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Post by BunnyEars on Feb 22, 2020 8:44:51 GMT -8
I dated 2 people recently, I'm trying to work through what I'm thinking and feeling about it.
Last weekend, I took the bus four hours to meet a woman I've been messaging/videochatting with for about a month. I've done a few of these semi-long-distance first dates now. Inevitably, you end up spending A LOT of time with that person, way more than you would with someone local. When one person has to travel three to five hours to get to the other, they rarely want to turn around and drive right back. Plus, you want to take enough time to figure out if this person is worth pursuing, given the distance. It makes dating rather intense right off the bat. In my experience, these long-distance first-meets inevitably become little mini vacations for one person, the other person ends up playing host. It's a very different dynamic from two people in the same city popping out for a glass of wine. I remember the first time I let someone drive down to meet me, soon after I'd separated from hubby, I was feeling desperate for a date, we didn't even videochat first. Dumb. What showed up was nothing like on the profile. I tried to make the best of it, but I could not wait for that guy to get out of my town. He drove like 7 hours and spent money on a hotel room for nothing. I've smartened up since then.
I'd messaged and videochatted enough to know this woman was nice, interesting, and we could hold a conversation. I already suspected I might not be physically attracted, but figured I'd give it a chance, sometimes one can get attracted to people who aren't one's "type" physically. I guessed we'd enjoy each other's company even if we weren't romantically combustible, and with valentine's day depression looming, what the heck. I took a couple shifts off from work, reserved a room, and went.
We had lunch, then sat around my hotel talking. We went deep with our conversation. She is a lovely person, but seems young for her age (8 years younger than me) not grounded. Frankly, she doesn't seem to have the ability or resources to date anyone seriously right now. She's living with her sister's family and starting a new career from the bottom. As far as I could see, she has at least a year before getting her own place and getting off the night shift.
Recently, one of my besties pointed out that I surround myself with "alpha women," and I've been thinking about that a lot. I do tend to have friends and girlfriends with BIG personalities. I don't consider myself an alpha female, but on the other hand, my own personality holds its own against theirs. Anyway, this woman was not like that, she prefers to deflect attention. She mentioned her mom had narcissistic tendencies. Also, she still seems to be in pain from the end of a long-term relationship 6 years ago.
Then we went to dinner, then a lesbian karaoke meetup and mingled. By then it was late, she'd had drinks and my hotel was close to the bar, so she stayed over. Nothing happened. I made no overtures, nor did she. The next morning, we went to brunch and walked around a bit, then it was time for me to go. It was a LONG, exhausting, and expensive date, but I can rest assured she isn't a match, and I had fun and made a new friend, so no regrets.
I'm thinking from here on, if I even SUSPECT I might not spark with someone, and they live in another city, I'm not going to bother meeting up with them. I'm all for widening my dating pool, but it's just too much time, energy, money, etc., and so often I'm finding I can tell if we'll have chemistry even before we meet.
Now, the other dating situation involves-- a MAN!
I've been hesitant to date men as I seem to form deeper attachments to women, but something keeps me open to them. This is a local guy, we met on Facebook. We don't have any good friends in common, just acquaintances. We decided to meet on Valentine's day---a bit loaded, I know, but that was honestly the first night we weren't both busy.
We totally vibed, made real conversation. Drinks turned into dinner. He's tall, snazzy dresser, big smile, laughs easily, seems at once empathetic and masculine. Totally my type, down to being "heteroflexible" and interested in ethical non-monogamy. At one point in my life I very much identified as polyamorous, but lately I've felt more monogam-ish, so we'll see how that plays out if we made it as far as relationship negotiations. I let him know that even if he's dating others, I need a LOT of attention, lol. It's funny, he wears the male version of the scent I wear. He is 5 years younger than me, has an established career, owns a house. Doesn't drink, healthy eater, loves the outdoors. He has two ex wives (!) and two kids, early teens (!!) I'm not sure yet how often they stay with him, (reminder to self I need to ask.) That's twice as many failed marriages as me, and I've never seriously dated anyone with children. So maybe these are red flags? Maybe not?
