Post by midnightcry on Mar 17, 2015 17:40:56 GMT -8
I feel so hopeless, after working so hard at recovery and just end up in the same spot, chasing a love avoidant. I don't know if there is any real treatment. I've done every program there is counseling you name. I feel so broken, unloved and alone.
hi, so sorry to heasr about your struggles right now, i really do. I can relate in you at some certain point. But pleas, just hold on. Someday all the answers will pop out the way you never least expected them.Sometimes, you just nedd to relax and have faith that things will work out.
Post by midnightcry on Apr 8, 2015 17:15:14 GMT -8
Thanks for the encouraging thoughts.I have got some books from the library to work with, I'm not sure what to buy how much to buy.I have done inventory and inventory in AA and Al-Anon and Courage To Heal and all kinds of groups. I have realized that I don't fear abandonment, I fear rejection which has been a part of my life since I was young. Abandonment means you have a relationship to work with, I have no male relationships, none for years and years. I'm not really sure that I am a Love Addict I may have something else wrong with me that is undiagnosed.I try to have relationships but nothing ever works, he's running and blowing me off before it even starts.I have a handful of recovery friends that I have had for years. IDK, I really can't take anymore. I'm older now, I'm in the last phase of my life and have not had any love in my life. Removed from my family at age 10 and lived in group homes and a foster home.I went in the army reserve, went to nursing school and became a nurse, worked. Had a relationship with a love avoidant that was horrible and lead to drinking and a suicide attempt.Been in recovery ever since. This is the end result, I've been sober 21 years. I have done no relationships in 21 years.I just made a new recovery friend who is a love avoidant.I'm so done.
Post by midnightcry on Apr 11, 2015 4:27:24 GMT -8
Friends, I'm in a better place today and I have made progress, lot's of progress!! Thanks to my counselor and recovery friends. I got spun around by violating the NC rule after 21 years, I allowed the other person to make amends. The good news is I do not have one desire of any type for this man! That is progress!! Thanks for support everyone.
What if I come to a point in my life I really don't and cannot believe in God or Hp? After a decade of reading Bible and believing I have finally come to a point I have to say I'm an atheist. What then?
jasmema, that's OK. Believing in the power of the universe is just as wonderful. There's a great excerpt from "grief Without Belief" and it goes like this...
You want a physicist to speak at your funeral. You want the physicist to talk to your grieving family about the conservation of energy, so they will understand that your energy has not died. You want the physicist to remind your sobbing mother about the first law of thermodynamics; that no energy gets created in the universe, and none is destroyed. You want your mother to know that all your energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her beloved child remains with her in this world. You want the physicist to tell your weeping father that amid energies of the cosmos, you gave as good as you got.
And at one point you'd hope that the physicist would step down from the pulpit and walk to your brokenhearted spouse there in the pew and tell him that all the photons that ever bounced off your face, all the particles whose paths were interrupted by your smile, by the touch of your hair, hundreds of trillions of particles, have raced off like children, their ways forever changed by you. And as your widow rocks in the arms of a loving family, may the physicist let her know that all the photons that bounced from you were gathered in the particle detectors that are her eyes, that those photons created within her constellations of electromagnetically charged neurons whose energy will go on forever.
And the physicist will remind the congregation of how much of all our energy is given off as heat. There may be a few fanning themselves with their programs as he says it. And he will tell them that the warmth that flowed through you in life is still here, still part of all that we are, even as we who mourn continue the heat of our own lives.
And you'll want the physicist to explain to those who loved you that they need not have faith; indeed, they should not have faith. Let them know that they can measure, that scientists have measured precisely the conservation of energy and found it accurate, verifiable and consistent across space and time. You can hope your family will examine the evidence and satisfy themselves that the science is sound and that they'll be comforted to know your energy's still around. According to the law of the conservation of energy, not a bit of you is gone; you're just less orderly. Amen.
But most importantly, you are not a god. You are not a superhero. You need to know, understand and accept that there are powers that are greater than yours. This may help you to "let go" and turn your troubles over to the universe. I do not subscribe to the 12-Steps idea of Powerlessness, however. I felt and still do feel that recovery is in my hands. That helped me.
What if I come to a point in my life I really don't and cannot believe in God or Hp? After a decade of reading Bible and believing I have finally come to a point I have to say I'm an atheist. What then?
