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Post by moonlitvein on Mar 25, 2015 10:25:48 GMT -8
Dear Susan,
I understand the concern. I love my life & I admire & adore many things in it too much to let it go. Don't worry.
I asked you about denial because I have been thinking whether I have denied myself a better life that I feel I deserve because of guilt feelings from my father's death 11 yrs back (I am 35 now). I keep thinking whether I am going through the stages of loss? Am I guilty/feeling bad about having those things in life which my mother won't have again?
I don't know yet. It's not clear. Or probably I am not in denial at all.
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Post by moonlitvein on Mar 25, 2015 10:48:25 GMT -8
As far as my childhood is concerned there is one major issue which I can see clearly:
- Unintentional trauma due to health factors (my dad, not me). He battled with it really well. He was strong, confident, and ambitious & instilled the same values in me.
But when he went through the illness a major issue in the family was, that NOTHING should cause him stress. It could be life threatening. This had an important link with my PERFORMANCE in school & EXAMS. This is what adults told me (the child) repeatedly: "You HAVE TO study well & get good marks in the exams. Otherwise your dad will fall sick if you do badly. Don't cause him stress with bad results. OK?" The unsaid statement here is that we might lose him if he is stressed & falls sick again.
When a child is repeatedly told this, the underlying implication that she grows up with through her adolescence & teenage years, is that her dad might die abandoning the family any time. So I actually grew up thinking "something bad" will happen to him, feeling scared & bereaved a lot of times.
My obsession with death springs from this issue & continues even today, so much so that when he actually passed away & I was an adult, my initial thought process went like this: "See, I always thought he would die. That's why now he is gone. It's my fault." My adult brain knew this is not rational but still...
The good thing is, I realize the above very consciously & I want to let it go. I want one of my healthy resolutions to be to forgive the adults. It is ok. They were coping in the best possible way they could to prevent any tragedy.
And the ability to forgive & let go will only result in good self esteem
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Post by ~w~ on Mar 25, 2015 23:02:22 GMT -8
That was so not fair for you to hide your emotions while pretending being happy. That must have been hard. If adults won't take your emotions seriously why wouldn't you as a child? Am sorry about your dad loss. But great thing was you remember him with good spirit. Maybe you was not allowed to grieve then so you can do it now?
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Post by LovelyJune on Mar 26, 2015 2:55:19 GMT -8
The good thing is, I realize the above very consciously & I want to let it go. I want one of my healthy resolutions to be to forgive the adults. It is ok. They were coping in the best possible way they could to prevent any tragedy.
And the ability to forgive & let go will only result in good self esteem
This is a very healthy way of thinking. You can analyze your past to death, and you can pinpoint and blame your caretakers for all the messed up things they did to you, but at some point, you need to move on and look at the positive. You need to say "These are the tools I have to thrive, over here in this pile and these are the tools I am lacking and need to acquire on my own, over in this pile." On top of that, to be able to say, My parents did the best they knew how at the time is courageous, healthy and powerfully motivating. Keep up the great work! |
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Post by Susan Peabody on Mar 26, 2015 15:21:49 GMT -8
My brother was electrocuted when I was 14. At the reception after the funeral I kept busy cleaning. Someone said, my brother had gone to his "just reward." They romanticized death and I really got into this kind of thinking. I anxiously waited for my turn. Especially when I was depressed.
When my daughter was pregnant I wrote letters to her from her baby who was in heaven waiting to be born. Ironic that she died as an infant.
I even dream about dying and going home, and that is the theme of my book, Where "Love Abides."
So I am not obsessed, but certainly fascinated by death and the concept of heaven.
I don't think I am alone. I read in Joseph Campbell's book that people are fascinated by death at an early age. They glorify it. I certainly did. Still do. Can't wait to go home. This is just me, right or wrong.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Mar 26, 2015 15:39:09 GMT -8
Dear Susan, I asked you about denial because I have been thinking whether I have denied myself a better life that I feel I deserve because of guilt feelings from my father's death This is absolutely a possibility. Dr. Phil talks about how events lead to us writing a script that we follow for the rest of our lives. My codependency was born the moment I saw my father cry and I decided it was my job to comfort him because my mom wasn't doing a good enough job. www.drphil.com/articles/article/77 I am not sure which of his books talks about this. Maybe all of them. |
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Post by moonlitvein on Mar 29, 2015 1:21:46 GMT -8
The good thing is, I realize the above very consciously & I want to let it go. I want one of my healthy resolutions to be to forgive the adults. It is ok. They were coping in the best possible way they could to prevent any tragedy.
