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Post by Havefaith on Feb 7, 2018 11:19:19 GMT -8
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Post by Havefaith on Feb 7, 2018 11:27:34 GMT -8
"But we need to keep our hearts in an attitude of detachment, maintaining a sort of freedom, a distance, an inner reserve, that will mean that if some particular thing, or habit, or relationship, or personal plan is taken from us, we don’t make a drama out of being deprived of it. Such detachment should be exercised in all aspects of our lives" (Jacque Phillipe)
This is most definitely part of my journey. Although this quotation may sound a bit grim (especially taken out of context), it is actually liberating.
HaveFaith
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 7, 2018 12:59:42 GMT -8
Triangles: The Agony and Ecstasy
Susan Peabody
Sane people get out of a triangle as soon as they realize they are in one. Love addicts stay engaged hoping things will resolve themselves in time. This is because love addicts can’t let go. They have no tolerance for separation anxiety. Once they have bonded with someone, letting go is like death to them. Some love addicts in a triangle will die trying to get to a resolution. They kill themselves or they kill someone in the triangle. The media is full of Crimes of the Heart. Searching for the triangle One of the reasons love addicts have a high tolerance for the pain of a triangle is because when they were children the natural triangle between the mother, father and child, went horribly wrong. Usually the child was rejected by one of the parents and incested by the other—not necessarily sexual incest but certainly covert or emotional incest. The rejection/incest magnifies the triangle. The Oedipus experience, in which the child adores one parent and is in competition with the other, is not outgrown with little impact on the child’s future. Instead it becomes rooted in the child’s psyche and wounds him or her. All this means that the triangle is familiar and in some respects comfortable. This, in turn, means that the person involved has a high tolerance for the pain and suffering of the triangle once they get involved in one. Furthermore some love addicts unconsciously try to resolve the wound of their childhood by recreating the triangle of their childhood—over and over again. They are obsessed with the idea that things will end differently each time. Unfortunately, this is not how you heal the wounds of childhood. You don’t go back to the scene of the crime and commit the crime all over again. You go back to the scene of the crime in therapy with an enlightened witness to guide you. You go back to grieve, forgive, let go and move on. There are also those who accept the down side of the triangle for the ecstasy that often goes with it. Triangles can be like roller coasters. When one person in the triangle is, momentarily, the front runner he or she is as high as a kite. But everyone pays such a high price for the thrill of being chosen at any given moment—the winner of the competition. This, too, is often tied in with the early Oedipus experience in which the child is trying to get the parent she adores to choose her over the other parent. Love Triangles are Unhealthy
The most important thing to know about triangles is that they are unhealthy, painful, and potentially dangerous. Dr. Phil says this over and over again and I concur. We are meant to be monogamous for more reasons than I can recount here. Only hedonists and sex addicts really defend the agony and ecstasy of the triangle. I also agree with Dr. Phil when he says there are rarely three willing partners in a ménagé a trois. Someone is usually unhappy even if they don’t admit it. So if you ever find yourself in a triangle get out. Walk away. Cut your losses. Even if you are married with kids, walk away until your partner gets into recovery and gives up his, or her, penchant for multiple partners. Love Triangle Case Study: Andrea, John & Sandra
Andrea was a codependent love addict, the partner in a relationship who hangs on for dear life and has a high tolerance for suffering neglect, and sometimes, abuse. Codependent love addicts (also known as relationship addicts) are constantly trying to fix a relationship. Their sensitivity to separation anxiety makes it impossible for them to cut their losses and move on. She went into therapy to get help with her boyfriend John. Andrea and John arrived for their first session. Rather than help Andrea with her codependency the counselor tried to help John with his romance addiction (addiction to multiple partners). He became the “identified patient.” John had always been a romance addict. He was handsome and intelligent. He loved women and began cheating on his wife of twenty years six months into the marriage. After his divorce he dated up to five women at a time. Five minutes into the session the counselor asked him why he was there. “I want to settle down,” he said. “I want to stop being a womanizer.” “Can you help me?” he asked. “I don’t know,” the counselor said. “Are you willing to change?” “Yes,” he said quickly. The counselor outlined a program of recovery for John. It was simple. Recovery for romance addicts is monogamy. “Choose the woman you want to settle down with,” she told John, “and we will work through the anxiety you feel when you commit to just one woman.” John agreed to this plan and made an appointment for the next night. The next night John arrived promptly at 8:00 o’clock with a woman named Sandra. He introduced her to the counselor as the woman he truly loved and wanted to settle down with. The counselor felt a little uncomfortable and wasn’t quite sure what to do. She had assumed, for some reason, that John would come back the next night with Andrea. Sandra was nice. John was nice. They were obviously in love. They held hands during the session and looked adoringly into each other’s eyes. So what was the problem? Unfortunately, as the counselor was soon to learn, John was just as much in love with Andrea and had the innate ability to be in the moment with each of these women. When he was with Andrea she had his full attention. When he was with Sandra she was the only one for him. The counselor was not sure whether she should categorize him as a good con artist or a sick man, but since she tended to be a compassionate person by nature, she decided that what she was calling John’s romance addiction was not the result of narcissism per se but a deep-seated fear of intimacy with any one woman. The counselor recommended some books to John and Sandra and sent them on their way. In parting she said, “go to some workshops.” She also asked John to come back if he felt himself backsliding