Discussion of the Torchbearer

Reading up on the thread has been eye-opening to me. In my case the torch bearing has always been an aside to help me feel deeply connected and loved from afar during a marriage that I wasn't able to find emotional connection with my husband.

After 18 years of marriage I ended up having an emotional affair with my husband's best friend.
When this all came out my husband (and I) realized that we had some work to do in our marriage. He has been amazing in doing all he can to adjust to my newly expressed needs. Our marriage is getting better and better and we are learning new ways to connect and show our love.
Totally awesome!

And yet...after two years I still get these really strong longings for the relationship I had with POA. Little things trigger it and I go into a trance like fantasy state, thinking about him, remembering a conversation or a little thing he did or said.

Sometimes I feel like I am holding onto him on purpose, somehow not wanting to let the memory of him go. I speak out loud to myself and to God, "I choose to disconnect. Whatever part of me is still holding on, I desire to let go."

It's like a part of me is divided against myself.

When I do this I get some relief for a bit and then the cycle starts all over again. I am definitely willing to be willing. I would love to be able to transfer all of my affection and emotional connection to my husband.
Maybe I still don't trust him so I hold onto this illusion of a relationship that in reality I never actually had. Perhaps it is like was mentioned in the thread, I have not chosen to let go because I am hiding from the commitment to my husband.

And if so, where do I go from here?


In the past my other torchbearing relationships lasted until I would interact with them later in life. I had dreams about old crushes and boyfriends for years. An odd paradox is that Facebook helped me break the connection to my old POA's by connecting with them and then also gave me the avenue to develop the connection with my current POA. /:

I keep thinking if I could just sit down and have a conversation with him it would break the fantasy. But I don't trust myself that it isn't a desire to connect with him which will just start a new cycle of pain.

Who knows where truth lies, but my guess is that this is where any torchbearing would come from. Until this aspect is addressed (and maybe it never will be), the torchbearing will most likely continue. If that's the case, the torch is not a choice. It pops up without you having control over it. But if trust issues in your marriage are addressed, then, it suddenly moves you to a position of power; you are able to choose whether or not to hold on to the torch. How so? Because when we addressed the underlying cause of our addictions, there becomes no need for them. You cannot paint a ceiling without a ladder. Likewise, when you reach for something that is out of reach, that you do not have and want (trust in marriage for example), you tend to need a symbolic ladder to help you reach it. That ladder in a healthy person is confrontation and honesty with one's self and one's spouse. In an unhealthy person, it's fantasy, love addiction, torchbearing. Remove the need, reach your goals and there's suddenly no use for the ladder. Do you understand? Or is this more complicated than I'm making it???

Recovery for Torchbearers is all about mind control. Being very careful about what you fantasize about. If your mind is a television turn the channel.

Other options for fantasies are a new career, school work, helping others, writing etc. I stopped fantasizing about guys and got into my writing.

The spell was broken in one Torchbearing relationship by going to the high school reunion and seeing how much he had changed. Then I stopped projecting the guy I once loved on to the new person he had become. It took two months to see the real person. Amazing how long the projector stayed on. I had to really work to turn it off. Leave no stone unturned.

Mostly just give up your romantic fantasies about they guys you still love.

"Mostly just give up your romantic fantasies..." Yes, indeed, Susan!

If anyone has been following the Upstate New York prison break of two convicted murderers, it is coming out that a female prison worker was an accomplice in the scheme. She allegedly was wooed by one of the prisoners, and thought "it was love" that she felt for him (and he for her). The alleged plan was for her to run away with him. Perhaps to live 'happily ever after' or so she thought? More will be revealed, but it seems to me that she was in a state of romantic fantasy (to say the least...).

Romantic fantasy almost caused me to throw away a relationship with a wonderful man for a sex-addicted, emotionally-unavailable cross-addicted gambler ($57,000 in debt). Yep, he wooed me. Just like a convicted murdered wooed Joyce Mitchell.

If I have learned nothing else in my recovery, it is to "MOSTLY JUST GIVE UP YOUR ROMANTIC FANTASIES". At the very least (meaning, you have not acted out on them), they are worthless and a waste of precious time in our lives. At worst, they can prove to be absolutely devastating if acted upon (if convicted Ms. Mitchell is looking at eight years in prison for aiding and abetting convicted prisoners).