And the ability to forgive & let go will only result in good self esteem
This is a very healthy way of thinking. You can analyze your past to death, and you can pinpoint and blame your caretakers for all the messed up things they did to you, but at some point, you need to move on and look at the positive. You need to say "These are the tools I have to thrive, over here in this pile and these are the tools I am lacking and need to acquire on my own, over in this pile." On top of that, to be able to say, My parents did the best they knew how at the time is courageous, healthy and powerfully motivating. Keep up the great work! June e e e ...., thanks. This is a powerful lesson that you teach all of us on this board through the metaphor of tools in a pile. And ya, my parents really did their best. They were always there for me. They have secured my future. My dad remains my biggest inspiration & will continue to remain so. He built himself up from scratch. My mother had her struggles too & she coped the best she knew. As individuals they have a value which I love, respect & feel overwhelmed by it (in a good way). A couple of days back a friend was telling me that she was having trouble teaching her child spellings. We discussed how our parents used to teach us spellings, sometimes breaking them up into parts, so that it's easier for the child. It brought back such fond memories.  I didn't reply to your post immediately since I took a distance from this thread for 2/3 days because my mind was processing the information on what I was writing in the exercises. Through my interactions with Susan, so many things came up. A friend who practices meditation in isolation for a certain time period every year said to me that when she comes back again the first few days are difficult since all negativity is released after the meditating is over.While working on self esteem I have realized it's a similar process. Sometimes it will throw me off balance & I will go into a space which might cause pain or sadness. But this is actually temporary. It's like a treatment when toxins are released from the body & it's painful. But it later leaves me clean & detoxified. I think this feeling is normal. I have been feeling kind of free. Hope the book is shaping up well. Best of luck  |
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Post by moonlitvein on Mar 29, 2015 1:31:18 GMT -8
That was so not fair for you to hide your emotions while pretending being happy. That must have been hard. If adults won't take your emotions seriously why wouldn't you as a child? Am sorry about your dad loss. But great thing was you remember him with good spirit. Maybe you was not allowed to grieve then so you can do it now? Thanks Waterlili, Yes I remember my dad as a very positive figure. I did grieve for my loss of course. I also spend a lot of quality time with my mom. But I also buried myself in work. I purposely did not take weekends off sometimes. So many issues got buried underneath work since I turned myself into a workaholic. I thought work, work & work only will solve everything. But no. That's not always the solution. I still love work today with all my heart & I am passionate about it but I also know that hiding things beneath work will not help me. Whenever issues have to be addressed I have to put myself first & sort them. |
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Post by moonlitvein on Mar 29, 2015 10:15:31 GMT -8
My brother was electrocuted when I was 14. At the reception after the funeral I kept busy cleaning. Someone said, my brother had gone to his "just reward." They romanticized death and I really got into this kind of thinking. I anxiously waited for my turn. Especially when I was depressed.
When my daughter was pregnant I wrote letters to her from her baby who was in heaven waiting to be born. Ironic that she died as an infant.
I even dream about dying and going home, and that is the theme of my book, Where "Love Abides."
So I am not obsessed, but certainly fascinated by death and the concept of heaven.
I don't think I am alone. I read in Joseph Campbell's book that people are fascinated by death at an early age. They glorify it. I certainly did. Still do. Can't wait to go home. This is just me, right or wrong.
Yes, I know about Jasmyne & Kathleen too. I also read about your brother in one of your posts in the board. Now that you have mentioned the term 'glorification' in context to death I can relate to it even more clearly.
In my case I glorify myself as a hero in my fantasies who can bear the burden of the death of loved ones with my head held high while everyone will praise me. So after dad passed I have almost always fantasised anxiously about the death of other near & dear ones whose loss I bear with my head held high, handle the crisis & get praised for it.I have broken down in tears due to these vivid fantasies. (In reality, I actually have been praised for being able to bear it)
But at the root of this fantasy is something deeper. It is actually a "look at me, I am so strong" syndrome. Hence, "please appreciate my performance of strength." Deep down this is a need for APPROVAL & APPRECIATION by being GLORIFIED as a STRONG LONESOME BATTLING HERO.
This is linked to childhood again. I am writing this in my next post. |
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Post by Susan Peabody on Mar 29, 2015 10:28:46 GMT -8
Thanks for this. I identify so much with it. It is just amazing how much we think alike. I wonder if we have the same dna?