from his commitment to Sandra and the monogamous lifestyle. Little did she know what she was saying. Two days later John called the counselor. “I have to see you,” he said, “it is urgent. I have changed my mind. Andrea is the one I want to be with. I love her.” Against her better judgment (for the second time but not the last), the counselor agreed to see John and Andrea. Right off she confronted John about his ambivalence. “I don’t want to get caught up in this triangle,” she declared. “You have to choose one woman here.” “There is no doubt about it,” he declared. “Andrea is my choice.” “OK,” she finally said. Then she repeated the same advice she had given him and Sandra. “Get into couples therapy and go to some workshops.” For good measure she added, “read some books and stay the course.” A week later Andrea called the counselor. “John is cheating on me,” she said. I caught him with Sandra. I am following them now. They are just leaving the hotel. What shall I do?” “Go home,” the counselor suggested. Call me tomorrow. I need some time to think about this.” A few months later Andrea called the counselor to say that John had chosen her the night before but that now he was in the bathroom crying. She felt he was having a nervous breakdown because he was giving up the other woman. The counselor thought that perhaps this time John really was trying to choose and was now in full blown withdrawal because the other relationship was over. The counselor knew, by this time, that she was in over her head so she suggested that Andrea find a clinic where she could take John. Andrea quickly made arrangements to take John to a rehab center in the Mid-West that specialized in treating love addicts. The clinic was able to help John choose one of the women and eventually they were married. This author has no idea how they are doing. Final Thoughts
One final note about triangles. There is a lot of role playing and everyone’s role changes from time to time. The three major roles in any triangle are the Victim, the Narcissist and the Rescuer. One player may start out as a victim and end up becoming the rescuer or narcissist. In the case study above, Andrea, was the first woman to meet John so when he started cheating on her she was the victim and he the narcissist. Sandra was initially a victim because John said he was not seeing anyone else. When Andrea and Sandra found out about each other, and made the decision to stay, and “work things out,” they both stopped being the victim and became willing participants. Andrea (the more codependent of the two) decided the best way to resolve the situation was to become John’s rescuer so she brought him to me for help—and later the clinic. When John willingly came to me for help he stopped being the narcissist for awhile, and became (because his romance addiction was rooted in some deep-seated childhood trauma) a victim. When John brought Sandra to the rehab center he became the narcissist again. His self-gratification was all that mattered to him. Then, both women, by coming to family week, began to compete for who was the best rescuer. Finally, when John married Andrea, Sandra became the narcissist by stalking them both. It can't be said enough. If you are in a triangle get out. Don’t play the game hoping to win. It is not worth it. [/div]
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 7, 2018 14:06:40 GMT -8
Addendum
Some Triangles are just in you head. You are married but you fantasize about someone else. This kind of triangle can destroy a relationship.
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Triangle
Feb 7, 2018 14:49:13 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 7, 2018 14:49:13 GMT -8
Yes indeed. I know my high tolerance stems from the triangle between my parents and I going horribly wrong. My dad beat me and my mom didn’t protect me. I’ve spent my whole life trying to re-create and resolve that. Or maybe I’m just trying to wallow in that pain. I rejected this guy before. The reason was the triangle and his inability to move on from his ex, who was attached to him. If I go back further, when I first met him and he was pursuing me, he had a gal throw herself on him offering easy, no strings attached sex. He took her up on it right under my nose. His reasoning was because I was not accepting his advanced. He was freshly divorced and I thought it was too soon. Regardless, I have always held that incident over him. That he took the easy, cheap offer instead of choosing to decline and maybe get things going with me. He ended up getting me anyway a year later, but I see we’ve never been in a relationship without some sort of triangle, whether it be his ex calling up when we were dating, or my resentment over the initial cheap-easy choice he made. So why, after so much progress in recovery and having all this awareness over why I do what I do that I’m STILL doing it....has me really messed up right now. One good thing, I suppose...he wanted to see me briefly tonight to help with the relative and I tried to turn it into a plea for him to come home with me, which he refused...so I’m opting out and going bowling instead. I HAVE TO LET THIS GO. Putting the healthiest spin possible on this, I pushed him away, he moved on and it is inappropriate for me to try to lure him back. In reality, I’m likely being repeatedly triggered over the past two years by someone who presented me with a triangle right off the bat. He was single and owed me nothing, but I chose to get sucked into his “regrets” and allowed him into my life in a major way, and thus I burned myself. Repeatedly. I must stop it now. Maybe tomorrow I can celebrate 24 hours of NC.
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Triangle
Feb 8, 2018 6:39:35 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 8, 2018 6:39:35 GMT -8
Thanks, BP.
Well, he’s being very clear that he wants to be with her, not me. If I’m to remain in his life it’s as a platonic friend and nothing more until/unless this doesn’t work out for him.
I haven’t reached out to him yet today, although the cravings are so strong when I wake up.
Going out last night lifted my spirits a bit. Although it was the same ole routine. Was out with a group of folks (a Meetup) and an ole guy I don’t want to date was asking me out, paid for my games, wants to see me again, etc.
I also reached out to a guy who has been asking me to contact him for some lessons, and he replied saying it’s not really what he does but he may be able to find some time to get together for some tips/tricks. Same old thing...a guy showing interest then when I respond he’s aloof. I really don’t understand any of this, but perhaps all my tears have been cried and I’m on my way back to sanity soon.
