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Triangle
Jan 5, 2018 14:44:37 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by paisley on Jan 5, 2018 14:44:37 GMT -8
So I broke up with my last boyfriend because I felt a triangle issue coming on, but it seems I’m still in this situation.
He was in love with me, I put him off due to him being recently divorced, then he was dating another gal and we were all friends.
They broke up, then I started dating him. The other gal got very upset and shut us both out. He said he’d never be with her again regardless of what became of us. He said they couldn’t be friends because she wanted him back and he wasn’t interested. I found out he had been initiating contact with her, and that they met up, so I dumped him.
We were going to remain friends, he was very helpful to me during a hard time and is generally a good guy?, I just see him as a pleaser who can’t set firm boundaries with other women and I know that’s toxic for me.
So I made the right choice, but he’s ALWAYS around...most of the time without his girlfriend (because she is really low energy) and I’ve had to tell him many times to give me space because he’s inserting himself into my relationships when I’m socializing with single men, etc. I feel he’s a real hindrance to me eventually finding a new boyfriend because I don’t do dating apps. It’s hard enough to make a connection without an ex hanging around and putting his two cents into my relationships with others.
And it puts me in a tough spot because there are a couple of guys in my social circle I want to date, but this ex has inserted himself so deeply into my life, nearly all his friends are people he’s met through me, so I get almost ZERO time without him tagging along.
I don’t want to control the situation and ask people not to invite him. I think that will only make me look bad and decrease my chances of being included. There was a time some friends did not invite him and he made an issue of it, saying he wants to be included and he was hurt to be left out.
I’ve talked to him more than once about it and he’s utterly clueless with regards to my feelings (hence me breaking up with him in the first place). I brought it up to him again this morning from the perspective of being respectful to his girlfriend and that I would not be happy if the situation was reversed (I wasn’t happy when the situation was reversed) and he gave a drawn out explanation about how they totally trust each other to hang out with friends of the opposite sex. Basically, I’m immature and insecure but he never wants to lose my friendship (to be fair, he is a good friend).
I told him (again) this is not about trust, it’s about respect. No one else’s boyfriend spends that much time and attention on me. I did not get into how he’s interfering with my chances of starting things up with another guy, because I don’t want to disclose my desire to date a couple of mutual friends because the last time he saw something getting started, he was intrusive and made this weird comment telling me and this guy that we’d make a great couple...BEFORE this guy had even asked me out or anything...which subsequently never happened. I wonder why???
Anyway, trying to keep some privacy with regards to my romantic prospects, which I’m finding to be nearly impossible because this ex is so embedded in my social group. I feel like I can’t shake him and I may as well still be dating him because his girlfriend is MIA so often and I’ve got this ex by my side ALL THE TIME.
He inserted himself into my plans tonight so I backed out. I told him it’s ridiculous and although we should be fine as friends, we need limits and boundaries.
I just don’t know how to MAKE him get it. I don’t really want to ditch my tribe that it’s taken me almost a decade to create and be a part of.
I know this is me being co-dependent and not wanting to destroy our friendship just because it’s cramping my style when I’m socializing with single guys. I feel like I shouldn’t be CONTROLLING any of this...who is friends with whom, who is interfering when I’m looking to get closer to single guy friends, the fact that my ex is dating a gal who he misrepresented to me when we were dating. All of it I should let go...but I feel like I’m being smothered and sabotaged. I feel like my “jealousy” (if that’s what this is) is resulting in ugly emotions from me that only makes me less desirable. I feel like any attempts to control will just result in me appearing petty and jealous. Or maybe I should just own that and be more blunt.
I don’t know.
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Triangle
Jan 10, 2018 13:24:54 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by paisley on Jan 10, 2018 13:24:54 GMT -8
So this issue continued with him still wanting to hang out with me so I laid out all of my concerns above and let him know it’s hurtful to treat women this way, by having this desire to maintain close friendships with exes. I reminded him how he and his girlfriend hurt me by doing this and I’m not comfortable with the lack of boundaries.