I think I got a lot of these ideas about the "strong, lonesome, battling hero" when my brother died and they were fed over the years by the books and movies I watched. I read hundreds of books about women who had struggled against all odds like "The Miracle Worker." Also about women missionaries. But they work too hard so I gave that up.
It is ironic how these books and movies initially led to my love addiction and now feed my desire to be a survivor helping other survivors. God does not waste anything. Last week they published my story in a book about successful women survivors. I don't know whether to be embarrassed or proud.
You are so articulate.
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Post by moonlitvein on Mar 29, 2015 10:52:28 GMT -8
My parents, while they were very loving & caring; (I know I keep repeating this, but it's really true. Perhaps I am having a guilt somewhere that I am writing like this so openly for the first time. But there is no blame game here...I am trying to understand my situation here & hopefully not repeat a pattern of learnt behaviour)... they were also very critical at times.
Dad was responsible for my study schedules & everything else almost entirely. Most of the time when I would write an essay or an answer for anything, he was never fully satisfied, criticising the structure or language or stressing the need for imagination. I remember getting irritated that why he couldn't be happy once with what I wrote or why he wouldn't support me when it was a me versus a teacher's complaint.
When I did something wrong & I cried I was often scolded: " Why are you crying? Aren't you ashamed to cry?"
But now I am glad I cry. I feel lighter when I cry alone. The tears of the scar clan are cleansing.
My mom was once having this conversation with my two sis in front of me (the child). She was referring to me saying "She doesn't even consider me to be a human being." To this my sisters replied very haughtily : "But why shouldn't she consider you to be a human being?" The silent question to me was "How dare you?" I have absolutely no memory of what I had done because of which I was facing this. It's completely wiped away from my memory. But these statements remain in my mind till today. I vividly remember the guilt, shame & the fear.
Today I understand that my mom must have been dealing with some pent up problem inside her & probably projected it to me.
I realize this has resulted in a lack of approval/appreciation to some extent at an early stage which affected my self worth. The result of all this was either I am NOT PERFORMING WELL (in studies) or I am a BAD PERSON.
No wonder I draw my self worth by quietly craving approval. No wonder I get my hit from fantasies about men & PoA who "look at me perform" well in a job, or at a social gathering,or cracking a joke, or protecting someone!
I don't know how to appreciate myself fully & hence my own self worth has been affected. But with time I will get there. I have a lot more to write on what I've been reading but will do that later since I am feeling really overwhelmed & I'll have to step away for sometime & come back later.
Mother, Father, I love you in spite of everything and I want to affirm that.
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Post by moonlitvein on Mar 29, 2015 11:18:17 GMT -8
Thanks for this. I identify so much with it. It is just amazing how much we think alike. I wonder if we have the same dna?
I think I got a lot of these ideas about the "strong, lonesome, battling hero" when my brother died and they were fed over the years by the books and movies I watched. I read hundreds of books about women who had struggled against all odds like "The Miracle Worker." Also about women missionaries. But they work too hard so I gave that up.
It is ironic how these books and movies initially led to my love addiction and now feed my desire to be a survivor helping other survivors. God does not waste anything. Last week they published my story in a book about successful women survivors. I don't know whether to be embarrassed or proud.
You are so articulate.
It's so true that nothing is a waste. I was thinking in the evening about how I just cannot get rid of the fantasy & then asked myself : What do I want? Do I want to remain immersed in my fantasy or should I use the fantasy as a tool to create & release my pent up energy. I want to choose the 2nd one. Easier said than done. But once I start, I might continue.
You never know about the DNA! It's a tricky thing! Maybe we are related through some distant relations of our ancestors
I think deep down we all are looking towards being valued as individuals by others in society. That's what the struggle & suffering is ultimately about.
I have drawn my inspiration from reading about women during slavery, women during Partition in India, the suffrage movement, the 19th century authors who were not even allowed to publish with their real names! They wrote with pseudonyms - all male names. The Bronte sisters, George Eliot - all of them had to do that.
When I think of all these women in earlier generations, I realize how lucky I am to belong to this one. So much path has already been laid out for me.
Thanks for calling me articulate. I suffer from anxiety about writing sometimes. Though I know there's absolutely no reason to be anxious about expressing in this board! |
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Post by moonlitvein on Mar 30, 2015 21:32:10 GMT -8
Last week they published my story in a book about successful women survivors. I don't know whether to be embarrassed or proud.
Sorry Susan ,
I missed the image of the book cover - Tales of Women Survivors. Realised that just now.
And congrats.