Winter is such a big depression trigger for me and this year has been especially gloomy and cold.
Oh, I also had an ex (the much younger guy from a while back) call up out of the blue wallowing in his own loneliness and depression wanting to get together just for physical contact. I rejected him flat. I can’t imagine purposefully letting someone touch me with no meaning attached. The world has gone mad.
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Triangle
Feb 8, 2018 14:32:26 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 8, 2018 14:32:26 GMT -8
Made it 24 hours without reaching out to POA. Felt ok off and on, but the depression is still overwhelming at times. Only had to break to go cry a couple of times. Big improvement from yesterday when I practically weeped openly at my desk all day. No contact is key, for sure. I’m not putting myself out there for constant rejection. Now to stay off social media. I unfriended him but we are so connected it’s hard not to see his name pop up. Also snooped and saw a flirty thing she posted to him and it crushed me again. I just have to remember I’m projecting unmet needs upon him. This is an illusion. It still doesn’t seem to help curb the depression. It’s overwhelming and really I don’t think I’ve been this down since I discovered LA eight years ago. I try to remember I felt this way about the POA I had right after my divorce and was utterly convinced I had to be with that guy or I’d die. Now that’s laughable because that POA and I resumed a friendship 4 years ago and he’s so wrong for me I recently blocked him on social media, blocked his phone #, etc because he was sending me ignorant political memes all the time. He’s an idiot and I can no longer stand him! This current POA is a much better person, but surely I will not die without him and I must remember that. This is all an illusion. Dang, it feels so real though. And this POA is only part of the depression. It’s really my overall inability to be in a relationship that has me so down. No hopes, no prospects. Just one dead end after the next. It’s gotten so old, and I’ve been doing things right as far as not trying and focusing on my life. I just wonder if all that not trying was actually a mistake.
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Triangle
Feb 8, 2018 15:05:45 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 8, 2018 15:05:45 GMT -8
Thinking about going to SLAA meetings again. I’m lucky to have several meetings in my city. Also lucky to have several female friends who have been through this. Going out to eat with two guy friends tonight, then maybe meet up with some gals at a pub for a birthday celebration. Feeling bad because POA and I (and our friends) were planning on a live music show tomorrow night, but I threw a fit and threatened to tell the new girlfriend about him saying he loves me, etc. I threatened to be unwelcoming towards her and do my best to run her off. I’m guessing he will not show. At least not with her. Dang, I can be a horrible human being.
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Triangle
Feb 9, 2018 4:19:01 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 9, 2018 4:19:01 GMT -8
Thanks, BP. It has crossed my mind that this is yet another way that I push people away. But now the hold seems to be lifting. What helped was reminding myself that this is exactly how I’ve felt towards old POAs, guys who I now have zero feelings toward. I ended up texting POA a short apology. Not to manipulate, but because I honestly regret stooping to that level. I also invited him to dinner with me and the guy friends which he declined due to having plans, and there was no sting from that. No urges to contact him this morning. What helped was inviting him to dinner then realizing I didn’t really want him there because it was with two intellectuals, and POA’can irritate me in those situations when he blurts out nonsense. Hmmm, one of the reasons I split with him. . Maybe my rational mind has come back! I feel like I can be around him and leave him alone. Not sure I want to be around the two of them as a couple. Apparently he’s got plans all weekend with family (and probably her too) so I won’t be running into him. Time to focus on other things, like my health. Had a good meal last night for the first time in a couple of weeks. Was able to talk about my stresses with a couple of friends and get hugs. I think I’m ready to let go and let this sort itself out. I certainly can’t manage it. Let’s hope this sanity sticks around for a while.
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Triangle
Feb 9, 2018 11:46:44 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 9, 2018 11:46:44 GMT -8
Thank you! Yes I see now it was a perfect storm of triggers. The issues with this relative had me depressed to begin with. Then winter came on and my usual seasonal depression was worse than ever. The weather has been colder and gloomier than normal. Then I was hit with two illnesses that left me more isolated. Then POAs last girlfriend blaming me for their breakup. Then me focusing on our emotional connection again. Then some greasy dude asking me out the same night I see POA with the new girl and they seemed so happy. No wonder my OCD kicked into high gear. I’m surprised I haven’t slit my wrists!! Anyway, no tears today.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 19:01:23 GMT -8
... texting POA a short apology. ... I was never one to go in for the "19 signs you're .... whatever". Some articles have included that sort of chronic apologizing as a "hoovering" technique sometimes ascribed to "narcissists" (whatever that really means). I have crafted some really compelling "apologies" over the years. I never got the result I hoped for from it. Currently, I'm trying not to make excuses for past behavior but instead focus on present behaviors. Ironically, this comes across as arrogance and that too is somehow lumped in with the label of "narcissism". lonerwolf.com/hoovering/
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 9, 2018 19:24:12 GMT -8
... texting POA a short apology. ... I was never one to go in for the "19 signs you're .... whatever". Some articles have included that sort of chronic apologizing as a "hoovering" technique sometimes ascribed to "narcissists" (whatever that really means). I have crafted some really compelling "apologies" over the years. I never got the result I hoped for from it. Currently, I'm trying not to make excuses for past behavior but instead focus on present behaviors. Ironically, this comes across as arrogance and that too is somehow lumped in with the label of "narcissism". lonerwolf.com/hoovering/ You do not owe your PoA an apology and it is a waste of time to ask them for one. You can tell them you forgive them and thank them for teaching you what to avoid in the future,
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Post by paisley on Feb 10, 2018 7:18:35 GMT -8
True, I don't owe him an apology. It was more for me, due to feeling bad about getting so immature and threatening to mess things up for him with his girlfriend. That was out of line and I regret saying it, so I am sorry for it.