So apparently he shares this with the girlfriend and she is in fact upset, but at me. She broke up with him and sent me a note (jeez) letting me know about it and how it’s because of my drama with regards to him.
I suppose I’m being scapegoated for their issues and their lack of boundaries but I’m certainly willing to look at my part in this and I feel bad for hurting her...even though it’s so ironic considering my “drama” involves my desire to distance myself from her boyfriend.
These triangles zap me no matter which side I’m on. If I’m the girlfriend, I’m too jealous and untrusting. If I’m the “other woman” (for lack of a better word) I’m wrecking things by enforcing my values and attempting to set boundaries.
No chance of contacting her since I’m blocked, and that’s probably best since I’ve apparently done enough damage as far as she’s concerned. If anything, it’s validation that I’m not crazy and she’s more human than I thought before when he was insisting I’m the only one with a problem and it’s normal and mature to prioritize a relationship with an ex lover when you’re starting (or restarting) up a relationship with someone you profess to love.
The lesson? I’ve been choosing pleasers with weak boundaries and a need to keep “plan b” women around out of their fear of being alone. I suppose that made sense when I too was afraid to be alone, but now that I’m OK being single, it’s obvious to me and it’s unattractive.
It sucks someone else got hurt and blames me, but I guess I’ll take one for the team. The issue of establishing better boundaries with this guy remains. We have an outing with mutual friends (my friends) this weekend but I feel I can maintain my space for that, and then maybe bow out of some things in the future and branch out in some other directions. My fear is he will be more attached since he’s single now, but perhaps he’s got a “plan c” gal in mind. It really needs to be none of my business.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Jan 10, 2018 15:22:53 GMT -8
As long as you continue a dialogue with him the triangle will continue. Why are you still talking. Be honest and explore why you are still doing this. What are you getting out of it. Thanks. Is there anyway you can stop talking altogether? Please remember that Triangles are not just manifested as no contact. It sounds like the Triangle is still in your head and consuming your time and attention. Are you taking care of yourself and your family? What do you think it will take to break the spell? kingsleydennis.com/breaking-the-spell/
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Post by paisley on Jan 10, 2018 20:20:37 GMT -8
That's what my friends are saying as well.
What am I getting out of it?
He has been helping me with a huge issue involving a family member. He will stop helping if I ask him to, but it would involve him terminating a relationship with this family member of mine. I don't know if that's in the best interests of the family member.
Really nothing more and actually more grief than help these days with his interference.
I know what I need to do.
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Post by paisley on Jan 11, 2018 17:00:32 GMT -8
Still confused. I know I need to stop talking to him, but he is going to show up at most of my activities...especially now that he's single.
I don't want to control who people invite nor do I want to encourage them to exclude him. There are some of my friends who like him (although most see him as needy and insecure or even manipulative..my closest girlfriends are actually angry with him).
I don't want to give up my activities to avoid him. This is my life I've created over years, and he's hijacked it over the past year or so. I can't believe I was not more protective of my personal life.
I suggested to him that he bow out of an event we are having this weekend and it upset him greatly. (Yes, I shouldn't talk to him at all, but I thought maybe he'd understand and bow out to be nice...he is generally nice and accommodating...to a fault actually). I have personally invited a few friends who are counting on me to be there, although I suppose it wouldn't be the end of the world if I didn't go. GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
I guess I'm caught up in the unfairness of it...these are MY friends. I'm trying not to make this issue into a thing and cause unnecessary drama, but it's just blowing up around me. I know I'm responsible for where I am, but I'm a little out of control with it right now. Hoping to get a grasp on it soon. I do not want to just bow out of my social life, I don't.