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Post by moonlitvein on Apr 5, 2015 8:28:56 GMT -8
I have been thinking whether I have denied myself a better life that I feel I deserve because of guilt feelings from my father's death 11 yrs back (I am 35 now). If I am saying that I perhaps deserve a better life then I need to define it. What do I mean by a better life? What is it that I deserve & not REALLY allowed myself to have?
1. A healthy relationship & marriage 2. My own apartment 3. Take certain decisions regarding home which would make me happy (but I have been prevented from doing so & I have given in; this has affected my SE that I couldn't hold my ground & didn't have the power to do so at certain times) 4. Moving to another city to have another job 5. Moving abroad perhaps for a long time period 6. Travelling & spending more time with certain people (I almost always let guilt/uncertainty creep in & give in & end up not retreating.)
It's possible to do & have all of the above. 1 & 5 is not possible at present. 5 for practical reasons like finance & not denial & 1 is not really a concern now. I have myself to make healthy first. And as I am learning here, 1 has to be a healthy want and not a need. Even if 1 never happens I ought to be okay even if it gets really hard many times. I will have many other healthy relationships.
The factors are perfectly doable & I should have them & many more things. Why deny myself? I will actually have a healthier relationship with mom if I do these things & she will actually be happy if I am too, instead of letting yrs of frustration creep in. |
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Post by moonlitvein on Apr 8, 2015 2:10:37 GMT -8
The Self & The Core:
Eight months back I couldn't even have imagined that I would reach a place where I will no longer believe in having an unexplained invisible bond with my PoA and being connected to him for a lifetime even if we don't meet again. Today the PoA is far, so far away from my awareness that he has become a tiny dot.
And what is drawing near me, very close to me is The Self. Today I understand (even if not fully & wholly) that The Self is somewhere perceived as a problem. We don't want to deal with the problems of The Self. That's why we take The Self to external agents - Love, Romance, PoA, TV, fried foods, romantic novels, fantasy world, internet, mindless phone calling to release stress and many many other things which perhaps takes The Self away further. It goes away because it then latches on to all or many of these above things & refuses to let go. I know now why it latches on for so long.
Now in my attempt to find my Self when I draw it close, it is sometimes right here, standing & touching the edge of my nose. And I don't like the pile of problems I see & I sometimes feel tired that The Self needs to be corrected. And it cannot be corrected through the above external agencies.
When I was very young my closest friend told me while receiving advice from me, "Your core is very strong. Somewhere deep within, you are very secure within your core." Today I see it like this. The Self & the Core are actually one, it is a togetherness. But somewhere down the line the Self perhaps detaches from it's very Core & moves towards other planes. And it is then so difficult for it to find it's way back to this Core because it loses it's way & latches on to other things, feeling happy, staying there. It doesn't want to find it's way back since it's so comfortable to be falsely soothed by manifold factors.
Even when The Self wants to, it doesn't know the path back. The path has to be carved out for it to return to it's Core. And that's hard. When I first saw the diagram of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, Self Actualization at the tip of the triangle stuck with me. The triangle itself is a path. It is a path of the Self to the Core which is perhaps the process of reaching self actualization. Some people reach it, some don't. In spite of being tired I want to bring my Self closer & let it merge with my Core. It is about bringing it home. I wish to find my way back to my core. |
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Post by fufill on Apr 8, 2015 15:36:08 GMT -8
I hear a psychotherapist say that L.A. people are very passionate and creative. Any L.A. finds that to be truth?
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Post by moonlitvein on Apr 8, 2015 21:01:17 GMT -8
Yes. Many love addicts are truly creative & very passionate people. One of the best examples right in front of you is Susan Peabody herself who has opened this board for us. She is an author, she helps & counsels people, she travels around the world to help people. She has written about love addiction in her book Addiction to Love: Overcoming Obsessions & Dependency in Relationships; She has a Recovery Workbook for Love Addicts & Love Avoidants; The Art Of Changing & Where Love Abides, which is a beautiful allegory.
If you read more about the members here you'll find that there are many more creative people out here who are searching & finding their creativity in their own way. The key is to understand what each of us really love & then find our creative channels through that. |
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Post by moonlitvein on Apr 9, 2015 8:31:09 GMT -8
Exercise 5 (On Attitude):Contd:(from previous page)
How is my attitude? In this exercise I have to make a list which are an indication of my attitude towards myself & others:
Do you have a desire to share with others who are less fortunate?
Yes I do have this desire. In the past few years I think about how I can contribute to society in my own way, however small it may be. That doesn't matter. Lately I have been thinking about sponsoring or helping a child in some way.
Are you fearful most of the time?
Extremely. I'm ridden with fear and anxiety.