Apologizing is not something I find myself doing repeatedly or often, but I think it's OK to do when the feeling is genuine, which it is in this case.
Yesterday was a day of letting go mentally. This POA also helps me with a relative, which makes it tricky. I feel I NEED his help in this, and he's willing to do it...he actually won't consider NOT doing it, but he would stop if I insisted upon it. Thing is, this relative is more receptive to him than me at this point. It is in the relative's best interest for this POA to be around. I can accept his help and limit my time around him, which I will.
He is serious about this girlfriend and will be branching off in another direction with other people and that caused a panic in me for multiple reasons. We will run into each other due to our lives being very connected via mutual friends, mutual interests, etc. My relationship with him is on par with having a family member that I cannot "disown" or avoid 100%, or with a co-worker that I can't choose or fire to suit my preferences. Almost the same level as having a shared child and being stuck in a co-parenting situation. We can minimize our contact, but we cannot eliminate it 100% without greatly re-structuring our lives and the lives of others. I realize he has no legal or ethical obligations like the examples I cite, but he has voluntarily filled a role that my own family refuses to fill, and I can't even explain how much that's helped me not give up and not totally self-destruct. I know that sounds dramatic, but it's how I see it. It's why I idolize him and feel he is my savior...he literally saved me.
So I want to get to a place of accepting this new gal in his life. I have to understand I pushed him away. It makes me sad that I do that...that I pull people in and then push them away. That needs to be my focus...my ambivalence and feeling smothered every time I get what I WANT in a relationship. And if I push away for good reason (like a triangle) then I need to reach a place of acceptance that I made the right choice and the situation was wrong for me and there's no need to keep regretting it and then trying to pull someone close who no longer wants to be with me in that context. He's not doing this to me, I'm doing it to myself.
I want to get to a place of loving him and respecting him *as a friend* because the romance was toxic for me but he's so ridiculously THERE for me in so many ways with regards to the help he has offered. I want to be mature and be happy for him for finding someone more suitable for him than I was. I think I had to grieve the loss of having him to myself and being his priority. That's an old childhood wound. Dad beating me and mom not seeing it my way...that dad's actions were unmistakably WRONG and my wellbeing and comfort should have been mom's priority, but it wasn't. These triangles stir that up and I feel that pain from childhood all over again...the confusion in not understanding why I'm not worthy of being chosen and prioritized. Well I kind of broke up with him months ago and forced him to get over me and move on. That's what happened.
I'm wrong here. I'm wrong and out of line to expect him to drop this new girlfriend and attend to me and my push/pull. I'm just wrong, and I'm sorry for spewing all this misplaced pain upon him. And no, it's not very often I apologize because I generally live up to my values and conduct myself in a respectful manner. But in this case, I am simply wrong to expect this of him. I don't want or expect him to apologize to me...all that was hashed out months ago when we broke up. There's nothing to forgive at this point. Maybe forgiving my (now deceased) parents, but not him. He is not doing anything to me except refusing to allow me to toy with him and refusing to allow me to control his decisions.
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Post by paisley on Feb 12, 2018 12:42:19 GMT -8
Feeling much better today! Dang, I really tore loose on the POA this time. Regaining sanity feels like waking up from a long nightmare. I can’t believe my thoughts and behaviors. At least it was a fairly quick process this time, but I feel like it was very intense and I did a lot of damage. My friends have stepped up and comforted me, and I’m soothing myself and sucking up to the fact that I can’t just throw people away and then reel them back in as it suits me. Regardless, I don’t think he’ll be bringing the girlfriend around me again for the foreseeable future which is good. With my clear mind I can see I don’t want to get close to her or be her friend, which is probably wise. I can re-asses this when/if it turns into a long-term thing, but for now I’m just excusing myself from their dating life 100%. This is forcing him to go off in different directions which is probably best for us both, but my inner child doesn’t like it...but she can’t be trusted to make such decisions. I know if/when their relationship crumbles he will be at my door and part of me is happy for that and part of me is scared to death of it, so apparently I am still ambivalent about a relationship with him so apparently his rejection was a good call on his part. I am working hard to get my happy life back in place and I have lots of good things on my calendar. Met an amazing older woman at dinner with a friend last night and it reminded me that I’m not finished yet. No sense living my days with gloom and regret. There’s a lot of living to do still. I don’t want to be bogged down by this any more.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 12, 2018 17:03:23 GMT -8
Congratulations!