Dangit.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 18:19:53 GMT -8
I was never very social. I am an extreme introvert. A large gathering for me is 5 people in a quiet, private space. I just can't relate
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Triangle
Feb 2, 2018 7:47:54 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by paisley on Feb 2, 2018 7:47:54 GMT -8
Well this went from bad to worse quickly. I feel I’ve taken a huge step backwards. I guess a part of me is still in love with this guy, let’s just refer to him as POA for the sake of simplicity and accountability. POA blindsided me on an outing with mutual friends last weekend. He was with his new girlfriend, a gal he used to date before. She’s gorgeous, interesting, connected to ridiculously famous people, and wants to be my friend immediately. I made it through the night and then twisted off to insanity. All of the sudden I want him back. I want to marry him. I decided he needs to know this so I’ve been engaging in punishing, manipulative conversation with him all week. He says he wants to see where it goes with her first and hopes I wait for him. I feel rejected, knowing full well I did this to myself. I broke my own heart. I was in a panic. I’ve had a couple guys ask me out lately and they’ve been bottom of the barrel. I feel it’s all Im going to get. It IS all I’m getting. Im done. Im giving up 90% of my social life so POA and his girlfriend can have it. I’ve lost my life, as I know it and must rebuild it from scratch again. I am 50 years old. I will likely never find a new partner and I don’t know how to be ok with that. I’m extremely depressed. I still have a handful of friends who are not his. They are rallying around me this weekend. I am blessed, I just feel gutted though.
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Post by Havefaith on Feb 2, 2018 10:12:33 GMT -8
Could you define "bottom of the barrel" -- in terms of personality, behavior, morals/virtues, economic status, etc.?
HaveFaith
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Post by paisley on Feb 2, 2018 13:24:51 GMT -8
Yes all of the above. Like if there is a group of guy friends I know, one may be an attractive lawyer, one might be another sort of successful businessman. One may be a talented musician who I also find funny and sweet. One may be on disability and mired in a dysfunctional relationship with his mother. One may have problems with alcohol and unemployed.
The cute lawyer talks me up for years and it goes no where. The talented musician only responds if I initiate. The good looking businessman is the same dead end. The unemployed mentally ill guy wants to see more of me and the one on disability mired in a dysfunctional relationship with his mom all but beats down my door wanting to spend time with me.
Didn’t mention the toothless guy who spits all over you when he talks, the convicted (recovered) rapist, the psychotic guy hooked on painkillers or the neo-nazi from high school.
Yes, I reject. Yes, I distance. Yes, I seek out more suited company. But “normal” guys simply. Do. Not. Want. Me. Period.
And I’ve done all “the right things”. I’m educated. I’m gainfully employed. Not looking for a savior but would like a partner. It’s simply not in the cards for me. It hurts. It’s getting old.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 15:05:49 GMT -8
... But “normal” guys simply. Do. Not. Want. Me. Period. And I’ve done all “the right things”. I’m educated. I’m gainfully employed. Not looking for a savior but would like a partner. It’s simply not in the cards for me. It hurts. It’s getting old. I've been in similar situations. When I was in my mid 20's I was heavy in the bar scene, just trying to meet people. I would get date after date, but the people I managed to meet were just the weirdest. The worst one was a girl who would not stop talking. You might think I just mean she talked a lot, no. She never stopped talking... at all. I got in, mmhmm, yes, oh, uhuhh... that's it... I made it to drinks with that one. The other one, I bored to sleep (literally, she fell asleep). I could go on and on.... It sounds like you need a new pond to look in for the right fish. Dating can be brutal. Dr. Kuriansky's book is a good read on the subject. She seems to think 3 out of 10 dates (on average) yields a decent contact worth following up on.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 15:32:37 GMT -8
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Triangle
Feb 2, 2018 18:11:40 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 2, 2018 18:11:40 GMT -8
Dang I haven’t been on an actual date in quite some time. I never do it, actually. Men around here rarely ask women out at all. And if they do, it’s the bottom of the barrel as I described. My method has been to just live my life and meet people organically. And I meet lots of folks all the time. I build friendships, I develop closer relationship over time and maybe even a crush here and there. It’s not all freaks...many (most?) are great guys who are certainly peers. Some I see as worthwhile to date. They’ll flirt and seem to have a mutual interest, but then nothing. So I’d hate to resort to actual dating apps or dating games, etc when meeting new folks is pretty easy anyway. I don’t want a bunch of blind dates or to have the context of dating when I’m meeting strangers. Just another example of how I feel I’m doing it the right, healthy way...but it goes nowhere. Ever. Well I guess I had a boyfriend a couple of times in the past & years...but generally it’s one big dry spell for romance, yet I’m constantly surrounded by attractive, single guys who are suitable. It’s downtight bizarre. Who knows...the apps may be the only way to do it now days. Long gone are the days when I could spark up a new romance as easily as changing socks!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 18:55:33 GMT -8