- I fear unknown men. I fear being touched & harassed.
- I'm scared to take mom out, fearing that something terrible will happen & I will not be able to "protect" her
- I'm anxious about most delivery boys. I have to steel myself & my defences are very high when they come to deliver something
- I'm extremely scared that I will never ever get a job again. Even while I write this I'm feeling superstitious about writing this sentence. I am applying for jobs & yet I fear "What if someone calls me with an offer?" It is so contradictory.
- I fear administrative offices & bank spaces, feeling that I will not be able to get the job done.
- I am uncomfortable about travelling in crowded modes of transport
- I have developed travel phobia.
Do you do more for others than you should?
This is a trait I used to have, but thankfully I have grown up a lot in this aspect & I don't always go out of my way to do things for others. I feel it is completely justified to take my time & do my thing (whatever it might be, irrespective of the other person's thoughts). I always used to go out of my way to do things for my boyfriends. But I have gradually learnt to say No (especially with men & often also with family members now). Which means, I do know how to start setting my boundaries.
Do you value the opinions of others more than your own?
I never used to because I have always been pretty much self sufficient & secure with most of my actions & decisions. But over the last couple of yrs as I have gone through some life changing decisions, this has affected my own opinions & decision making capacities. I am finding my footing back. I am at a better place now. But I still often have to make a panic call sometime to a dear friend or a relative to confirm if my opinion & decision is correct. But I am much more conscious of this now. I am trying to return to my earlier independent-healthy-decision-making mode.
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As I am reading Pulling Your Own Strings: Taking Control of Your Life by Dr. Wayne W Dyer, which is about the victim mentality & the victimisation trap that we all fall into on a day to day basis, I realize so much of this tendency in me. Many of the above things make me fall into this trap. Victimisation is not necessarily external. It is internal. The moment I think someone might say something unpleasant or will pick up a fight with me, I am becoming a victim even without the occurrence of the incident. I victimise myself by doing this. I realize how much I am victimised by my own fear & anxiety.
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As I do these exercises & write on this board I am amazed how much I keep mentioning everything that has happened in the last 11 yrs (death, change, success) or that how I have to move forward. I keep going back 11 yrs since that was a turning point with the loss of a parent. By doing this I am either staying in the past or in the future. I am not in the present, really. This dawned on me today. Have brought myself back to the present situation. |
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Post by fufill on Apr 29, 2015 16:54:30 GMT -8
I think this has to do with my self esteem. The other day my kids and I were talking and through them I have come to realized that I have let myself go. Let me explain: I used to take care of me.. My hair, nails, skin, etc my whole appearance. I guess for years now I have ignored myself taking care of me externally ( not that I don't need too internally) through looking at an old picture of myself in my living room to which my sixteen years old boy said " mom when my friends ask me what does my mom look like I showed them that pic which I have on my phone is what I show them) yes I looked well taking take of and beautiful in that picture. My twelve year old daughter said it more like an here it is mom way but not an a way to hurt me but I believe to help me and also to tell me that I needed to go back on taking care of myself. It made me realized how I stop " self care". Well since then I have made a lists of way to self care and I gave already check one on my lists. I want to thank my children. I love them so much.
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 1, 2015 6:48:58 GMT -8
Inventory:
While doing an inventory of my past relationships with men I have found that the first three relationships have been critical in giving rise to a certain pattern of behaviour. Many things that have happened in these relationships are contributors towards low self esteem and an unhealthy pattern of behaviour.
Man#1 -
I was 12 yrs old when I began to "imagine" him as my boyfriend. I had a fantasy (make believe) relationship with him in my head for 2 years. Our actual relationship began when I was 14 and continued for 6 years. He was kind, warm, funny, jovial & cracked a lot of jokes. He was also 2 yrs older than me and gave me a lot of advice on how we should behave well, be good students, get good grades etc. I now realise that he was kind of, on a high horse.
But why did I really love him/choose him as my BF?
Because all my friends around me at that age were starting to have affairs. They were full of stories about outings with their BF's and love letters & kisses and what not! I wanted to have my romantic story too. He was available. I thought he was kind of handsome & convinced myself that I loved him.
I experienced acute separation anxiety (at least that's how I understand it right now) with him in two ways:-
1) He left me (perceived as abandonment by me acutely) for another girl for a short time period but came back to me. But this period was acutely painful & ridden with anxiety, sense of loss, loneliness, trying to get him back, and crying spells for me. I tried clinging to him through various efforts & in order to re establish the relationship with him for a long time.