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Post by paisley on Feb 20, 2018 18:42:42 GMT -8
Feeling foolish again. Things got out of hand Sunday with me thinking he was going to dump his gf. I was so wrong. He said he loved me and wanted to be with me, made several comments about how sexy I am and I initiated physical contact which he obliged. Stopped short of having sex, actually because he stopped it. He said he didn't want ME to disrespect him. All that lead me to believe he wanted to be with me and had made up his mind about dumping his gf. Later I had to go up to the ER to deal with my relative he's helping me with and he stayed with me the whole time and comforted me. We even made plans for next Saturday. I was thinking I'd give him the week to wrap things up with this girl. Then I know he was with his gf last night and tonight too because he couldn't meet me to help with this relative. I'm rejected again and I went off on him via text. He says he is in love with two women and doesn't know what to do. He doesn't want to hurt either of us. I got all hurt and told him I'm reliving him of this dilemma and I'm done. Can't stop sobbing. I don't know why I take these steps backwards. I don't know how my rational mind keeps shutting off. I feel like Sunday was one big day of acting out. I even cancelled some healthy activities with friends so I could spend the day with POA. I'm so emotionally broken! I know I did it to myself. I know NC is the only way out of this. It's just killing me right now. I know I will be better soon. Just really tired of this cycle. I also told him not to come around me or my relative anymore. I'm just going to have to deal with it and I'm super upset about that. The relative was asking for him today. I feel childish and selfish that I can't let him go see the relative on his own time (like he wanted to do today...before he went to see his gf). It's just making me crazy. I can't stand him not wanting to help WITH ME BY HIS SIDE. I honestly can't stand it. I can't stomach him helping my relative on his way to see his gf.
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Post by paisley on Feb 20, 2018 19:10:32 GMT -8
Maybe my rational mind is coming back. My abandonment issues have been really triggered with the thought of cutting him out with regards to this relative. But I'm just going to have to do it alone. Really, what this gf of his has is a guy who had his hands and mouth in places yesterday that would horrify me if that was my boyfriend. Not to mention the things he said. He was setting up a scenario where he was seeing us both...unless he was planning to bail on me, which he basically has yesterday and today by seeing my relative without me then going to see the gf and cutting me out of the equation. Putting the best spin on his behavior, it got out of hand and now he regrets it. I need to see him as someone else's boyfriend and perhaps the kind of boyfriend I don't want anyway. He can be so freakin' nice and helpful...but getting back to the original issue I had with him, his boundaries are poor. He cannot hurt anyone's feelings so he hurts everyone's feelings, if that makes sense. Good lord, let her deal with that sh**. Right? If it works for them, then it's best because maybe he doesn't trigger her like he does me. Maybe she can handle the way he conducts himself and maybe now he's "done" lining up plan Bs and it going to settle down happily. Maybe they are actually compatible and I need to excuse myself. Let them sort it out while I let it go. I so want to let it go. I have been dealing with so much self-inflicted agony lately. Ironically this is after I started meditating and trying to learn to be zen. It's like my brain has gone haywire and I can't settle it down anymore. My thoughts (which are illusions) are running my life and I need to get this in check. I'm just not spiritually well right now.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2018 22:43:59 GMT -8
... I don't know why I take these steps backwards. ... It's a kind of repetition. We replay the bad situation in hopes that a different outcome will occur. I've been trying to distract myself with work, but today really anti-social thoughts have been creeping in. It's very uncomfortable and just serves to make me upset. I can't really choose to not have them play out in my head. It's a similar repetition. I'm trying to think over my situation in hopes that I can create or imagine an outcome more to my baser self's liking.
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Triangle
Feb 21, 2018 7:07:36 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 21, 2018 7:07:36 GMT -8
I did some meditation last night whereby I let the thoughts pop up, then I identify or label them, thus separating myself from these illusions. I found it very helpful at the time. I woke up very weepy though. Had a dream where I was living in this house, but POA’s gf was to move into my room and I was supposed to remove all my stuff so she could move in. I walked into the room and some of her stuff was there but my stuff was still in the closet. I didn’t want to accommodate her by taking it out. I felt so helpless knowing someone else would move it if I didn’t. No complex symbolism to decode there!! Just feeling alone and replaced. I’ve been ok with him dating others before, so that’s not it. It’s cutting him out as a friend that’s making me uneasy. Disappointed with myself for not being able to navigate a friendship with him without wanting something in return. I feel extremely needy and possessive and I know this is my pattern. I meet someone who falls in love with me, I panic and push him away, I start to feel needy and change my mind and then get to work on taking him hostage. The best I can hope for in that scenario is having a man who resents being had. The other side of the coin is his gf breaking up with him eventually, then him wanting me again. Then I bring all this resentment with me because I will never forget being rejected in favor of a gal he met on a dating app and has known a short time. I suppose it’s ruined either way so I need to work on getting over this.
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Post by paisley on Feb 22, 2018 5:04:33 GMT -8
I had a good day yesterday, but then he texted wanting to know if he could come to the hospital. He wants to see my relative but I had told him not to earlier. But I want him there. I was there and I said yes, I wanted him there. I did, but of course I was just setting myself up for heartache again. I brought up how he has no intention of breaking things off with this gal and he agreed, he doesn't. I asked what he was doing there with me and he said he doesn't want to give up on being there for my relative. ike this has nothing to do with me. I'm out of the equation and I'm crushed over that. I asked him to leave and he did. Gut wrenching evening for me. It set me back again and I haven't been eating or drinking or working out. Cancelled plans to go have some fun in favor of staying home and crying and just going to bed...then not really sleeping.
