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Post by LovelyJune on Oct 19, 2008 4:20:54 GMT -8
I recently learned about boundaries about 9 months ago. I consider the word "boundary" to be synonymous with "maintaining personal values." So...with this last bf, who i began dating 8 months ago I felt all proud and self-confident about not making the same mistakes as before and i was all proud about my new found self-help techniques in helping me live better...so I put up the boundary "no drugs." I don't like drugs. I have an aversion to them. I don't understand when people do them to be like, "hey, man...it's a spiritual thing," or, "it relaxes me." When someone does drugs close to me I experience A LOT of pain and suffering. My PoA did drugs. I want to avoid even the most casual or recreational use at all cost. Probably unhealthy, but that's who I am. There's no rhyme or reason to it. So...I told then bf 8 months ago, "no drugs in my life if you want to date me." I was VERY proud of myself for putting up this boundary. And i held on to it and kept it up and for the most part, he respected the boundary. But eventually, he couldn't live with it and chose pot over me. At first i was humiliated. i felt completely rejected. How could i have been so healthy and maintained my values and STILL be dumped?  How could i have this new found sense of self-love and self-respect and the man of my dreams decides to leave me anyway??? I blamed my boundaries. I thought, if only i wasn't so rigid about drugs. If only i allowed him to be himself i would have been able to hold on to him. He would have still loved me. That thought lasted about a week until i realized the importance of boundaries. Part of recovery is not only making boundaries for yourself but being able to keep them despite the consequences those boundaries create. Certain people, whether you love them or not, will not appreciate those boundaries and they will move away from you. It FEELS like rejection (to an LA, that is) but in actuality, it is your own act of self-love-- it is your own way of weeding out the people who cannot respect and cherish your values. I made a healthy life choice to keep drugs out of my life and when i did that, the consequences were that i would lose the man i loved. Well, which is more important? The love from a man who is on drugs, or the stand that you make for yourself to keep that kind of stuff out of your life? When you create a boundary, remember, you are doing so in HONOR of who you are and what you deserve in life. And that not everyone will respect or like those boundaries and that you may lose people you love. Keep them up ANYWAY, despite rejection. Despite loss. Because they are who you are. They are you, being good to you. And there ARE people out there who will be OK with the boundaries you have- just by virtue of who they are. T |
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Post by Judy on Oct 19, 2008 4:29:35 GMT -8
Thanks telmita!! Yes, lots of talk about boundaries when we are in recovery - but JUST as important, if not more, is weathering the consequences of sticking to those boundaries. That's where the rubber meets the road. That's where we need support from each other and the people in our lives that care.
That is also why I think it is very important in this recovery program to "detox" for awhile before jumping into another relationship. I think it's important to develop one's set of values and standards and boundaries - and talk about them, and feel secure in them - before embarking on a relationship, which is sure to bring up the issues that require those values and boundaries.
Just my opinion.
Thanks again!
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Post by freedman on Oct 19, 2008 6:29:42 GMT -8
Thanks Telmita, words and actions of freedom. To Thine Own Self Be True.
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Post by LovelyJune on Oct 19, 2008 7:16:39 GMT -8
That is also why I think it is very important in this recovery program to "detox" for awhile before jumping into another relationship. I think it's important to develop one's set of values and standards and boundaries - and talk about them, and feel secure in them - before embarking on a relationship, Great point, Judy, and well taken. I am attempting to do just that (choose being single and happy about it) for the VERY FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE  T |
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Chrissy
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Post by Chrissy on Oct 25, 2008 16:43:13 GMT -8
This is a great post and Telmita..way to go...you chose your boundaries..laid them down and stuck to them..as hurtful as it was when he made his decision..yours was essential to you and your life..
I have struggled with boundaries in many areas of my life but the stronger I get in my recovery and seeing that there is a choice my resolve becomes firmer..
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Post by cheri on Nov 7, 2008 23:22:43 GMT -8
telmita: first you did well!
Just want to say when I read this, I feel quite pain, It was a path I went through, recovery happened by setting boundary, At the beginning, we feel we should get some love if we set boundary and demonstrate to others that we have self love, that's many dating book about, it's about " entitlement"
Later on the path, I release that's childish. The mentality still rely on outside things ( for example, love) for happiness, which is co-dependent about. And that mean we do not love ourselves enough to found happiness within.