Although my 'romantic fantasy guy' is not a convicted felon, he is on the verge of financial collapse and still heads out to the casinos. He is an addict through-and-through (so cross-addicted, I have lost track of his past addictions). And I truly came thisclose to giving everything up (loving spouse, beautiful home, financial security) for a romantic fantasy that I built up in my head, as he wooed me into his fantasy lair. I thank Holy Trinity and my guardian angel for steering me away from an oncoming train wreck...

Yes, Susan, you are 100% correct when you say, 'mostly just give up your romantic fantasies". I simply cannot stress this enough. Thanks, Susan, for the reminder. It is my mantra!

HaveFaith

Havefaith thank you for sharing your story. This part is so full of emotion and gratefulness that I can totally relate with!

I feel that God also rescued me from the same train wreck. Pulled me out of my folly in the nick of time. In my case I couldn't see it myself so he showed people in my life who were close to me and who encouraged me to to recognize how close I was the the precipice.

The struggle I am now having, (summarized in this thread above), is I don't have a grasp on why I shouldn't be in POA's life now that I'm addressing the LA issues. He and my husband are still friends and that confuses me. POA is not a bad guy at all. In fact just the opposite. (I wish he were bad sometimes, but then clearly from your stories here in this blog I would find a justification for still fantasizing!)

Looking back I realize I've always had a torch for someone besides my husband, but before POA they were always unattainable, far away, not in contact at all so I never saw it as anything bad until my LA came out in full swing with a real live, in my life, person.

Again I feel that I am divided against myself. Part of me I can trust to see POA and be totally healthy, mature and capable.
But the other part of me would get all excited and nervous and want to connect deeper with him, and then restart the fantasy connection all over again.

I really want to be stronger. But I'm not.
What I keep coming back to, is he may not be a bad guy....but he is a bad guy for me.
(I only believe that about 50% of the time.)

Havefaith how have you fared in transferring your affections and connection back to your healthy relationship?
Did you find that you had needs that weren't being met there and that's why you were open to the other person? Or was it not related?

I for one believe that I have unmet needs that keep me carrying a torch. I don't know if mind control is the best way to go for me, because actually one major mistake I made was trying to force myself to stop liking the POA, instead of treating myself lovingly. I think I need to listen to the deeper messages behind my fantasies. I have 2.5 years NC, and right now I have everything I "should" want in life--a healthy relationship, living in the place I always wanted to move to, and accomplishing a major career goal--the only thing that feels missing is POA. In the past I've also tried focusing all my energy on ambitious goals instead, but I learned that I will always burn out if I am ignoring a vital part of me as a human being. I can only listen to my emotions to get a clue what I'm *really* missing, that makes me miss *him*. I think they are mostly emotional needs that I had to block out to deal with my childhood and mother. But if I continue to stay numb, I stay addicted. Thanks for being my accountability partners, everyone who reads this.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I know that in certain cases, I can feel something emotionally and really believe it's true, when in fact, it's not. I think many of us do this with issues of ingratitude. In my case, I spent many years having a really nice house, relationship, family, etc., but I often felt "something was missing". Like I didn't have enough, or what I did have was not sufficient to fill a void inside me. And yet, I came to learn that this is an illusion. That emotions don't always tell you what you are missing, but rather, they believe what they are told by your brain. I was ungrateful. Period. I believed I was lacking. I believed the lie I would tell myself that my life was not full enough. None of this was realistically true.

I wrote a blog entry called "Filling the Void" and I talk a lot about perspective. If you think there's a void in you, chances are you will try to fill it. Or ignore it. But if you address it, face it, accept it, and start to visualize it as something else (a whole part of you that you just don't particularly like), your perspective changes. thelovelyaddict.com/2011/01/07/filling-the-void/

In the Buddhist philosophy this is known as living in the now. It is not allowing the mind to focus on "what ifs" or "assumptions" or "what could be's" When we accept life on life's terms and are grateful for what we have right in front of us instead of allowing ourselves to LONG for things we do not have, we make peace with ourselves and our lives. Just trying to rid thoughts in brain or cover them up with tons of activities won't always work. There needs to be boundaries set and rules for thinking. A brain washing, so to speak! That which is not real, and that which I cannot have does not give me the right to think I should have it. Focus on what I do have, and be grateful. Period. I applied this my own love addiction and torchbearing. It helped me immensely.