Had an awful dream this morning that he was in my bed and being intimate, then when I looked at him he was crying, feeling guilty because he's in love with someone else. I woke up in a sheer panic. It's cold and rainy outside with no end in sight and I'm losing my mind over this.
Later last night I texted him saying it was OK for him to see the relative...perhaps I just didn't need to hear about it. I don't know how it will work, but I can't in good conscience cut him out of this relative's life just because I'm not getting what I want from him. Time is limited too, I likely cannot give these two people more time in the distant future after I get over him.
I AM SO UPSET. I need to get back to the place where I see this as the best thing. Like I told him, we broke up months ago, but we never really broke up until now. I'm losing him. I've lost him. Regardless of our romantic situation, he was there for me and now I'm losing him and I'm torn up over it. Cannot stop crying, don't know how I'll make it through this day.
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Triangle
Feb 22, 2018 11:59:00 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Havefaith on Feb 22, 2018 11:59:00 GMT -8
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Post by paisley on Feb 22, 2018 16:07:24 GMT -8
Yes I always feel better when I withdraw. But I am justifying keeping him connected with the excuse that he's helping my relative, and he is reaching out regularly with regards to that. If he handles it without me, I get deeply upset and if he handles it with me, I get inappropriate. That's the thing, I can't find a comfortable place in a platonic friendship with him. I'm either trying to seduce him or raging at him for rejecting me. I don't understand why I'm CRAVING him like I am. Also, he has dated other gals and I was generally 95% OK with it and just occasionally questioned whether I had made a mistake in rejecting him a few months ago. I haven't been set off like this in years. Seriously, a month ago I didn't really care what he was doing and was irritated when he always wanted to hang out with me! It's bizarre. I don't know how I went from being irritated by him to feeling like he's the love of my life that got away and possibly my last chance at something good. I know seeing him happy with that gal made me panic, like I'm being abandoned and she is taking him away from me. Makes me tear up when I think of it that way. She was nice to me, he was nice to me, and I've made it all weird. I feel it's wrong of him to cross that line with me Sunday but I also know I manipulated him into doing so. So as a result, I'm pushing him further away. I've created a situation where I don't feel like I can be around them as a couple...not right now anyway, and that limits what I can do. I feel that I'm screwing myself out of the opportunity to be around certain people because of my childishness. I want to grow up and be OK with this. Also, when I think of his relationship with her possibly not working out, I'm torn between feeling elated by that thought because I do love him deeply and want a relationship with him and feeling like I'd be disappointed again...like I felt before when he and I weren't connecting intellectually on certain values or concepts that were important to me. He is no perfect saint, but no one is. But for now this guy is unavailable. That should be my primary assessment of him. Unavailable. The present reality is that he's unavailable. My confusion comes up because he's helpful to me and ridiculously caring and affectionate. After Sunday though, he is not going there again. He sees it as a mistake, and that stings too. I don't know if a friendship is appropriate or right for me because I would rather a man reserve that kind of a attention for a girlfriend. All these other thoughts are illusions...either past stuff or future worries, fantasies, etc. I'm just having a very hard time quieting down these thoughts and staying in the present. And even when I do, the present is not particularly pleasant right now. I have to learn to ride out these hard times without thinking I have to seek relief from another person. I look to him that way. As a savior and as a relief. To have that taken away, by way of him having plans with his gf and not comforting me when I want it...is giving me so much pain. Jeez, I know it's a childhood wound. I thought I addressed all this before but I'm doing it again and it's even more intense this time...probably because the wound keeps getting picked because I don't want to let him go and he doesn't want to go. He tells me regularly that he loves me and will always be there for me. It's what I want to hear...but it's shredding me.
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Post by paisley on Feb 22, 2018 18:10:31 GMT -8
This is what I really need to focus on. POA has put other women between us all along. It is why I split with him. When he had a girlfriend in the past, he was always more focused on me. I thought that meant he loved me and I'm "the one". When we were together, he was reaching out to his ex. Not horrible on the surface, but it just turned into this ugly thing...in part due to my issues, in part due to his lack of judgement, in my opinion and failure to connect with me on why it was so hurtful. I just saw it as completely unnecessary. He apologized and says he gets it, but here I am on the other side of the equation. He's with someone new and still wanted to have this connection with me, which again, is not horrible on the surface (and I met her and she was very sweet to me), but regardless, I started flipping out over it and have been bombarding him with demands for attention and he's accommodating me quite a bit. I would be so angry if I was his girlfriend and knew the nature of our conversations this month. What happened Sunday is definitely a deal breaker, in my book (if I was his gf and found out he did what he did with another gal). He says she knows how he felt about me before...she does not know about the present situation. He tells me he loves me, we are more than friends, he will always be there for me, etc. Makes me wonder if this is OK in other relationships, for one partner to have that strong of a connection with an opposite sex friend he used to sleep with. Lord knows I can't handle it in my relationships. So why, looking at his history, do I think he's a good match for me? Because I have this belief that I am different and special and if he could just see it, we'd have our blissful life together. I also feel like I didn't commit "enough" in the past to hold his interest. Like I could have given more and he'd be happy with me. Kind of feeling like I can control him and the situation in this way. Just up the ante and keep him happy. It's what he wants, to settle down, have a lover or wife to come home to...all that domestic stuff. So it's not like he's incapable of being emotionally available, he can. It was me who retreated and rejected him initially. He's also being somewhat emotionally available NOW...which is how it got out of hand. I want the hugs and kisses and to be held as I go through my hard times. He actually WANTS TO be there for me. Just not completely, because he's with this gal. The fact that he wants to settle down is enticing to me now, and I'm too late, but if she dumps him (could take weeks, months, years or never happen) he is likely to be looking my way again and that concerns me. I see a future with him turning out one of two ways: 1) absolute joy in finally having what we both want. We like to do the same things. He's already fully integrated into my life, my family, my friends. He's a fixture. He's already there and still somewhat there (till he gets more serious with this gal, I suppose). It just seems like a no-brainer to me and I'm so frustrated that he's being so dense about it! We'd have our house and we'd be cooking dinner together and cuddling on the couch, getting/giving back massages and having tons of sex. 2) Me getting jealous about his associations with other women because I've seen his handiwork. I saw how he tried to tell himself that if it wasn't sex it wasn't cheating. It was cheating by my book. That shows different values. Me trying to control his friendships with other women. Me encouraging him to cut people out of his life to make me feel more secure. Him complying with my wishes and then feeling resentful about it. Him constantly apologizing, saying he gets it...but he doesn't get it. I wonder which scenario is delusion.
