's wedding dress fitting. The list goes on...
So, I have lost 4 friends over the past couple of months... and gained a lot of new friends. Like I have said, I'm not an outgoing person. I really think it's because LA has less control over me than it did before. I'm a lot happier with my life than I was a year ago. There will always be these little moments, but I think the key is learning from them and changing. Life is an ongoing process... probably for some of you here, I seem really silly. Then again, I'm only 27 and some of you have kids around my age... some of this is because I haven't had the same amount of life experience.
D (my ex PoA) texted me on my birthday. In the past, I would have literally flipped out. I told him thank you, and asked him how his training for deployment was going. All he said was "fine." I felt a little bothered, and then I just let it go. He's out of my life... when I start to slip-up (fantasize) I remind myself of all the reasons why I don't want to be with him... then it's easy to see how it will NEVER work.
I don't think all men are rotten... I just think that if I were to date right at this very moment, I would choose another idiot. It's because I'm not ready... I'm just not sure when I will be "ready" and am a little concerned about everyone around me pairing up (while I'm mellowing out over here by myself). I also think it's a cultural thing too... people feel the need to pair up at a certain age, get the house with a white picket fence, and have kids. I just don't know if I want a domestic life...
|
|
|
|
Post by veronica on Aug 27, 2011 22:09:01 GMT -8
I've been in recovery for decades now and I'm here to say that while there is growth, age is no guarantee of wisdom or being immune to triggers. You're doing great for someone of any age tackling this so meaningfully SP. We all are, and I do believe we're in the minority.
|
|
|
|
Post by sunshine on Aug 27, 2011 22:09:09 GMT -8
"a little concerned about everyone around me pairing up (while I'm mellowing out over here by myself)."
I feel the same way. I keep trying not to compare myself to others, but it's tough.
|
|
|
|
Post by sillypoppet on Aug 28, 2011 14:45:12 GMT -8
Thanks Veronica... I think since LJ has known me on here for awhile she tends to be hard on me. If I didn't know that she was from the other side of the country, I would suspect her to be my old therapist (haha, that's not a diss, just that the way she talks reminds me of her)... or the author of "Eat, Pray, Love" because the way she writes reminds me of her. LJ, you didn't write that book did you? ;-)
I'm doing a lot better... and you're right. People who are working recovery probably are in the minority. I can't imagine going back to being completely unaware that I have LA. I would probably be married, divorced, and with two babies by now. Not to mention no graduate school.
It's hard to watch other people get married, but then again everyone has their own time. I think that my time will come, and I'm feeling a little more hopeful today. My prayer is that God will bless me with happiness, health, and companionship. I always tell him, "Well, if I have to be single, can you at least help me not to be lonely?" I think that's possible.
So ending this whole chapter with the friend, she posted some nasty things about me on her Facebook (on my actual birthday no less- it popped up on my screen when I logged in). It's a very LA tendency, and I think she's trying to get a reaction out of me (since we have not talked). Obviously I haven't deleted her from my account... I'm taking advice from a good friend and NOT responding to anything. He suggested that I only confront her (not by text, lol) when it gets out of hand. Completely agreed that I shouldn't be friends with her anymore... we trigger each other, and that's no good when you're trying to get better.
|
|
|
|
Post by veronica on Aug 28, 2011 20:38:25 GMT -8
SP: if you don't want to defriend her just yet you can block her posts from showing up on your wall to save you from more pain. You click on their name and you get a drop down list of actions and it's one of them. I think there is a whole strange space in Facebook with people who are 'friends' yet have mutually blocked each others wall posts. There should be a name for it, I'm sure there will be. |
|
|
|
Post by sillypoppet on Aug 29, 2011 15:23:53 GMT -8
Lol, yeah agreed... it's a really naive game when you block people from your wall. It's like really, they're going to notice. She posted it on her wall, but it showed up on my main screen when I logged in. The moment I saw her comment, I took her posts and marked "hide all." I'm over most of the hurt... understanding that the addiction caused this makes it easier. I know what to do, which is work on recovery, and leave her alone... regardless if she tries to provoke me by writing mean things.
|
|
I don't want to get hurt again and I'm also afraid of the same addicted script playing out in a new relationship. I have imagined myself single forever and it's sad but also a very possible realization for me. I'm trying to accept that possibility.