2) I moved to a new city. Experienced a huge sense of loss when this process was happening. Period fraught with anxiety. We continued a long distance relationship till I turned 18. I broke it off at 19. I did it in a very cruel & immature manner. Suffered from a huge amount of guilt because of it for yrs (till my early 30's). I think this guilt turned toxic & I became shameful that I could be such a cruel person. Only later did I realise that this break up would have happened even if I stayed within the city. It was a matter of time. It wouldn't have worked out since we were incompatible.
Red Flags: He was:
1) Clingy
2) Moralising & preachy/black & white thinking about right & wrong
3) Demanded that we marry within a certain age
4) Demanded that I spend more time with him
5) I felt suffocated within the relationship & yet I felt a bit inhibited about speaking up & reasoning with him.
6) I wanted to run away. I wanted out.
7) Most importantly he put me on a pedestal. I was the perfect, knowledgeable, mature girl for him, who was an avid reader, whose opinion could not be wrong & who always gave the "right' advice. He never looked at me. He looked at the ideal.
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 1, 2015 7:47:53 GMT -8
I broke it off with Man#1 out of the fear that I will be forced to marry him before I could explore my life in my own way. After this I stayed single for 4 yrs. During this time I had a great education, loved college, met people, stayed on my own, met my best friend. BUT while the spell was broken with Man#1, my dream to have my romantic story continued it's journey with me. Man#2 - I was 22 yrs old when I met him. Had a relationship for 3 yrs. Perceived him as a "senior, experienced" guy since he was already out of college & into his first job. Very friendly, funny, jovial, cracked loads of jokes.
What did I like about him?
Well obviously the above two factors. And the fact that he wrote poetry. He used to have a small poetry notebook around with him & it floored me that he asked me to contribute my own writing in his notebook.
- He made me feel important. The attention made me feel good.
- He said that I am his 'ideal' version of a woman.
- He loved that as a person I was so "well read" already at a young age & I was so "rooted" to my culture. Made me feel I am so appreciated.
- I felt that my romantic story is finally coming true with him.
Red Flags -All of the above 3 points show that I was being put on a pedestal.Wanted me to be more like his mother.Tried to fit me into his lifestyle of partying,pubs, large group of friends. Years later I realized him to be a wannabe Was terribly bothered about how we looked as a couple (appearance oriented). Could not conceive a situation where he could introduce me to his parents.
He broke up with me under a very lame pretext & preferred to not really believe my side of the story. I have realised later that he actually needed this as an excuse to finally break up.
My mistake during the entire relationship?
I remained non communicative most of the time. I used to remain silent even during conflicts. Why? Because I was afraid of speaking. I felt "What if I say the wrong thing to him?" I felt the right words won't come out. I was afraid that I won't be able to say anything"intelligent"!
The break up left me with a huge sense of abandonment. HUGE.
I also had a genuine sense of being wronged. I felt I couldn't stand up for myself & hence blamed myself for being weak and incapable. For the longest time period I believed that it was my inability.
What felt even more wrong was that he continued to call me during later years with his usual "friendly" manner. I have always hated him (or hated myself actually? self loathing? because I could not stand up for myself? and that has primarily affected my self esteem so much. But I realize I have my share & responsibility in it. I have to be able to stand up for myself and speak my mind.
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 1, 2015 10:00:53 GMT -8
Man#3 - I was 24 yrs old. Relationship for 4 yrs. Entered into relationship with Man#3 immediately after the previous break up. Clearly a rebound. He was a "ladies man", a casanova. I was hardly his "type". SW. Distant, egoistic, gave himself an "aura" by being unavailable for the women in general after he was with them for a few days/weeks. Controlled his "relationships" with the women by withdrawing from them & then going back to them whenever he decided to.
Knowing all this - I wanted a "casual" fling (for the 1st time in my life), which became a full blown relationship.
Why did I go for it, knowing who he was/ what his behaviour was like?
Well, it boosted my ego that he gave me attention, warmth & kindness & appreciated me, respected me! instead of the other women even if I was not one of those "model, perfect looking" women. He did not repeat his "usual pattern" with me as he did with the other women. And that felt good.
He was also a "senior" at the workplace. Taught me a lot of work. But with time he looked up to me as a "good" girl with a "good" character. In other words, he put me on a pedestal again by comparing me with the "loose" girls he would usually hang around with.