I like your signature quote, and one of important Buddhism teaching is ¡° freedom from wanting¡±... If we attained this freedom, we would automatically set outside boundary, who ever can not meet the boundary will have no chance to enter our lives...
Blessing
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Post by Rilly on Jan 25, 2009 13:08:30 GMT -8
When you "reset" a boundary there is some responsibility involved. You can't just invite someone to dinner and then, just as everyone is about to be seated, decide that you feel uncomfortable, and say "Sorry, on second thought, I need to redraw this boundary. Could you please leave the dinner table." You DO have the right to set and reset boundaries, and the person leaving the dinner table should respect it!
But you are also responsible if that person can't sleep that night because of the feeling of rejection. Especially, if he doesn't think he crossed HIS boundaries. The rejected person will experience pain. And so will the person that was brave enough to draw the boundary, and stick to it. So there needs to be some acceptance of responsibility. There needs to be sensitivity. It is not only about what consequences WE will face by setting our boundaries, it is also about what consequences the other person will endure as well.
I know that we must concentrate on ourselves while we are trying to recover from an addiction. But being sensitive to others is also important. That is why those that reach out and try to help others, and lose themselves in the service of others may just lose their addiction a little faster in the process.
One of the things I appreciate about being where I am in my recovery is that I can rebound in a day or so when I get hurt. In the past, when love addiction was completely controlling my life, it would take months to recover from an innocent form of rejection. Now I can also imagine what the other person must be experiencing. That is why honoring a boundary is also an act of love.
Rilly
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Post by Susan Peabody on Jan 25, 2009 13:15:26 GMT -8
Great point. This is how I measure my progress as well. We are love addicts for life. There is no cure. There are periods of remission interrupted by slips. But it is never as bad as it was. We are aware of our slips. We bounce back more quickly. We don't make them as often as our recovery progresses. But it is always progress not perfection. Only God is perfect and I don't care what the Bible says, we can never be perfect no matter how hard we try. That stuff in the Bible only sets us up for failure and shame. We all sit in the shadow of God's perfection and are perfectly imperfect. |
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Post by viva on Jan 25, 2009 17:10:07 GMT -8
I see the Bible differently. In the Old Testament, God used some of his most flawed children to do great work. In the New Testament, Christ invited and sat with the tax collectors, prostitutes and (at that time) society's most rtoxiced persons. He scoffed at the Pharisees, who put on a good show of perfection. I look at those flawed people who ended up doing some of God's greatest work and feel inspired -- confident in the hope that I too, with all my LA flaws, will one day walk in God's light.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Jan 25, 2009 17:45:52 GMT -8
Clarification. I love the Bible, especially the New Testament. I just disagree with some of the things it says about women, unconditional love, and homosexuals. I also do not think we should be called to be perfect. Too high a standard. Everything else I love. For more about my feelings of how to blend Christianity and recovery from codependency, here is a list of my Christian articles from my website. brightertomorrow.net/christianarticles.html |
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Post by viva on Jan 25, 2009 18:29:46 GMT -8
Thanks for sharing those articles. I will be reading them. Yes - I do agree with your view of perfection. A state of perfection is something none of us can ever attain on this Earth and we should not put ourselves under that burden of thinking we must move towards such an impossible standard; but through the Grace of our HP, we can strive to love ourselves and others and thus works towards living, to the best of our individual abilities, our best lives.
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Post by Rilly on Jan 25, 2009 18:54:42 GMT -8
Perfection is a direction. And besides we CAN reach perfection in certain areas. I might be perfect about running every morning. Or I might be perfect about brushing my teeth or doing one kind deed to someone each day. Or I might be perfect about not contacting a POA. Those are just some random examples. But just add to these, line upon line, precept upon precept. As far as perfection in everything is concerned, well.... I think we have a long time to work on that, in the Eternal sense. Perfection is an eternal concept. It is the journey in which we are constantly moving in that direction that is important.