You have every right to believe or not to believe. It is up to you. It cannot be forced. The God I know is a perfect gentleman though, who gives us freewill or freedom of choice.
I am actually like you before for a very long time. I read and read the Bible and felt zero about it. I did not understand a word it says. I have worshipped anything but the true and living God. Until I have met a cancer survivor who has shared her faith with me, and my former avoidant ex got changed dramatically too. I have learned that the first step is to receive God as my personal Lord and Savior and only then it will become real and meaningful. Last year also, Joyce Meyer has helped me to know God better. So I am wishing you well. May you find the truth for yourself.
Thank you, codenomore. I appreciate your reply. I guess, I'll have to figure out my recovery or change without god, at least not a Christian one (professor Bart Ehrman convinced me, so I cannot believe in Christian God, even though I'd love to). However, isn't there a way to heal from torch bearing also for, say, convinced atheists or at least semi-agnostics? The thing is, I'm 37 years old, I'm quite goof looking, but so very alone. Today it is a holiday in my country, very nice sunny spring day and I have literaly no one to spend it with. I have no children, my friends have their families, my poa enjoys his life 1000 km away, and I am crying, wanting to kill myself. I'm sorry for that. You, codenomore, helped me with wiring months ago. I'm the one of 8 years waiting and hoping.. Now i simply have enough of this life. Also, at my work - which I enjoy a lot - I have very few hours. Consequently I don't earn much and I cannot travel. I feel as a loser, watching my peers what they have already achieved (families, children, houses, cars...And happiness). Venting now, I guess. However, realy, I don't want to exist anymore.
I remember you. You are a great, lovable person. I will get back to you here because I am finishing a task right now. I sincerely believe that you are special who deserves an undivided attention. So I will make time for you and read and respond thoroughly later. Take care.
As an atheist you must know that without life there is no hope. So, I hope that you keep trying to fight through the loneliness. We are all alone. We are all born alone and die alone. And many, many, many of us live alone. You are not alone in your aloneness
If that does not give you comfort, know that the more work you put into recovery from love addiction (and again, you do not need a "God" to recover), the better you will feel. No one becomes more naive after a few years of education. You can't NOT get better. So please....have hope. We are all here for you.
Post by midnightcry on Apr 27, 2015 9:38:04 GMT -8
God was on my resentment list when I first made it into recovery so I understand not wanting to go there. For me the recovery text book was my higher power and the people in my recovery circle. My two books are Addiction to Love by Susan Peabody and Facing Love Addiction by Pia Mellody. These Books are a higher power let me tell you. These books have more power than anything I had in my brain. These books might be old but they are they greatest higher power for Love Addiction. I also just bought a meditation book that was written in the 80's by Mitzi Chandler called, Gentle Reminders for Co-Dependents. This is daily affirmations, it's like gold. I tell everyone, try to think of a HP as a resource of information that I do not have in this brain of mine. Another HP is people who have gone before me and have recovered from a hopeless state of mind and body.
Post by CodepNomore on Apr 27, 2015 9:40:06 GMT -8
Do you know that the only so-called "losers" in this world are those who have stopped trying?
You make a great point, but as a Christian I believe there are no losers. Some people are mentally ill and just cannot get beyond survival mode. This is why I believe so much is charity. There was a time in which I was totally powerless and could do nothing to help myself. Then a person reached out to help me and saved my life. But that is another story . . .
What if I come to a point in my life I really don't and cannot believe in God or HP? After a decade of reading Bible and believing I have finally come to a point I have to say I'm an atheist. What then?
When I began recovery I was an atheist. Then I read the "Chapter to the Agnostic" in the Big Book and decided to become an agnostic. Then, one day, I told my story to a group of people and realized that somehow I had been saved. But who saved me? Then I read in other AA literature that something wonderful would happen if I remained open minded. I read, "Ignorance is contempt prior to investigation" by Herbert Spencer. Then out of love for my sponsor I read some books about mystical experiences written by psychiatrists and memorized a prayer. I prayed this prayer with no expectations. Then, one day I had a mystical experience which I describe on this board in the spiritual forum. The rest in history.
I recommend other books besides the Bible. Google "books for agnostics." I like books about the mystical experiences of women. (By the way a mystical experience is a release of chemicals in the brain that lead to a "change in mind" about the existence of something other worldly. See, William James, "A Variety of Religions Experiences."
