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Post by moonlitvein on Jun 16, 2015 10:48:11 GMT -8
During recent times (and generally too) I have developed a growing fear of proximity with men whom I don't know well. I have a fear that I will be sexually harassed by any man I meet. I don't know how many of you have faced this fear which has led to a growing anxiety with time but I need some objective viewpoints about this.
LovelyJune, you told me once when I had first come to this site & talked about my problems in job/life in general, that some kind of fear is stopping me and stunting my growth. This is one of them and it is a major one. I am letting it out today hoping that it will help me move forward in a better/healthier way. It has made me go deeper into my corner and the process of getting out feels difficult & scary everyday. This is one of the things that has stunted me for the last couple of months but I think the fear has been growing for quite a few years. I feel scared to go for interviews coz I feel anxious that what if I meet someone in the job who will harass me? What if I have to do many medical tests before joining my job & someone in the clinic harasses me?
I am constantly anxious that strange men will try to touch me. My defence strategies are always up because of which I cannot relax. Currently this "scary man" is taking the form my yoga instructor. Tomorrow it will be someone else. Unless I face the fear I will not be able to resolve this. While harassment is a very real social issue, fear can also be based on something illogical and a deep rooted issue that we often cannot figure out. Right now I can definitely figure that I am insecure and I am scared that I will not be able to defend myself.
Or my mind is always ticking during a situation when I am interacting with a strange man, when I am telling myself that what should I do if he tries to touch me? I should try this ? Or that? So instead of focusing on the issue at hand my mind is figuring out a defence strategy when the anxiety is reaching it's peak.
This insecurity is spreading a little bit to some men in the family too in recent times. I am unable to sit close to them or be with them. I fear being alone with them in the car.
I don't have a history of abuse in the family. I have been fortunate to be with & have very warm supportive men in my life (relationships have not worked out with them but that doesn't make them bad people). And I am absolutely not going to believe that all men are the same & bad. The world is full of good men. And I want to believe in them and have faith.
Spoke about this issue with two very close friends today. Both in mid 30's & both have similar fears. But one who is married, her fears are somehow less blown out of proportions while mine and the other friend's is not. One thing is clear. The fear & anxiety have to be dealt with and it has to be faced. I am doing it.
But I need some objective perspective on this please.
It's been a evening fraught with anxiety in my yoga class!!! How ironic is that?!
Please help. Why do I have this paralysing fear?
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Post by leahb on Jun 16, 2015 15:57:08 GMT -8
It's like you're reading my mind! I have the same issue! Anytime I stranger touches me I freak out. I do not like unfamiliar men in my personal space and I feel so unsafe. It started when I slow danced with my father at my wedding 4 years ago. It felt weird with him being in my personal space. Wrong somehow. I hated the feeling of his hands on me. This really hadn't happened before. I didn't feel this way with my husband when we were married, but when we separated it was like any man that touched me-even if it was in a non-sexual way, made me feel so uncomfortable. I almost felt like vomiting. Now, I think its because there was some covert/emotional incest when I was a child. Plus-I was molested by my first boyfriend at 15.
Also My father sometimes inadvertently called me by my Mothers name a number of times and it made me feel strange. There was always drinking in my household growing up and I would classify both my parents as alcoholics as they never went a day without a beer.
I can't pinpoint the exact time this started in childhood or what not, but isince my late 20s it's been an issue. I can so relate to your story.
Does anyone out there now why we may feel this way? I feel like this extreme reaction is t typical. I'd like to know why I experience it too.
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Post by moonlitvein on Jun 16, 2015 20:28:11 GMT -8
This really hadn't happened before. I didn't feel this way with my husband when we were married, but when we separated it was like any man that touched me-even if it was in a non-sexual way, made me feel so uncomfortable.
I can't pinpoint the exact time this started in childhood or what not, but isince my late 20s it's been an issue. Exactly. For me too, this was never an issue when I was in my 20's. This has become an issue very gradually as I have come to my mid 30's. In your case you didn't feel anything when you were married. In my case this has developed slowly over the years since my father passed away. I've never been married. In both our cases the immediate reason seems to be the absence of a man.
I am wondering whether this has to do with social codes and norms of "protection" that women have when there is a man in their life. With the absence of a man the position of a woman (in her as well as society's perceptions) unconsciously shifts from a situation of "protected" to a situation of vulnerability. From this vulnerable position a power struggle arises in our psyches (within us & men) during our encounters with men where we are constantly trying to guard ourselves with invisible shields & walls fearing that any man out there will harm us since we are "unprotected". What happens then is basically a trust issue with all men.