He's confident but not arrogant, he put everything out there with honesty even if it's not pretty, and I love how strongly he steps up for me. He told me at the end of our first date how much he hoped to see me again, told me what he liked about me (and it was about ME, not my looks) and so far he has been consistent and excited about getting to know me without making me feel pressured or like I'm being lovebombed. It feels so nice to have someone move towards me at a pace I'm comfortable with, given so many experiences recently where that wasn't the case. We went to dinner again a couple nights ago, and we are seeing each tonight, dinner and a show. He just texted me to let me know how much he's looking forward to it and ask if I wanted him to pick me up.
Still, I find myself ruminating about the exgf who dumped me. I'm stuck on imagining the way I felt in her arms back before she shut down on me. I'm worried I cannot feel that for a man, so I'll end up leaving him, the way I left my ex husband. I've been rereading HE'S SCARED, SHE'S SCARED, it's helpful on making me call myself out on some of my b.s..
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Post by BunnyEars on Feb 22, 2020 20:21:39 GMT -8
And tonight, 3rd date, I just completely lost interest in the guy. Can't see myself with him, don't want him to touch me. I don't know what I'm going to say to him.
Lately, if I'm being honest, I don't feel much for anyone else. Not family who I only see once every few years anyway. My friends, I generally enjoy their company and feel a benevolence, but I don't seek much closeness from them.
My attraction doesn't flow out to anyone. Any lust I feel just turns in on itself, there's no where for it to go, and it perishes. I don't know if it's antidepressants or just life, but mostly I feel pretty numbed out. Not in pain, at least, but certainly not happy.
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Post by Sexlessw on Feb 28, 2020 4:56:56 GMT -8
BunnyEars:
Are you on anti-depressants/SSRIs long term? I remember the one time I was prescribed them my feelings were blunted. Not that I couldn't feel something, but that when I did, I couldn't fully engage with the emotion. For instance, I was watching a very funny episode of a television show. I laughed, but I felt that I was laughing through molasses. The feeling of "Oh gosh, is that hilarious and I am really laughing hard" was NOT there.
IMO when I was prescribed them, it was NOT depression I was having, but withdrawal. After the day I couldn't laugh, I stopped taking them.
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Post by Loveanimals on Feb 28, 2020 8:19:50 GMT -8
Hi BunnyEars,
Why do you think your feelings would change so dramatically? Perhaps it's that you still have feelings for your ex?
Yeah that is a tough challenge if things were going well with this new man?
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 28, 2020 8:57:01 GMT -8
BunnyEars: Are you on anti-depressants/SSRIs long term? I remember the one time I was prescribed them my feelings were blunted. Not that I couldn't feel something, but that when I did, I couldn't fully engage with the emotion. For instance, I was watching a very funny episode of a television show. I laughed, but I felt that I was laughing through molasses. The feeling of "Oh gosh, is that hilarious and I am really laughing hard" was NOT there. IMO when I was prescribed them, it was NOT depression I was having, but withdrawal. After the day I couldn't laugh, I stopped taking them. I was really in bad shape when they put me in meds. I did not care about the side effects. I just needed to blunt the anxiety that was destroying me. I take a low dose to counteract the side effects. I would be insane right now without meds. I just wish my parents had the choice between meds and suicide and alcoholism etc.
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Post by BunnyEars on Feb 29, 2020 9:22:46 GMT -8
Thanks guys,
I've been taking wellbutrin, not an ssri, as I know from experience ssri's give me unwelcome side effects. I started weaning off a couple of days ago, we'll see what that feels like. I mostly just meant to use them to get through the holiday season anyway.
The other possibility, if it isn't the meds, and/or perimenopause (totally possible at my age)-- I think maybe something inside me just shut down after my last encounter with an EU woman. I think I mentioned here how I emotionally went fetal, and I don't know that I've come back fully into my body since then. I may actually have disassociated some.