And as far as believing certain parts of the Bible and not believing other parts, I think that is up to the individual. Faith is an individual principle. But it is more important to grasp the universal concepts such as the divine nature of a Higher Power. The fact that we can have faith in something greater than ourselves is what pulls us up from our powerless state. So when we ask ourselves who we really are, we embrace the idea that we are, in a sense, the offspring of our Higher Power. It is not our weaknesses that define who we really are. We can tap into our divine nature and be greater than we are now. And again, it is about faith, and our direction.
Rilly
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Post by inthemoment on Aug 29, 2009 15:36:19 GMT -8
Very interesting string. It does make me think very carefully about the boundaries we create. In my work world, we're asked to determine in advance of an interview the qualities we want in a candidate. Once in a while, someone will come in with a skill set I hadn't even thought I could acquire, so I adjust.
The point being, I respect boundaries, but it seems it makes sense to evaluate and be flexible on occasion to ensure we're not unnecessarily giving ourselves an unfair disadvantage. In this case, it's clear this was a deal breaker for Telmita. I could see someone else saying something like "I don't want someone who cracks his knuckles." It may have bugged you in the past, but a terrific person could be passed by, who has a habit we don't like, but in the greater scheme, is still a good catch.
I'm just saying . . . ;-)
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Post by cheri on Aug 30, 2009 23:10:20 GMT -8
I feel the original purity of message from spiritual masters corrupted by patriarchal System of thousands of years. message from enlightened masters might be distorted from one people to another.
In remind me of a few years ago, I listen a speech by a Buddhism monk ( also a woman), She said there was a great Buddha make a vow, the strange vow is " No woman will be in his land". I stand up and ask why. She said: "Woman are impure, therefore, She have to be transformed to man to enter the land". I said :" How could all know- enlightenment Buddha make such foolish vow!" and I left!
Now I look at the experience from another view, I could allow others opinion and be confident of my own. I could keep quiet discernment without judgment---make others wrong. Live with highly truth within will send positive vibration and transform my environment . peace are more powerful than drama when setting boundary
Highly recommend "the four face of woman", I got so much out of the book.
Blessing
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berly
Junior Member
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."
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Post by berly on Aug 31, 2009 14:10:05 GMT -8
Viva, I like what you said. My therapist said "perfect" is moving towards "wholeness" as opposed to not ever making any mistakes or hurting anyone. If we could be perfect this side of heaven, then why would we need God's grace? All I know is that perfectionism thing can be a real form of bondage, and for me it has put me in the position of always trying to be "better" so I have absolutely nothing to feel guilty for. It's exhausting living that way. It's like being on a treadmill which you can never get off. You always think you could have been better, and people who manipulate use that weakness to their advantage. It's easy to offload blame on someone who is on the perfectionism treadmill! I still hold the Bible in the utmost respect. I may not understand all of it or misinterpret it sometimes, but I still believe in my heart of hearts that it reveals the very heart of God.
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Chrissy
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Post by Chrissy on Sept 4, 2009 8:26:10 GMT -8
I am understanding this very well now...
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 22, 2009 4:45:56 GMT -8
I wanted to comment on inthemoment's post. Like I said, I consider boundaries as "values" you set up for yourself. If one of your boundaries is you don't like knuckle cracking, then so be it. If you have an extreme aversion to it, it's your right to create a boundary for yourself. By doing so, you are respecting your own nature and not trying to fit in or be cool about something that doesn't feel "right" to you. This is how I got into trouble to begin with. I BELIEVED all those pot smokers were right and cool and OK instead of BELIEVING in MYSELF. I hated the stuff.
Now, would I not date someone because I don't particularly like blond hair, as opposed to brown? No. That's not really a "boundary." I don't need to keep blondes out of my life so as to PROTECT myself. Boundaries are for the protection of your values. Not just for your more mundane likes and dislikes.
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Post by Angel on Sept 22, 2009 7:56:07 GMT -8
"That is also why I think it is very important in this recovery program to "detox" for awhile before jumping into another relationship. I think it's important to develop one's set of values and standards and boundaries - and talk about them, and feel secure in them - before embarking on a relationship, which is sure to bring up the issues that require those values and boundaries."