This was the 1st time where I think I consciously learnt game playing. I played "unavailable" in a subtle manner by not "pressurizing" him through phone calls etc. precisely with the hope that he will come to me. Which he did. Now I realize that he probably didn't feel "controlled" by me like he did with the others. BUT his coming to me gave me a sense of control subconsciously. The fact that he left the other women eventually and stuck with me for good boosted my ego & gave me my false sense of self esteem.
As far as red flags are concerned, almost everything was a red flag here. I chose to ignore it since it felt so warm, affectionate, caring along with a really great physical relationship. But when it came to responsibilities he was actually an avoidant and got angry when left with no choice but to take care of certain aspects in the relationship.
There were times when he did leave & I did reduce myself to begging him, asking him to forgive me, following him down the street crying. These acts have left me with a sense of shame which perhaps affected me in the subsequent yrs of my life.
25 yrs - A life altering situation took place for me at this point of time. My father passed away.
We had to undertake a long distance relationship since I came back to my native place. He eventually broke up with me over the phone 2 yrs later when I was dealing with the death of my grandmother. Strangely I was able to let go quite easily.
In all subsequent relationships after this period in my life (barring one, I think) I have been able to let go so easily. As if I was so good at letting go.
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 28, 2015 6:59:12 GMT -8
Man # 4 -
Age 26 - Cheated on Man#3 with Man#4. What got it going? I think my first trigger was his intimate tone over a phone call a day after we first met! That's all I needed to trigger me? That naive! This realization is doing horrible things to my self esteem. But the important thing is to realize my tendency to get swayed.
What did I like in him? Again perceived him as a very "capable" administrator,worker. Felt that he was knowledgeable with a good academic record. Why? I don't know. I must have projected something within me onto him.
The truth/red flags: 1) He gossiped 2) Had a negative mindset 3) Huge inferiority complex, suffered from social anxiety 4) Hypocritical 5) Crossed boundaries all the time by being demanding or making offensive remarks 6) Clingy, needy and dependant - most of which I totally tolerated, thinking it was OK.
Finally I put an end to it after a year knowing he was - irresponsible, complacent and an avoidant. Torchbearer (A much later realization). |
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 28, 2015 7:29:15 GMT -8
Man # 5 - Age 28. Co worker. Office Spouse. Fantasy relationship for yrs inside my head. The first trigger was just one look across a room. Excruciatingly painful experience ( the next painful thing to happen after my father's death). Why did I feel that he was a potential partner?- We shared and talked about many issues (books, movies, life, parents,family etc) - Thought we were compatible - Awed & blinded by his seniority & experience I felt I could "learn" a lot from him. Couldn't see any flaws. "He's a senior experienced guy. Writes SO well! So great at his job! Why can't I write/think like him." (My god I had such a blindfold on. He in fact is the opposite of the above)
- I loved that he was jovial and cracked jokes so much
I felt jealous about his attention to another female co worker & stopped talking to him for a while. He turned cold turkey on me for 4 yrs. Red flags:- Behaved almost like a SW sometimes - Pretense
- Wannabe/fake behaviour- Inability towards forgiveness & giving a 2nd chance (not just in my case but generally) - Passive aggressive - Lazy/Complacent (not applying his mental capacity to the fullest) - Putting his own work/responsibilities on others like juniors or co workers (absolutely hate this quality). Shows avoidance. I have taken this rejection day in and day out. Thought I could handle the pain. It would make me strong. Classic addict tendency towards tolerance for pain and suffering. The Love turned to hatred and eventually rage. Even today I feel it. It lingers (perhaps because of his non acknowledgement of feelings, not saying anything verbally). In other words I feel rejected & abandoned. |
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 28, 2015 7:47:53 GMT -8
Return of Man#1 - Age 29/30 (approx) - A triangle.
- Loved the attention he gave me.
- Took responsibility (I felt rescued/taken care of)
- Huge hope that he would leave his wife for me
- A torchbearer and a co dependant. He thrived on the need to be needed
- Clingy/Needy
- Emulated me/put me on a pedestal (just as he did when we were young) - Scheming (got my number after yrs from someone else's phone & kept sending me sms es anonymously) - Tendency to impress
- No sense of identitySo why did I stick!?
- Liked the fact that he was "successful" in his professional field
- Hope for a man/BF relationship & family
- Being taken care of
- Fun in the evening, driving around in his car, snacking/binging together in the evening. Being dependant on this "fun" on a daily basis. Good grief... this is by far the most unhealthy one. Everything... everything is a d@*n red flag. This whole post should be marked in red! Anything common or any compatibility factor?
None. I can't find any.