Maybe I've "given up" on love. Having to hide my excessive pain when rejected, having to bury my intense yearning for a great girlfriend who never manifests, because I don't want to APPEAR desperate or needy or broken (even if I am,) I have to create an empty, false shell to walk around in.
I decided to continue dating the nice man, nothing to lose. He is not at all pushy, which helps. Last night I was able to stay open enough to him to 1) argue with him passionately over politics (he voted 3rd party in 2016!) and 2) have sex with him, stay in my body, and enjoy myself thoroughly. But, boy, was I ready for him to leave in the morning. I'm not used to men anymore, they take up a LOT of space.
In other news, I sent my STBX husband's divorce summons to the wrong county, so have to try again. I acquired a new critter, an 80 pound tortoise who I'm obsessed with, lol, time for me to move on to the pet addicts boards.
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RoseNadler
Administrator
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Posts: 1,111
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Post by RoseNadler on Feb 29, 2020 9:35:20 GMT -8
I don’t have any words of wisdom - but just want to tell you, I can relate to the feeling of having to hide my real feelings (heartbreak, needs, longings), and have to pretend everything is OK. I’ve been there, and it’s devastating.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Feb 29, 2020 18:06:29 GMT -8
Take your time. Let him grow on you. As times goes by and you trust him you will need less and less space less and less often. But you also need your space. It is the same as a healthy boundary. If he is healthy he will understand and if he needs more then he can move on.
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Post by BunnyEars on Mar 1, 2020 9:36:02 GMT -8
Hi BunnyEars, Why do you think your feelings would change so dramatically? Perhaps it's that you still have feelings for your ex? I think yes, I probably am still affected by that. Though it was only an 8 1/2 relationship, we were together all the time, and I was happy with her most of the time. I have never kissed anyone as much as I kissed her. I have never wanted less "space" from anyone. We rarely spent time apart, and I loved it. I'm not sure how to trust anyone again. Her dropping me out of the blue when just two nights earlier, we made the most passionate love and she held me close all night created major cognitive dissonance that almost 9 months later I still struggle with. @susannah "Take your time. Let him grow on you. As times goes by and you trust him you will need less and less space less and less often." Very good advice.
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Post by Sexlessw on Mar 2, 2020 4:45:43 GMT -8
BunnyEars:
Let me know what it's like being weaned off the Wellbutrin.
Now it could be peri-menopause too. Now that I am menopausal, many of the intense feelings of emotional need have lessened. Of course, that is also because I have had a tumultuous year on the employment front which cased me to utterly and totally disengage from MANY people- my entire work life was ended. Yet, I think menopause has helped to end much of the anxiety/stress I felt when I was chasing/obsessing over PoAs.
Regarding how together you were with xGF - perhaps all of that togetherness was too much for her. The "engulfment" of being with somebody can become overwhelming for some people. What you found comfortable and loving, may have been too much for her (source, Pia Mellody, myself) and caused her to get out of the relationship. What was "out of the blue" for you, was not to her. In the back of her mind, she was planning/thinking of her "escape". (source, personal experience and personal actions).
Then I read about the nice dude - aside confession - I voted independent in 1992. I nodded at this: "have sex with him, stay in my body, and enjoy myself thoroughly. But, boy, was I ready for him to leave in the morning. I'm not used to men anymore, they take up a LOT of space." Don't some dudes take up a LOT of space. I hear you on that.
Wait! The STBX wasn't living in the county you thought he was? Can you get a process server to deliver it to his proper county and address? Hopefully he just signs off on the entire thing. What a pain!
Hey, tell me about this EIGHTY POUND (!!!!) tortoise. Is he/she a Russian tortoise? How'd you get him/her? I'm jealous! I've always waned a tortoise. One thing I do know is they like to roam, so hopefully during the summer months you can let him/her wander around your property. Just make sure he/she doesn't wander into the road! Last thing: at least they are vegetarians - your guinea pig is safe.