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Post by paisley on Feb 22, 2018 18:21:40 GMT -8
Also, I have stated that I do not approve of his relationship with this new gal. I'm strongly opposed to it. I've analyzed it and made my strong opinions of the situation known to him. I say it's not going to last. She's not right for him. I've denied that they even have a relationship because it's too new. I've demanded that he get rid of her.
And he still contacts me and wants to help me.
I actually prefer guys who are more loyal. If I was in her boat and knew the extent of my "fits" towards him regarding her...I'd be so deeply hurt and disappointed that he didn't shut it down. Seems like I'm setting a really bad precedent, in the event that he does come looking for a relationship with me in the future. How can I expect he'd be loyal to me and defend me from this sort of outside attack from another woman?
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 22, 2018 19:00:15 GMT -8
Please remember that Triangles are not just manifested as no contact. It sounds like the Triangle is still in your head and consuming your time and attention. Are you taking care of yourself and your family? What do you think it will take to break the spell? kingsleydennis.com/breaking-the-spell/
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Post by paisley on Feb 23, 2018 4:11:05 GMT -8
I am not taking care of myself. My home is a mess...I am barely eating and not drinking enough water. Can't remember the last time I worked out. I come home and just want to sleep.
I don't know how I can break the spell. Maybe focusing on another man. But that's always a dead end too and I'm losing my desire to do anything or be hopeful about anything. I have several things on my calendar, including an outing with friends tomorrow...it just all seems empty and bland right now. A big part of this is the weather. I'm hoping when it clears up I'll be back outside and active and my mood will lift. Other people in my city are expressing the same sadness because we haven't seen much sun this whole month. So many of us are depressed right now.
I have been dealing with the family member who needs my help and was in the hospital. No one else in my family is around though. It's just me. I have no help to deal with this person and it's overwhelming. Actually, there is assistance (professionals) but what I want is comfort and affection. My friends are caring, don't get me wrong, but I don't want platonic love right now. I want something more. And I can't "make" anyone love me that way. I took it for granted that this guy would always be there for me in that regard, despite me pushing him away. I was wrong. I know I'm being so immature about it and not handling it well.
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Post by paisley on Feb 24, 2018 4:35:19 GMT -8
I listened to a video yesterday about getting over a breakup. That's kind of what I'm seeing this as...although we broke up months ago, we are just now separating more and that's what has me so down. Imagine breaking up with a guy, but he's still always around. Now that he is seeing this gal, he's more absent. So the video said to look at this feeling like it's a monster in a cage trying to get out. Eventually the monster exhausts itself and calms down. That's how it feels...my monster is getting exhausted. I'm actually thankful that I've allowed myself to feel this pain. It is painful, and it's normal. I made some bad choices during this process and I acted out. I pushed POA away further...he's much more guarded now. Perhaps that's a good thing. Like I clumsily placed a much needed boundary between us by clawing at him and making those unreasonable demands upon him and taking him to the edge of what he considers cheating. I know it's not who he wants to be and it spooked him.
It was a difficult week with my relative in the hospital. This relative is still doing poorly and I fended for myself last night while he left to be with his girlfriend. No tears from me...I was doing what I needed to do. I know they have an outing tonight with a couple that he and I know. She will be their new friend now. I'm not too torn up about it. I feel like I'm starting to accept the situation. I just want to "go with it" and stop fighting it. My monster is exhausted. Also thinking of flying down the relative's old caretaker from their home town if it comes to that and I need round the clock assistance. POA certainly wants to be that person, but I think it's time to realize that he cannot be...if he wants to start something up with this gal. That may be where most of my pain resides...I'm angry that he keeps saying he's going to "be there" for me during this process and he's not. Just another reason to let go of the idea that he's right for me. He tells me what I want to hear...and he can't follow through on these promises. I hate that. I realize that's what he was doing to an ex girlfriend when he and I were together too. He was feeling responsible for her emotional wellbeing long after they split. It's why we broke up. Now I'm her and this new gal is me. That doesn't give any indication that he's changed or can be the guy I want him to be. So essentially, he's just not that guy.