... Long gone are the days when I could spark up a new romance as easily as changing socks!! I got this flirting thing down pat. I just went out to grab a bite at a local pizza place. The girl working up front (retail people are easy to practice flirting with because they are already paid to be nice, just don't be under the illusion that it could go anywhere) was working so very hard and no one was noticing. All I did was point out how well she ran the front and then I commented on her makeup (she was painted up a bit) and asked if she had a date later because she was so well put together. Of course she confesses, no I never get my Friday's off! I'm always stuck here! (Free information). If I were really going for it, I would have asked her what her days off were and the offer to take her for coffee. But she continued! Oh, and my birthday is in a few days and they wouldn't even give me the day off! (more free information). And I'm telling her what a crying shame this is while she twirls her hair... Of course nothing came of it, I took my order and wished her a happy birthday, but I think you get the point. You can flirt in a very organic fashion almost anywhere. Something like Speed Dating just opens you up to more people more quickly who are all there with the intention of finding mate material.
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Post by paisley on Feb 3, 2018 5:50:14 GMT -8
That must be what’s happening to me when guys flirt with me. They’re just practicing!
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Triangle
Feb 3, 2018 6:03:47 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Havefaith on Feb 3, 2018 6:03:47 GMT -8
Yes, that wasn't particularly helpful or encouraging...
The good news is that you recognize who is not healthy and right for you. Definitely a step in a positive direction! It took me years to quell my attraction to unhealthy and I almost lost everything near and dear to me, pursuing men who were charasmatic but deeply flawed (ie narcissists, gambling addicts, porn addicts, need I say more lol).
Keep moving in the positive direction!
HaveFaith
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 6:20:00 GMT -8
... They’re just practicing! That is all this sort of thing is. It's a little dance. A smile or touching hair or eye contact can all be signs that a person is interested in you. Do you know the sure fire way to know if someone finds you attractive? Eye pupil dialation... The wider the pupil the more they like what they see. I think my point would be, if you need different possible candidates for partnering, you may have to widen the parameters of your search.
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Post by paisley on Feb 3, 2018 17:03:50 GMT -8
Well that's the thing...I'm not searching. I'm just living my life and meeting people naturally. I meet new people all the time. Having more men around is not an issue. They are literally everywhere. I spark up conversations, they spark up conversations, we share activities. I have men showing interest. It just never goes anywhere...unless it's with someone that I don't want to be with. I would never do online dating. Never.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 17:46:18 GMT -8
Well that's the thing...I'm not searching. I'm just living my life and meeting people naturally. I meet new people all the time. Having more men around is not an issue. They are literally everywhere. I spark up conversations, they spark up conversations, we share activities. I have men showing interest. It just never goes anywhere...unless it's with someone that I don't want to be with. I would never do online dating. Never. You just got done describing a stable of men a few posts ago like one might open a freezer to see what meat is fresh and what is freezer burnt... Are you certain you are not searching a little? I don't know how to come back from this. I would like to hold up a mirror to you and show you to yourself as you toss your hands up in futility. I'm just trying to say you have options in your search. You do not have to leave things to serendipity. It's ok to be purposeful in your search. If you don't define and widen your parameters a little you end up being a unicorn hunter. Let me illustrate using my own current requirements... No tattoos No Hair dyed funny colors No piercings beyond ears 30 something (or younger) No previous marriage No children (but wants lots) Christian Specific political orientation I could go on, but you get the idea, the more of these you add in the smaller of a circle you proscribe around you. Fortunately for me, my partner fits all these variables...