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Post by BunnyEars on Mar 2, 2020 6:11:37 GMT -8
Sexlessw, I'm sure you're right about exgf feeling engulfed. I've been rereading HE'S SCARED, SHE'S SCARED and she's a classic active avoider (which would make me a passive avoider.) It was extra confusing because SHE initiated so much of our togetherness, she made it clear early on she didn't like to be apart from me, and she stated a main reason for dumping me as I wasn't at her side at all of her work events. Up until the very end, I honestly had no idea she wasn't completely crazy about me. Whatever was going on inside her, she hid it well. Then we had that one stressful week, during which she met someone else (I remember her telling me she had "talked to some girl, but didn't do anything to disrespect me.") Nope, I'm still not entirely over it.
The tortoise is a 10 year old Sulcata, a friend of a friend needed to rehome him due to moving to a smaller place with no outdoor access. He's now living in my fenced in yard chowing on grass and dandelions. He's a tank! He never goes around anything, he just plows right through, knocking over/dragging chairs, stomping over landscaping lol. I'm looking into a tracking device I can stick on him in case he escapes. I guess I better also look into a wheelbarrow to carry him home if that happens. I'm definitely a bit worried about someone deciding to steal him, I've read about that happening to other tortoise owners, and my yard is very easily accessible.
I'm enjoying the nice guy, but have many doubts about a long term, monogamous relationship with him for a few reasons. First of all, he's a man. I leave men for women. It's what I do. Also, I hate to sound snooty but he's not very worldly, never left the country, and I'm about to introduce him to the joys of foreign films for the first time. He's quite comfortable in his American white male straight privilege bubble, and doesn't seem to give much thought to the struggles of the less fortunate. Plus, there's the 2 ex wives and 2 kids....But for now, I'm just happy to have an attentive, kind, passionate dating partner, and neither of us is asking for more.
The dose of wellbutrin I take is so low as to be negligible anyway, half the recommended starting dose. I'm very sensitive to drugs, and often feel effects on very low doses. On higher doses of wellbutrin my hands started shaking, so I just take a little.
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Post by Sexlessw on Mar 4, 2020 5:00:24 GMT -8
BunnyEars:
How come I see myself in your xGF??? "classic active avoider". When you wrote about her being close with you and living with you and then...leaving you, it was familiar to me.
It takes a terribly long time to GET THROUGH these actions on the part of the receiver of them. My feeling, b/c I've never met your xGF, is that she is always looking to jump from one relationship to another. You weren't "at her side at all of her work events"? Well, that excludes you from the relationship. Surely the NEXT person she searches and finds will be with her all the time, work and home. And then she'll feel engulfed when the person is with her ALL OF THE TIME, and push the person away, so she can search for yet another person...leaving much pain in her rear view mirror.
It took me nearly TEN YEARS to get through my first EMA with Dillweed. Honestly, you do NOT WANT to be me living in fog for ten years. Oh heck no.
Oh wow - Tortoise Sulcata sounds like the kind of dude/chick we need around here in the summer time. If he eats all that grass for you, you will not need a lawn mower or a landscaper. It's just when the floors get chewed down. You were very kind in taking him in. His prior owners must be thrilled he found a great home. I agree with you about some sort of tracking device. There have been instances of giant tortoises traveling TWO MILES (think the size of a bath tub) from their homes. Will he always be the same size or is he going to grow? Yes to the wheelbarrow. I will NOT be stealing him from your yard - poor dude would have to deal with my birds in the morning.
Oh boy - the dude has NEVER SEEN A FOREIGN FILM?? Are you talking with SUBTITLES? Never left the USA? No passport (in this case, passport required). AND - wait - TWO xWs and 2 children? Does he know you leave men for women? Or is that not something you have chosen to discuss with him at this point? Is he looking for a new mom/wife? Keep him as a dating partner if that is what is working right now. I don't see LTR in the future, tho. Enjoy the time while it lasts. Maybe you'll make a foreign film devotee out of him. He'll see the great French/German/Korean/Italian landscape on screen and say, "Let's go to Europe while there aren't that many tourists!"