After 2 yrs I decided to break it off & expressed my decisions to not lead this double life anymore, he did not respect it, took it lightly & kept making contact, cyberstalked (still does I think - had to block him). (I hate this. It's my biggest trigger now)
Till today he is triggered by me if he sees me by any chance etc. I now know I am his PoA. I am equally to blame & accept my share & responsibility in the scheme of things. |
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 30, 2015 0:05:03 GMT -8
Man # 7: Age 33. - Triangle
- Senior at work/taught me some thing I wanted to learn/advisor- Could talk about common interest issues (books, cinema, family etc.)- Great work relationship - Responsible & punctual - Warm & kind - Much more open/honest communication between us - I completely projected my anger onto him in the most immature manner Red flags:- Excessive criticism - Speaking behind people's back in spite of claiming he doesn't do so - Hypocrisy in terms of marriage - Wanting a relationship but never wanting to marry ( perceived as abandonment by me) - Low self esteem Broke up the relationship,crashed & burnt after this 2 yrs back. Decided to be single after this. Have a warm cordial relationship with him at present. We share like friends. Time will tell how this "friendship" will work out. I harbour no ill feelings for him anymore. |
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 30, 2015 6:40:09 GMT -8
Man 8 - Current PoA -
- Fantasy Relationship only, for 1 year (age 35)
- Much senior to me in professional experience as well as in age
- Professionally very successful
- Had tried to chase me for a while in the past. When I showed my interest yrs later his interest died down after a few sms, chat, phone calls,paying compliments to me etc. (SW ?)
- Indulging in excessive criticism about others often, thereby feeling good about himself in the process. (This is my hunch)
- Casanova /flirtatious tendencies
- Tendencies to call or sms only at night
- Alcoholic (Not sure. Perhaps.)
- Avoidance - when I have brought up certain issues attempting honest and open communication.
- Disregarding when I sent a mail a yr back discussing issues & areas of interest. Did not reply back in spite of saying he would. (This left me feeling rejected & angry & with fantasies for a year till I started recovery & slowly things are improving now).
What did I really want, had there been a relationship in reality?
1) Sharing and talking about common areas of interest a lot
2) Working with him professionally & learning from him
3) A good physical relationship
4) Being appreciated for my intellect & as a woman
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 30, 2015 7:19:33 GMT -8
So how is the above 8 posts consisting of an inventory of my relationships related to Self Esteem/contributed to LSE? What pattern has emerged from this inventory?
1) False sense of self esteem through attention & appreciation & entering a relationship solely because I was liked by the man.
2) Feeling rejected & abandoned all the time (this clearly stems from my childhood) when most of the time it is not really so.
3) LSE due to:
a) shame:
- Often living in fantasy and not reality
- resorting to begging & crying sometimes
- inability to openly communicate (this also signifies a tendency to avoid or run away due to fear - "Would I be able to say the right thing?/What if I say something naive)
- Naivety/naiveity (realisation of it after every failed relationship/getting triggered at the drop of a hat)
- Leading a double life through triangle which I hated, which did not feel right & yet I did it.
b) toxic guilt
c)Superiority complex (liking it when I am better & "knowledgeable" than the guy in any aspect or area)
d) Inferiority Complex (fear of men, feeling that they are better since they are "senior, more experienced". Is this a complex or am I looking for my father?)
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Post by moonlitvein on Aug 30, 2015 8:04:00 GMT -8
So what are the characteristics of these men I have been/get attracted to since 12 to 34 yrs?
Is this my Imago?
Positive traits:- Jovial,funny,good natured - Well developed intellectually in my areas of interest (writing, books, films, photography,painting, media & technology, philosophy, understanding of human nature) - Kindness - Warmth - Affection - Friendly - Responsible - Punctuality - Good advisor on practical matters - Good work ethics
- Hard workers Negative traits:
- Tendency to idealise me/ build an image instead of looking at the person holistically - Clingy/ Needy/ Demanding - Often some of them have had no sense of boundaries - Disrespectful attitude / offensive remarks - Controlling - Wannabe - SW - Avoidants - Torchbearing - Co dependency - Hypocrisy - Excessive criticism or gossip - Complacent - Passive Aggression - Tendency to impress
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Post by Susan Peabody on Sept 1, 2015 13:43:20 GMT -8
Your Imago is a composite of your primary caretakers and someone who manifests your own potentional [opposites attract]
My dad was alcoholic and weak. That is my Imago. Before recovery I married alcoholics. Then in AA I dated sober alcoholics. Then I started a career helping alcoholics. The Imago kind of hangs in here.
In my book Addiction to Love, I have a list of New Imago traits
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