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Post by Havefaith on Feb 4, 2018 4:19:01 GMT -8
"30 something (or younger)"
Do people have expiration dates? Lose their value after '30 something' ?
HaveFaith
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 5:09:23 GMT -8
"30 something (or younger)" Do people have expiration dates? Lose their value after '30 something' ? Frankly, from a certain perspective, yes... Specifically, if one is looking to reproduce, younger females offer a longer time within which they will be fertile and capable of producing offspring. I'm not really interested in people older than I am. I would prefer a 30 something (or younger) person to be with. That's my honest needs. *shrug*
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Post by paisley on Feb 4, 2018 6:26:58 GMT -8
My issues are more about having my abandonment issues triggered when I feel rejected by a man who is choosing another woman. I think I need to step back and give that another hard look before seeking a new partner. Really, I made a pretty conscious effort a few years ago to focus on my passions, activities, adventures and build a life for myself with the understanding that if someone compatible comes along, it will be automatic...not something I have to put forth much thought or effort to achieve. And that happened...this guy was right along my side for the past two years in the form of a friend, then a lover, then a friend again. Navigating him moving on is the problem right now. I feel like I made a mistake in letting him go as a lover and I want him back. The problem is that he cares for this other gal and she cares for him. He doesn't want to let her go...he wants to see if it works out. So I'm also analyzing whether my sudden re-interest is real or just because I'm jealous and feel rejected. But it has me evaluating what I saw in him, why I rejected him...all that and I just keep coming to the conclusion that I made a mistake in letting him go. So I'm obsessing over him. I"m not eating, I'm making myself sick and taking some giant leaps backwards with regards to my own wellbeing. Meeting new men is not a problem at all. Actually, I had a long talk with a girlfriend yesterday and we both see a need to tighten my circle of acquaintance. In particular cull the herd of guy buddies who I don't want to date. I'm surrounded by guys as a rule and this is a barrier to me finding something more meaningful. My conditions for having people around are very broad. Basically, they need to be NICE people and that's pretty much it. As a result I"m surrounded by nice people, which is pretty awesome. I'm not particular about looks, not horribly particular about money (although being a productive, functioning member of society is required) and I feel the rest sorts itself out as far as compatibility. If there's one thing I've learned in recovery, I can't just make it happen, so there's really no sense in having many required parameters in mind. He could turn out to be completely different from what I'd "build" for myself. I'm not in control. I know that much. . As it is, I'm getting loads of attention from men and doing a ton of rejecting. It would be exhausting to purposefully add to the mix by seeking dates online. Quality, not quantity is the mantra at this point. I need to work on no contact and getting healthy. Mornings seem to be the hardest time. . I'm hoping that not having him by my side (as he has been for 2 years) will leave a void that something good fills. Right now I just feel pain though. I really didn't realize how attached to him I am. He helped me through a horrible trauma and has been there in every way imaginable. Now he's with someone else and it kills me.
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Post by paisley on Feb 4, 2018 13:47:48 GMT -8
I am having a horrible day. So much pain. Talked to my girlfriends and cried a lot over how good he has been to me and how I really do not want o lose him. I do indeed feel like I made a horrible mistake in pushing him away before.
I cam't believe I'm this depressed and it's lasting this long. I'm just SO DOWN.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 14:32:35 GMT -8
... how good he has been to me and how I really do not want to lose him. I do indeed feel like I made a horrible mistake in pushing him away ... I feel that way about one of my other past girlfriends. H. was so very much in love with me when I was 19 and 20. I was at the top of my fitness and it was an amazing relationship. She would write me these hand written (calligraphy) letter with perfume.... She was so very good to me and she would have been, and indeed did become, an amazing mother. I do regret letting her go and ending the relationship. I should have toughed it out, but she did indeed deserve better than I could give at the time. I was not bothered to learn the H. was pregnant. I was very very happy for her. I knew that was what she deeply wanted.