I don't blame you for keeping the Wellbutrin dose very, very low. Nobody needs their hands shaking. That low dose, tho, do you feel any change when you take it?
Sorry for not responding yesterday, BunnyEars. I was in my own SexlessW world!
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Post by BunnyEars on Mar 4, 2020 12:58:00 GMT -8
BunnyEars: How come I see myself in your xGF??? "classic active avoider". When you wrote about her being close with you and living with you and then...leaving you, it was familiar to me. Huh, interesting. I'm also on a forum all about various attachment styles, and it's been interesting to see how avoiders think/act so differently from people like me who are "fearfully attached," and how both sides of the coin inevitably get involved with each other. Strangely, exgf was NOT in a relationship for 5 years before me, but got into one immediately (possibly with some overlap) afterwards. I'm making the new guy watch Parasite with me tonight, so yeah, he's gonna get used to subtitles. The fact that he's not intellectual or a traveler thing bothers me, but I'm trying to stay open minded. He's probably smart and worldly in ways I'm not. Also, and this sounds awful, he has such a sunny disposition (so far, anyway.) I'm a grumpy old pessimist! I often cannot relate to happy shiny people. I end up taking on the dark side for both of us. But it's so nice to have someone enthusiastic about spending time with me, he's really good at making me feel wanted and cared for, definitely a gentleman. I have NOT told him that I leave men for women, though I have told him I fall harder/faster for women. I hope I'm not being dishonest by wanting to wait and see where this goes. I guess I'm still trying to figure out if I could be happy with a man. I mean, my longest, healthiest relationship was to a man. I'd be scared to commit to dating women only, especially knowing how small and sickly it would make my dating pool.
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Post by Sexlessw on Mar 5, 2020 5:04:35 GMT -8
BunnyEars: It's the old chart Pia Mellody had in her book. It was the Avoidant/Addict chart. The push/pull between Avoidant and Addict. It wasn't until I read her book (and did my relationship chart) that I realized MY actions were THAT of an Avoidant. But sometimes, an Avoidant can be an Addict too. That happened twice in my life - in high school and my xPoA on my former job. Maybe you kicked something off with the xGF which is why she pursued you. However, we can psychoanalyze somebody else all we want - it's a nice diversion. The person we need to examine is ourselves. I'm not writing anything different here. As a matter of fact, I'm repeating it and repeating it. Blah. Oh my - "Parasite"? He's going to be in for a true culture shock. Does he know anything about Korean culture or the reasons behind "Parasite"? Hopefully he'll get the cultural and economic commentary behind it. Maybe he'd enjoy "Old Boy" or "The Hand Maid" more (if you saw "The Hand Maid" - final scene with the two gals - even made this het girls heart race) ho ho ho. Go with it. If he's a sunny dude, treats you well and you are enjoying him, there is nothing wrong with that. Although he has no passport and isn't into traveling, who knows what other experiences he can share with you. Perhaps he's afraid to step out of his locality. Perhaps he' can't afford it. Or he's just fine where he is thankyouverymuch. He's not being belligerent, he's not torturing your guinea pig or tortoise, he is not demeaning you - he could be a decent person going through life like we all are. Just don't become Wife #3! (you have to file the final divorce decree in the correct county for husband #1 - I'm ducking and covering and running...) No. You are not being dishonest about telling him "let's wait and see where this goes". If he was rushing you into being Wife #3 (see last sentence above) that would be a huge red flag and then you could say, "Sorry Sunny Dude, but I usually leave men for OWs so this isn't working." Stay the course. Give and take and do not expect which cannot be given. I understand your fear about dating women only. IMO you have pretty much run the gambit with the available ladies in your sector/area. Give your new tortoise some great greens and tell him/her SexlessW is happy he/she has found a great home. Same thing with your guinea pig.