In your case you have figured out your childhood issues with covert incest and alcoholic parents. In my case I haven't had any such childhood issue. So I don't know where this is springing from. I am wondering if this is also deeply connected with age,marriage, and sexual experiences.
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Post by leahb on Jun 16, 2015 21:54:42 GMT -8
Your hypothesis appears to be pretty sound. It's the agonizing feeling of vulnerability that is so tough. For me I'm actually not too bad with men that are friends. Men that are not interested in me sexually or that have treated me like a person. My big issue is with strangers or men who look at me a certain way-that hyper sexual way. I'm hopeful that this will not last forever though
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Post by moonlitvein on Jun 17, 2015 1:19:31 GMT -8
Yes I also meant men who are strangers or look at me/has a certain body language. I am extremely comfortable with my male friends too. I also trust male doctors who have been seeing me for yrs completely. In case of strangers, once I have achieved a level of comfort I am absolutely fine with them too & start trusting them. I am hoping it will be resolved to a large extent if we can get to the bottom of this.
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Post by LovelyJune on Jun 17, 2015 2:25:06 GMT -8
I think part of your fears are normal. Not many women like the feeling of having strange men (that they are not interested in) look at them in overly sexual ways, let alone touch them. We are a bit vulnerable in that sense, as it is still part of our culture that men seem to believe they have the "right" to reach out and touch us, when in fact they don't. There's nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable or weird, situationally. I remember very well times in my life where my father wanted to hug me and it creeped me out. Then again, he was a sex addict and I knew this of him. So, while he never blunted sexually abused me, he crossed many boundaries. There was a real reason his affection didn't go over well with me. But, I also remember a time or two in my life, right after I got out of my marriage (to a man whom I never should have married because I didn't love him), of hanging out with a group of friend-men especially--who were laughing and joking about casual sex. While I didn't feel fear, I did feel revulsion. It sickened me to listen to men talk about sex and I began to "hate" men in general. I could not in a million years figure out where this came from until many years later. Here's what I figured out, and it may help you: I was married to a man whom I did not like or love but whom I had had sex with and children with. I married him as a full blown love addict, looking for someone to financially take care of me. But when I divorced (or when I was about to divorce) and grew stronger, I wanted nothing to do with any man, or any man who was overly sexual with me. In fact, I ended up dating a guy who almost NEVER wanted sex with me. But, I did this as a way to protect myself. And oftentimes in fear we think we are protecting ourselves. I realized that this hate (and fear) I had towards men came from my own personal shame I felt for allowing a man (many, in fact) to touch me and have sex with me when I was not in love with them. I ultimately grew to feel less vulnerable in front of men however, the more control I got over my own life and the less addicted I was to love. Remember, doing things for love, like having sex or dating someone or hanging on to a painful relationship can feel very shameful once you get into recovery. I went through a lot of self hate, where at times, I blamed men for "taking advantage of me." But the reality was, in most cases, I allowed it, and it was ME who created my own vulnerability. This will not be the case with everyone. Some will have fear of men because of PTSD from actual real cases of rape or abuse. But, if you have none in your history and you are looking to figure out where your fears come from, look to your past relationships. They may not have been abusive, per se, but you may have felt pain and suffering in them. You may have felt out of control, unhappy, not respected. You may have stayed past the point of dignity or put up with things you normally wouldn't (cheating, betrayal, lies, etc) When this happens, we tend to want to look at all men as toxic or bad. How could they do this to me? In reality, we do this to ourselves. We get into and stay in relationship that are far below our standards. We have no values. No boundaries. We accept things that healthy people would never accept. All this can certainly transform into fear when looking at other men. But ask yourself if the fear doesn't come from your self-created vulnerability.
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Post by paisley on Jun 17, 2015 7:30:57 GMT -8
When I took a fear inventory while working the 12 steps, each time I identified a fear, my sponsor had me answer the question "how did I fail to understand that my higher power would take care of me?"
Not being religious, my higher power is the universe.
Many times the fear is in not trusting ourselves to handle a situation appropriately. For example, the fear of being harassed. So a man acts inappropriately towards you. Do you trust "the universe" (god, whatever) to take care of you in that situation? For me that would mean I trust myself to set appropriate boundaries or remove myself from a bad situation. I trust "the system" to respond if it gets ugly and I need police intervention or medical care. I trust myself to recover and heal. I honestly believe most people are kind and decent so I usually don't have a problem halting the fear and putting it "in god's hands", in the hands of the universe, etc.