I have been talking to a co-worker about it (probably not the best idea) and she gave me a big hug and was weepy too. She said it's no wonder I'm so upset dealing with the relative AND the emotions with my ex-bf falling in love with someone else just when things are getting more difficult. Add in the illnesses that I've had and the gloomy weather and I'm really just being a human being by losing it a little (OK, losing it a lot). So right now I'm trying to cut myself some slack and accept that I'm just a human being trying to cope with some hard stuff. My friends have been calling wanting to get together this weekend so my plate is full. I'm getting out today, rain or shine and I'm actually feeling a bit excited about living life and exploring possibilities again. I hope this lasts!!! I've been so up and down lately so I'm hesitant to think that my depression is gone...but yeah that monster in the cage seems to be worn out.
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Post by paisley on Feb 24, 2018 4:56:46 GMT -8
Also noticing that I used to be a torchbearer and now I don't seem to be one. Maybe that can give someone hope. I held on to the feelings for the boyfriend that I had when I was 16 until I was in my 40s. If I wasn't hoping for him specifically, I was hoping for his image in someone else. And no one could live up to that fantasy. I transferred that feeling onto another POA who I craved and dreamed about for years...until his death. Then I went though this recovery and realized what I was doing and was somehow able to turn this off. I was then able to exist without being in love with anyone specifically and not fantasize about a past POA. I can't say it was always pleasant, because I would like to fall in love and I get lonely in that way...but I think it made me more available to love when I let go of that idea that POA#1 (or his image) was the only guy for me. Then out of the blue POA#1 contacted me a couple years ago on FB. No relapse, no hopes...I actually got to see him as he turned out and knew we were not compatible. I was genuinely happy for him finding a lovely wife and having a happy life. He was dying of cancer and passed away a few months later. We cannot hold on to anything. It's not ours to have. It's all temporary. So I'm glad this latest boyfriend was not a matter of passing a torch. I know I will be OK with no prospects (but hey, if you know any single guys my age who you think I might want to date... ) I was careful with my last boyfriend...I was hesitant...I didn't get intimate with him until I'd known him a full year. I loved him, and now it's time to move on. I couldn't hold onto him forever even if it was what we both wanted. There is no sense wasting my existence beating myself up over what I think should have happened. Through meditation I notice the majority of my thoughts are me beating myself up. Take it from someone whose two main POAs for whom I carried torches for decades are both now deceased. Even if I "got" them...I still wouldn't have them. Why carry around these illusions?
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Post by paisley on Feb 24, 2018 20:22:01 GMT -8
Had a good day. Talked quite a bit to a sweet guy I've known a couple of years while out with some friends at lunch. Said he has also been very gloomy with the weather and has been sick too. He has been nice and reached out before, but he always ends up dating gals from apps so I don't give him much thought. He is likely just looking for a gang to hang out with and we share a few friends. Today he was interested in trips I want to take and things I want to do around town when the weather clears. I told him about a day I'm taking off work to have fun during a big city-wide event next month. He asked if he can join me. Some other friends may join too...I just thought it was sweet of him to want to connect...even though we are just friends. He told my other friends we will be seeing more of him. Now that I think back, he was reaching out to me a year ago when this whole trauma with the relative came to a head. He was offering help. I instead ended up enlisting the help of the POA.
The POA and his new girlfriend were brought up a few times by my friends today. They don't know my struggles this month so assume I'm cool with everything. It was tempting to blab about my tragic situation but I decided against it. I see it as more acting out...plus it puts our mutual friends in an awkward position for me to do that. (they are primarily my friends, but the POA sparked a friendship with nearly all my friends over the past two years). I MUST LET THIS GO even if I'm white-knuckling it right now.
I'm not sure if it's good that I seem to require outside influences to lift my mood...but I also know isolation isn't good for me and finding my groove with my social group again is in order. Looking forward to some changes. No expectations and I don't feel like I need any sort of romance to spring up really. Hanging out with these nice folks will do. It's just weird how I can go from feeling it's the end of the word and I will never, ever find love to feeling like I'm OK. I have a strong support system. I need to let more people in besides the POA and stop looking at the POA as the only one who can offer me comfort.
The sun poked out for a few minutes too. No rain and it's warmer.
Then I remember I also invited the POA to join me on this day off...but now I don't want him there! I seriously doubt he plans on joining me anyway. I have been thinking of him off and on and having moments of sadness, but it seems to be more rational thought now, with me thinking of why I don't want to be with him or at least thinking I can let it go and if he comes back around maybe I can decide then if it's something I want to pursue at that time...I don't have to figure out everything now, I am free to let it go. It is interesting to note that I invited the POA to join me for the city-wide event...then a mere days later this other guy shows interest in joining. A good example of how I allow this POA to sabotage my chances with other men. Perfect example of how focusing on the unavailable makes me unavailable. I seriously doubt he'll be joining me though. It was him telling me what I wanted to hear and refusing to place a boundary...but the more passive "I forgot" method will probably be used.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 24, 2018 20:58:28 GMT -8
Me too! I finally got my tax refund and paid some bills. After 69 years that what it comes down to. A good meal and all your bills paid once a year in February. LOL
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