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Post by paisley on Feb 6, 2018 5:37:49 GMT -8
I can't even get one day of no contact. I unfriended him on FB, but I'm still texting him daily. I just can't seem to let it go. I want him in my life. I want it 100%. Trying so hard to get him here. He tells me he is conflicted and feels like he's going to hurt one of us either way. I feel she does not have the history with him that I do...she can move on. She can get back on her dating app and find another. But the truth is, he cares for her and she cares for him. They are a couple. I have no place in the middle of that and I need to get myself out of this ASAP. I can make it hard on her if/when they try to hang out with my friends. I'm just going to make myself look petty and naive though, like I already am with him. Who knows what he's sharing with her too. They could be having a big laugh at my expense. I feel so down...I can't believe I could get to this place again, but here I am. Pathetic.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 6, 2018 10:37:46 GMT -8
While God is always there for us during withdrawal nothing happens without a little will power. While you mind is still addicted it is important for you to take control of your behavior and keep trying to practice no contact. You may have to go to extraordinary lengths to do this but it is important.
How you think at this is also important. I doubt if they are laughing at you. Imagine your future right now. Imagine that you meet the a much better person and are grateful that this relationship did not work out. You can do this.
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Triangle
Feb 7, 2018 4:50:18 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by paisley on Feb 7, 2018 4:50:18 GMT -8
He came over last night to tell me he wants to see where it goes with her. Wants me to give him some time to do that.
Also says he loves me.
Trying hard to reach a place of acceptance where I feel sorry for her being with a man who keeps plan b on a string. Also trying to resist the urge to reach out to her and tell her that her boyfriend was here last night telling me he loves me and wants me to wait so they can get whatever this is out of the way. I feel like he has sabotaged so many of my choices it’s only fair I sabotage his too. Yes, I know that would be wrong and childish.
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Triangle
Feb 7, 2018 4:55:47 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by paisley on Feb 7, 2018 4:55:47 GMT -8
And I’ve already texted him. The sun isn’t even up.
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Post by Havefaith on Feb 7, 2018 7:01:44 GMT -8
I am so sorry this man seems to think this behavior is acceptable.
None of this seems honorable to me, unless he is being 100% upfront with his present girlfriend. Even then, to string people along (seeing someone, telling another wait around while I figure this out because "I love you") is, in my opinion, unethical. Straddling both sides of the fence -- this is not deciding on which dinner to choose from a menu! This is manipulation and toying with people's emotions.
I know what I would do. A person who thinks they can keep their 'options open' when it comes to people? That does not work for me. People like that are not allowed into my life. And the risky thing is, once this man makes a decision, who is to say he won't change his mind again. Two words come to mind for me -- WALK AWAY. Truly, no ethical person would put another in that position...
HaveFaith
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Triangle
Feb 7, 2018 7:50:41 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 7, 2018 7:50:41 GMT -8
Thanks, HF. He is telling me he wishes he knew how I felt prior to him starting things up with her. In his defense, I’ve been pushing him away and now all of a sudden I’m like “no! I want you 100%!” He says I broke his heart and it would not be right to just dump her because I changed my mind. I guess I need to let it go and let what happens happen. I really have no choice anyway. It’s him wanting to keep my friendship that is killing me. Apparently he has moved on from the rejection from me and sees me as a friend. He’s still wanting to help me with the family member (major stress) and I’m otherwise all alone with this. My siblings are mia and due to the dynamics this has honestly evolved into a situation where he is my sole support. My depression is overwhelming and consuming. Now with him seeing someone else my anorexia is in full swing. I sufferered dehydration last week. I have to force food and drink down and I’m always nauseated. Slowly killing myself and I’m 100% desireless and without appetite every day. My only focus is convincing him to come “home” and dump her. So he may lack some honor but the crazy is all on me.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 7, 2018 9:15:50 GMT -8
Your pain will only continue if you maintain in contact. This dance could go on forever if you let it.
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