My biggest challenge has been in trusting myself to take care of me and react appropriately. Listening to your gut and standing up for yourself goes a long way here. And I always keep in mind that I will forgive myself if I don't do the best thing. I try...and I go by what I know at the time, and that's really all anyone can do.
Trust yourself Trust the universe Forgive yourself Forgive the universe
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Post by moonlitvein on Jun 26, 2015 1:36:20 GMT -8
This will not be the case with everyone. Some will have fear of men because of PTSD from actual real cases of rape or abuse. But, if you have none in your history and you are looking to figure out where your fears come from, look to your past relationships. They may not have been abusive, per se, but you may have felt pain and suffering in them. You may have felt out of control, unhappy, not respected. You may have stayed past the point of dignity or put up with things you normally wouldn't (cheating, betrayal, lies, etc) When this happens, we tend to want to look at all men as toxic or bad. How could they do this to me? In reality, we do this to ourselves. We get into and stay in relationship that are far below our standards. We have no values. No boundaries. We accept things that healthy people would never accept. All this can certainly transform into fear when looking at other men. But ask yourself if the fear doesn't come from your self-created vulnerability. Dear LovelyJune Now that you have put this into perspective by talking about self created vulnerability, along with other things this is making a lot of sense. I never thought that this could actually be self created many times. Yes, looking back at my inventory of past relationships with men I recognize that though they there was no actual abuse per se, I had done things/put up with comments/behaviour that are actually beneath me. They were below my standards & I would not put up with them today at all. I do generally mistrust men & I am beginning to see certain connections. Even with a close male friend (an ex (not my PoA) with whom things didn't work out but who has been very supportive towards my state currently) my issues of trust crop up in spite of loads of emotional support. These trust issues never come up with my female friends.
Whenever I am in public or in a group (public transport, cue etc.) I am looking out whether any man is touching another girl & I feel this urge to protect her. Most of the time I've discovered that I'm wrong. The man is not doing a thing. I am the one who is perceiving the situation as threatening. I might be addicted to protecting people. I don't know where it stems from. Perhaps my own insecurities?
As far as any particular situation is concerned I was facing this uncomfortable feeling with my exercise instructor. But I took your's as well as Paisley's advice & went to class and did my exercises any way. Most of the days I succeeded in being in a better frame of mind & it lifted me. I had set a short term goal to learn the exercises properly under supervision for a month (which I largely did). About 2 to 3 more days are left. I have however chosen to remove myself from this situation after facing my fear, for two essential reasons; while there has actually been nothing abusive or inappropriate, it's generally a negative environment where instructors are generating a lot of criticism to everyone. It is also a place where the people are indulging in gossip while doing meditation & exercise. After going & facing my fear for the month I have decided I want to remove myself from here since I want to be in a good environment with pleasant people & not instructors who are needlessly critical. I am not a child, this is no school, I am an adult & I definitely can chose a better environment.
The good thing is I have focused & learnt the exercises well & can do it at home while looking for a better place. Though, sometimes I was on edge. Whatever it is, I realise I generally do need to work on this & get over this fear. Thanks so much.
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Post by moonlitvein on Jun 26, 2015 1:57:15 GMT -8
When I took a fear inventory while working the 12 steps, each time I identified a fear, my sponsor had me answer the question "how did I fail to understand that my higher power would take care of me?" Not being religious, my higher power is the universe. Dear paisley, Thanks so much for your support. Though I've not done the 12 steps my belief is in a force that exists in this world & it is greater than all of us. I believe that I draw my strength from this force. I also pray & ask for strength.
But your sayings reinforced my belief & I went to my class, mostly faced my fear, learnt my exercises well. I tried to bring the focus back to myself while exercising & not let fear make my mind run helter skelter. If anything inappropriate happened, I trusted myself to handle the situation & I also trusted/believed that not only I but all of us in the class were protected. I got a lot done with this mind frame.
As I told LJ in the earlier post that I am choosing to leave after a point since I am not happy with this environment which is critical & gossipy. I want to choose a better class with better teachers & partners. Even though I have faced my fear I am still a bit uncomfortable & edgy though. I do realise that facing my fear in one situation is not enough. I will need to work on this. But nevertheless the thought process & belief worked. Thanks a lot.