I was an intense torchbearer for decades.

I pined for POA#1 for about a decade, then I transferred to POA#2. He and I never had a romantic relationship. It was always just out of reach (bad timing). But my feelings were so strong, I figured he was my soul mate.

Now I can see how I used POA#2 to avoid my marriage. I fantasized uncontrollably...imagining our wedding. I can relate to Morello on Orange is the New Black except I didn't go so far as to show up at his house! I can understand the almost uncontrollable urges that are fueled by delusion and fantasy.

One day, after about 20 or so years of pining for this fantasy of a man...I connected with a mutual friend who told me he had died. I privately grieved, in shock, for a man who I had not seen in years, who I never slept with, never went out on a proper date...basically being in love with someone who gave me no thought.

That's my part in ruining my marriage. My husband could not live up to the fantasy of someone I barely knew and was no longer in my life so I made him perfect in my mind. I resented being stuck in my marriage while my soulmate was out there (until he died).

After POA#2's death I decided to re-commit to my marriage, but it was too late. I wasted years pining over something that wasn't real instead of addressing the relationship I was in.

I'm thankful for recovery because I'm not pining over anyone now. No one on my radar. It feels good, but I worry if I get back into another relationship, will I fall back into this "grass is greener" way of thinking again?

As for POA#1...we reconnected over the past year by his request. He's happily married, he's dying of cancer and I feel no attachment towards him. I see that we never shared the same values and dreams and there's a good reason we didn't stay together. He'll always have a place in my past (he was my first love) but he's not with me now and that's fine.

Hoping I'm recovered. This torchbearing stuff is so damaging and wasteful.

This is also a dangerous part of online dating. People have grown accustomed to a way of thinking that says there's someone else out there, just a scroll or click away. This enables us to get bored and move on to the next one with ease...kind of like torchbearing for the IDEA of a perfect or better relationship. I can now see my POAs were never really people, basically they were ideas and fantasies. Immature concepts of what love is supposed to be that I installed on various men over the years.

I am really getting a lot out of this discussion!
Thank you Havefaith for sharing your insight and taking the time to answer my questions. It was very helpful and also has given me some hope and affirmation that the track I am on is right. (Focusing on healing myself and on meeting my own needs)

paisley I really take your story to heart. I'm so sorry for the pain torchbearing has brought to your life. Thank you for sharing because I want to avoid the pitfall that you are warning about. My POA is getting ready to move across the country and I imagine I will most likely never see him again. I am taking your story (and others) to heart in recognizing that this could actually immortalize his "perfection" in my mind and place him as an image that I 'visit' whenever I am feeling unhappy in my marriage. (Rather than what a typical or non-LA person might assume, that it's a relief he is out of my life.)
I am taking your story as a warning to guard against that kind of thinking. As well as LovelyJune 's advice about being in the moment and being grateful for what I actually have rather than longing after things that don't even exist.

What a great article. Chock full of great information.
Thank you!

I have a question regarding Susan's quote about breaking the spell by seeing the changed person at the reunion. Would I be breaking withdrawal and sobriety by purposely finding information about an old POA in an attempt to break the spell? I think, for me, that was the type of reasoning that led me to do cyber stalking, though I always stopped after just a few seconds, so never even got much information.

I did see that the person had aged, and gained some weight, but that didn't completely break the spell.

So then my brain can start telling me I need to find out more info, see more pictures, to break the spell, but couldn't that be reinforcing the spell?

Or is the idea that, if God puts certain things in our life (reunions for example), then it's ok to go to them and see what is revealed. But when we are actively going online and culling information, or trying to get information from a mutual acquaintance, we are forcing an outcome. Is that the difference?

Thank you.

To answer my own question, a review of the love addiction no contact rules clearly states that cyber stalking is a no contact rule. So, that answers my question. I can't take things out of context from other posts about other situations and make it fit into what the "addict me" wants to do.

Anyway, this thread and the one that started it are so helpful.

This sounds so hopeful LovelyJune I'm closer than I've ever been but it's frustrating.