You ask, "what if." Well nothing happens if you choose to be an atheists. God loves you anyway. But it is kind of like during down food and water when you are in the middle of the desert." We love you. Stay on board and just love yourself wherever you are on the road to recovery.
Yes, I cannot be anything else than an atheist. If I would want to believe, it would be in vain. I am convinced that there is no God. So I have to operate within this framework. As I said I was a passionate believer for ten years, then eventualy through critical research of the Bible I couldn't believe it anymore. I like what Telmita wrote. There is a way for atheist torch bearers as well. So I would appreciate that you don't want to convince me about existence of God, I'm after all educated person and I did research. Anyway, 12 steps.. about hp I agree with Telmita 's way - thank you very much! However, i think I am a hard core torch bearer and chances are I will be left single for entire life. Now.. There are two options, either suicide (which I, at the end of the day, don't want) or to learn how to live somewhat content life. The latter I so don't know how to. Sadly.
Post by LovelyJune on Apr 27, 2015 10:58:19 GMT -8
I'm not sure I understand. Why does being a torchbearer mean you will be left single for the rest of your entire life? I understand and respect that you are an atheist, but you are not a fortune teller who can see into the future. Atheists keep it real and scientific and that is also where I implore you to keep it too
Torchbearers have just as much of a chance at a successful relationship as anyone else. I know. I was one. And I'm heathy and happy now. No more torches. I live my life with a different mindset.
My advice: If you are not going to depend on god to save you, then you need to begin to depend on yourself. Read as much as you can on love addiction. Don't stop reading. Learn what tools you need to not only survive but to THRIVE.
Good morning. Yeah, Telmita.. I was referring to my past experiences, that is, i never really had a boyfriend. There were two past poas (but I "did " this in silence suffering, hoping maybe they'd notice how nice am I). At this last guy we in the beginning were actually together as a couple - till our third meeting in person, when he broke up, saying I'm not confident and I'm insecure. From then on it went on and off for years. Btw, it was long distance "relationship". (what do you think about long distance relationships anyway?). So, what I wanted to somehow say, that there are big chances I will simply stay single for I never really had real experiences what does it mean to share life with someone else. Also, I live in a rather small city where single men is hard to meet, let alone a good man. But then again, it's not time for me to date now anyway, I would like to put myself together, maybe for the first time in my life on true foundation. Keep on being, guys, there also for me.
. But then again, it's not time for me to date now anyway, I would like to put myself together, maybe for the first time in my life on true foundation. Keep on being, guys, there also for me.
I think this is a GREAT plan. Build a strong foundation FIRST. And then entertain the idea of dating.
In my opinion, I think long distance relationships are not a healthy choice for love addicts. Especially someone with the habit of torchbearing. A relationship is difficult to begin with. Long distance complicates the relationship and adds and extra layer of confusion because, as someone NEW to dating, you need to be able to read cues, look for red flags and really learn how to communicate face to face with people. Long distance takes all that away and what does it leave behind? A lot of time for fantasy and what we call "filling in the blanks."
Also, When you have very little experience with relationships that does NOT mean you will never have a relationship. It just means, you are at the beginning of your learning experience. How exciting! Most people are at the beginning of their learning experience in their teenage years, but a few of us (I was one too) wait until we are older. Dating can be very scary. So, you ultimately need to try and push yourself to date (when you're ready and you've built up your foundation.). And when you are ready, buy a few books on "how to date." They are out there. A really great one is "A Fine Romance" by Judith Sills.
But...we are getting ahead of ourselves Your goal is to build up yourself FIRST and I think this is an AMAZING time in your life. Find out who you are, read about how to build your self esteem, go out into the world and find what you love. These things are very hard to do when you are in a relationship. But...you? You are FREE to do this kind of exploring now and that's a gift.