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Post by BunnyEars on Mar 6, 2020 5:22:21 GMT -8
Perhaps very telling is that when I'm in a hetero relationship, I cannot watch female-female love scenes because the ENVY nearly kills me, and I resent being "stuck with" some guy. Ditto for seeing happy, attractive female couples IRL. A dear friend of mine is coming into town tonight with her new, serious girlfriend, and I'm preparing myself for some serious pangs of envy, seeing a lesbian couple on a nice vacation together. I don't want to feel that way, my friend was alone for a loooong time and she's awesome and deserves happiness, but there it is.
The new guy did great with foreign films, he seems very interested in trying new "cultural" things.
You'd like this, Sexlessw. When he came over, he said "I'm not the sort of guy who gives flowers and chocolates, but I wanted to bring you something." Then he whipped out a cucumber, my guinea pig's favorite! He totally scored points with that one.
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Post by Sexlessw on Mar 6, 2020 5:37:20 GMT -8
Okay, Okay! New dude gets a 95% rating from SexlessW for the cucumber for guinea pig. I like that. Come to think of it, the cucumber could have been shared with the tortoise too. Win for both of your critters. And no calories from chocolate or pesticides from the flowers. Good for him for being open after the film. Did he and you enjoy it? I'll have to see it at some point. What's the next film you plan on introducing him to? I don't keep up on foreign films like I once did, alas. Maybe some classics like "Woman on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown" and "La Femme Nikita" (I don't recommend "Fanny and Alexander" or "Das Boot" - ho ho ho). Well, no then. I don't recommend you and he watching "The Hand Maid" with him. Do you know the scene I'm talking about? Anyways...it was based on a book by Sarah Walters (sp). British TV made an earlier adaptation of the book - it was either "Fingersmith" or "Tipping the Velvet". Yes. I saw both. And you probably know that! Although it may be difficult for you to have your pal and new GF, remember that your pal had a hard time too. Have a nice time with your pal and her new GF. I am sure the new GF is going to be great company and that you WILL show them a wonderful time. Get your karaoke songs lined up! I intend to hear you where I am in NYS.
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Post by BunnyEars on Mar 6, 2020 5:58:32 GMT -8
I didn't know you were in NY Sexlessw (or maybe I did and forgot.) I lived in downtown Manhattan for 12 yrs before ditching it for the tropical island life.
Envy is a tough one. I know others struggle with it too (RoseNadler thank you for being so frank about this in your journal.) Man, it just eats me alive. I can only deal with watching lesbian stuff when I'm actually in a same-sex relationship. I do not feel this way about hetero relationships, perhaps because they seem easier to obtain for me.
Well, I should probably let him pick the movie next time, so I have a feeling I'm in for something involving marvel/dc comics (eyeroll.)
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Post by Sexlessw on Mar 8, 2020 10:39:13 GMT -8
BunnyEars:
I am located 75 miles NW of Manhattan. What the local weather always says as "North and West of the City". I'm located in the county where NYPD and NYFD folks can live furthest away from the City. It's just close enough and just far enough from Manhattan which is a good fit for my life. We moved down here from WNY for my former job.
Is your paradise island East Coast or West Coast?
I understand your aversion to watching same-gender sexual stuff if you're NOT in a same sex relationship.
Hey, speaking as somebody who is NOT into the MCEU or the DCEU, it's not too horrible. Trite scripts, top acting talent (Tom Hiddleson I'm speaking to YOU, Nicole Kidman too AND Julie Andrews!!!), and over-indulgent special effects, yes - it's overblown. However, if he chooses some MCEU/DCEU stuff - roll with it and think. Maybe he'll pick the one with Maisie Williams ("Arya" GOT) that'll be released soon. Sit back, watch, think "Dang. This script is so predictable! But wow - what kewl F/X and CGGI!!! SMH!!!"
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