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Post by LovelyJune on Jun 26, 2015 2:51:06 GMT -8
This fear in you can be almost entirely removed when you find a man (not necessarily a boyfriend or partner), but any many who you trust and who is very trusting. Try to find someone like this-- a man in your family, at work, someone you might know through a friend, who you believe is a trusting, honest, respectful, kind person. When you find him, try to pay close attention to him. Learn from him. Allow him to be the model of man you'd like in your life. This is how you build trust. By surrounding yourself with trusting people. At first you will be suspicious. But give it time. Yours fears will dissipate.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Jun 26, 2015 12:11:03 GMT -8
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Post by moonlitvein on Jul 8, 2015 10:32:58 GMT -8
This fear in you can be almost entirely removed when you find a man (not necessarily a boyfriend or partner), but any many who you trust and who is very trusting. Try to find someone like this-- a man in your family, at work, someone you might know through a friend, who you believe is a trusting, honest, respectful, kind person. When you find him, try to pay close attention to him. Learn from him. Allow him to be the model of man you'd like in your life. This is how you build trust. By surrounding yourself with trusting people. At first you will be suspicious. But give it time. Yours fears will dissipate. I think unconsciously I have not been able to do this though consciously I have tried (through relationships which of course turned messy, through male friends, through colleagues in office). The thing is, dad was the one I trusted the most. He was always there for me & mum & the whole family. Now when I think back I have been in a house of women without a male member for so long, over 11 yrs. And that too, a male member who is my role model but he is not physically there for so long any more. Also over the yrs our family has lost many other strong healthy male figures, so there's been loss.
I think I have looked for that trust & dependability in my relationships & senior men as well and they have ultimately failed to come up to the standards of trust & being there in one way or the other. That's where the trust issue has cropped up over a period of time, I think.
In a post a few days back a member wrote this about rage. It sounds a little off the topic but it's actually not.
The minute I read the phrase "Revenge and Retaliation fantasies toward your abandoner" a piece of the puzzle fell in place. I have had such fantasies towards most men who have left me, hurt me & I realized I still have these retaliation fantasies because I feel they have ABANDONED me when in reality, sometimes, there was no relationship at all. In fact my inventory shows that I view most men as abandoners and who hurt me & hence not to be trusted. That's why my Outer child has spurts of mistrust, irritation & panic towards men. I am so thankful to wip for placing the above in this way & to you for giving such a solid viewpoint.
I understand what you are saying. I will need to work on this. Your blog is becoming my daily cleanser, like yoga. Educational Experience Ahead indeed ! 7 months in this board & it is only now that I am beginning to realise why you all say recovery is hard!
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Post by LovelyJune on Jul 8, 2015 11:03:53 GMT -8
This sounds like a huge ah ha moment for you. Pat yourself on the back for figuring it out. You will be fine some day. I know it.
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Post by moonlitvein on Jul 8, 2015 21:39:24 GMT -8
Thanks LJ
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bobat
Junior Member
Posts: 87
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Post by bobat on Jan 6, 2016 19:09:32 GMT -8
I don't think your fear is unfounded or all in your head. I have the same fear, to the point where I dread going out in public sometimes because i know i will be cat called or hit on. I am still trying to figure out a way to say "not interested" without insulting someone's ego. It really sucks that we live in a society where people are taught to be on the "hunt" at all times. I kind of get it. As an addict I have been on the hunt most of my life...but since i am aware that it is an addiction i am disgusted when other people are also "hunting" 24/7. I really wish we lived in a world where we could all acknowledge each other as human beings rather than look at each other as potential sexual and romantic partners. The media certainly does not help. I guess all we can do is try go be the change we want to see in the world.
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Post by moonlitvein on Jan 12, 2016 0:58:49 GMT -8
Dear bobat The fear is definitely not ALWAYS unfounded or in my head. But it has developed into a phobia because of recent events & how media highlights it, my being in a home without the support of a man etc for 12 yrs or so. So I tend to imagine things even when it's not happening. Often I have found out that my fear was baseless. That does not mean bad things do not happen. They do. Men view women as objects.They do. Most of us do tend to think of the other as potential partners. But baseless fear as it is pointed out in this thread is a deep rooted issue that stems from mistrust or anger. That needs to be worked on (at least on my part, definitely).
As far as specific instances are concerned for instance my yoga teacher - I know things were not right with him. I had walked out of my class, making it my conscious choice. He is a person who tends to touch women or tries to gain their trust & then touch them. This is what I have sensed & seen it happen subtly. I left that environment with a conscious choice. But I believe the world has a lot of good people & good men in it. We need to open our hearts too.
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