This sounds great, Telmita. But what would you say I still don't have my degree finished, which I should had done at my 25? Still five exams plus thesis. This is the reason my family is disappointed with me, moreover, this is the main source I certainly don't live myself and of bad self-talk. I'm thinking my poa was only a cover behind I could hide and run away from my reality. Moreover since he was wow successful in his career. I've lived this way for 8 years, somehow hoping we will be together. Then he completely ceased the communication. Better, you all will say, and I understand. But now I've found myself in the eyes of my rough reality: age 37, no degree, no steady work, estranged family relations, no person who would care for me. I do have friends, but they moved on with their lives. I'm witty and interesting person and they like my company.. But I KNOW I've failed in my life. The burden of wasted years, decades, is pushing me down, I started even feel pains in my chests and back. And as for those remaining exams..I have difficulties to study after all this time. So, a challenge, Telmita, is this situation o'mine still amazing time in my life? Another day without speaking to a single soul is passing by, this one rainy one. It's there a hope for me who am not so young anymore and with a delay with my bathcelor degree...
Age 37 is an AMAZING TIME IN YOUR LIFE. You are young, vibrant, and guess what...I did not get my degree until age 39!!! Focus on your degree. All the men you hope to date are not going anywhere. They will still all be there when you finish your degree There's no rush.
Yes, you and I wasted our lives, but as Sharon Olds says, “I was a late bloomer. But anyone who blooms at all, ever, is very lucky. ”
You need to make an investment in yourself FIRST (your degree) before you can move forward. Ignore the opinions of your family. You need to live your life at your own pace. Not theirs. Did you read my story? It's very similar to yours with how much time I wasted.
Just read your story. A nice one. Liked it. Although in comparison with mine far much happening, I'm quite passive. :/ Anyway, thanks for sharing. So back to the studies then.. Btw, perhaps a naive question, but would it be okay to ask him why he decided the way he did? He never said. But I think it wouldn't be dignified nor it would contribute to anything.... So finishing my exams and point one book for me, please.. Love hugs
Post by LovelyJune on Apr 28, 2015 13:09:24 GMT -8
Before reaching out to a PoA, always ask yourself, "How will knowing his answer change my life or my direction in anyway?" Chances are his answer will not help you on your current road to recovery. It will merely only open to the door to more fantasizing about him, more questions, more time anchored to him...Again, this is just my opinion. You are the one who needs to decide if reaching back to him will REALLY solve anything.
I've just changed my hairdress, not a lot, still . But the thing is these past days, even months I don't feel realy pretty. I look on the mirror and I see an aging woman.. As my best "era" would be already over. Within a light of still nor finished degree it can be devastating occasionally. ... I try not to think of him, also I try to remember how not very nice he was to me - nor wanting idolasoting him anymore. Anyhow, let's see how this life will go..
Hi jasmema! I too haven't finished my degree (I'm in my mid-thirties). During the last year I've found out about love addiction and realized how it's totally been my cover against taking the time to think about what I really wanted to do with my life. I just went with the flow, chose something easy and safe, that didn't interest me all that much. No interest also ment no motivation to work on my degree, so here I am. Instead of really thinking things through I chose to put my energy into obsessing about men and being sad all through my twenties. What an unnecessary waste! I've also felt that I've failed and also my family has been disappointed in me and many of my friends have moved on to a different place in their lives. But, I've worked out a study plan and followed it and my degree will be finished in some months! Then I can go after my real dreams, if I can manage to gather enough courage...
My point to you is that you cannot change your past. So you have failed. Dwelling on it doesn't change it, it only makes you feel bad in the now. All you can do is start from the now and play with the cards you have now. You need to forgive yourself for failing, because the guilt and anxiety will only keep you from doing what you need to do to get your degree finished. I've also felt very bad about myself because of the study issue, but working towards the goal makes me feel better. Your family might have a reason to have been disappointed, but they shouldn't dwell on the past either. So don't let them be judgemental towards you, cause it isn't a pragmatic way to deal with the issue and will not help you further.
Also about looking in the mirror and noticing the age: Lately I've found that practicing an acceptance also in this field is necessary. Aging is the way it's supposed to be. I find it helps to remind myself that it is just part of the deal and that everyone of us goes through it, it's what connects every human (and not just human). And it's actually a priviledge to have made it to a point where you notice signs of age. Your best era will certainly be ahead when you work on yourself!
Funny, I was also thinking about asking about the HP issue a few days ago, thanks for raising the question!
I look in the mirror and I see a Woman Alive! Aging? Eh, we all age. Even a baby born today is aging; that little newborn will be 50 years old one day. Or 80, or older is s/he is lucky enough to be healthy enough to make it.