I have been thinking this very same thing today. I decided that my disease is still quite strong and until I can find a little more peace in my heart and not be so desperate to get male approval I am best off focusing my attention elsewhere. "Detoxing" for me is really necessary cos I have always been afraid to express my values to a guy. I never asked questions nor put my opinion forward (cos as a child it wasn't valued!) and consequently my partners ran amoke cos I put no restraints on them. Sort of like 'what I don't know won't hurt me so PUHLEASSEE don't let me find out!"
Sick and sad but true!
In fact one of the things that I realised with my last real POA was that I stated to him what my values were "am not unfaithful" (implying I want fidelity in a relationship BUT not really saying it!) and "I know what I want" (did I REALLY?).
No wonder I came across as neurotic! I spoke of things in half truths and inconsistently. He probably saw that but I blamed myself for a while thinking that if I hadn't been so insistent blah blah blah!
Now I realised that firstly:
1. give myself time to think about what my values are and what I want in a partner to match those values
2. spend more time getting to know what his values are
3. don't necessarily BELIEVE him (I tend to take EVERYTHING at face value)
4. give a relationship time to develop to see if there are any inconsistencies in what he/she says and what they actuallly DO.
One example is honesty and fairness. My XPOA told me one morning 'Hey use my roommates toiletries! I do cos his Chinese gf bought them for him!"
I thought it was a pathetic thing to say and he made it worse when later he whined and said 'I gotta get myself a Chinese gf if that is what they do!"
I was so besotted that I just wanted to turn a blind eye to the fact that he agreed to 'steal' someone else's things because he resented them and what they had.
So I now tell myself that I need time to 'detox' and time to slowly afterwards work out whether the person i am interested in REALLY does have the values they profess to have.
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 23, 2009 3:09:46 GMT -8
China Angel, I like your list of things to realize! But I hope you really understand (as I originally did not) that we cannot FORCE our values upon someone else. This is the crux of my initial post. I was so happy to have finally figured out what a boundary was that I imposed upon someone that I should have KEPT OUT to begin with. I wanted to keep my boundary up for no pot, but i also wanted to have a relationship with a guy who wanted to smoke it. You can't have both. Boundaries are for YOU, not the other person. And when you meet someone who has a history of unfaithfulness you cannot expect him to suddenly be faithful to you because that is YOUR VALUE. you have to find someone who shares your same values so that your boundaries can remain in place without any undo stress from your environment.
T
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Post by Angel on Sept 23, 2009 7:44:06 GMT -8
Dear Telmita,
What you say makes sense however, my problem is that I DIDNT' WANT TO KNOW WHAT THEIR VALUES WERE. If that makes sense. I was so weak that I just stated what mine were and was scared to ask or probe cos I was so afraid that I would find out stuff that I wouldn't/didn't like. The last guy I realised I had plenty of clues but I really didn't want to pursue it cos I was HOPING that he was my knight in shining armour.
In effect I was lying to myself by omission. It is perfectly ok for them to have their values but I was leading myself into trouble cos I didn't want to really know what his was in case I had to give up my fantasy.
That last POA, the one I met recently and got away from quickly was very honest and told me that he had been in a relationship with a married women who later divorced. They were together for three and a half years and both were unfaithful. He is here in China to get away from her but is running around sleeping with anyone he can find. He said he KNEW she was a love addict. By default so is he.
This time I was proud of myself. I was very attracted to him but I ASKED all the questions I needed to know and got the answers and realised that he wouldn't change and that the best I can do is be friends.
Who knows maybe I will 12 step him at some stage in the future! My sponsor says that is where true healing takes place when we start to turn our own grief and pain into something that helps others deal with theirs.
Thanks for being there and letting me vent
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Post by inthemoment on Feb 26, 2010 20:02:17 GMT -8
Telmita - sorry for the lengthy lapse in responding here! I agree with you. I think at the time I was reading this several months ago, my head was in a place of trying not to put up artificial barriers, which is something different. Here, you're referring to a clear boundary that is also a "deal breaker." Most frustrating to me is when I can look back and see where I put up with a deal breaker that I justified away in my head - much like your description of pot smoking here. I admire you for sticking to your guns.
Key here: Know Thyself.
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How could i have this new found sense of self-love and self-respect and the man of my dreams decides to leave me anyway???
