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Post by Rilly on Jan 31, 2009 9:57:53 GMT -8
As you know, during my marriage I had a succession of POA's on the side. The last two were more serious affairs. It feels good to know my marriage is on solid ground now, and my wife knows everything about my past. There is a peace that comes from not having to worry anymore about being caught.
Recently I asked my wife what she would want to tell any of the women on this site that are married and have just ended a relationship with their POA. I asked her what she thought you should tell your husbands. She knows what it feels like to have a spouse looking at someone else. This is what she said to me:
She doesn't really have anything anyway if honesty can't be between them. She is robbing her husband of the intimacy. There is nothing that the POA can do to her if her husband hears the truth first from her. She shouldn't leave him in a position where someone can blindside him. One of the things that hurt me the most was when other people started coming to me and telling me stuff. That hurt the most. When you came to me, that showed trust. But you did it with love and commitment.
When I made you tell me, you were afraid of what I was going to do. She just needs to tell him that she WANTS to be with him. She needs to tell him that she is afraid because she doesn't want him to leave her. But she also needs to let him know that if he chooses to do that... she understands. But it is NOT what she wants.
Because, Rilly, the first time you did this to me, I was absolutely sure you would leave me. But what I didn't know was that you were dealing with an addiction, and it wasn't about who I was. It wasn't about ME. It was about your addiction. Now I can see that. He may assume that because she had this affair, she doesn't love him, or that he isn't enough. But he needs to know it ISN'T about that. She MUST reinforce how she feels about him over and over. And be completely honest with him. Make him understand it isn't about him.
If she isn't honest, then she will be CAUSING her marriage to fail. It will be a self-fulfilled prophecy.
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Post by Havefaith on May 13, 2009 10:54:41 GMT -8
I'm starting to see the light. I understand this. Finally. By the Grace of God and a HUGE dose of humility....
And it feels right....
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Post by staystrong on Sept 7, 2009 15:03:42 GMT -8
This has been one of the most difficult three days of my life. I told my wife about my ten month affair that ended Friday. Since then it has been a roller coaster of emotions. As she asks me questions and I honestly answer...it gets harder and harder to look her in the eyes.
I really do not know if my marriage will come out the other end. However, I know that admitting was really the only way to give it the chance to be a healthy and honest marriage.
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Post by Susan Peabody on Dec 26, 2009 16:24:35 GMT -8
Remember the 9th step . . . Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.peeltheonion.tripod.com/id9.html |
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Post by mybestme on Dec 26, 2009 17:34:05 GMT -8
This is an interesting topic right now.
I'm in a position that I really didn't think revealing would be important or helpful.
I'm rethinking this - IF my husband's drinking truly subsides. It has to a degree but has been replaced by more frequent pot use.
I don't know what its like to have a stone sober husband (not on anything for more than two days straight). I'm not sure how wrong this really is as he is pleasant to be around when he's stoned. But, something in all of this feels wrong. Even though he's "mellow" he's still on something. But it's way better than when he's drunk.
I think I would and could only be honest with him when he has tackled his alcohol and drug issues. As, he is nasty beyond belief when he is drunk or when he runs out of pot. He will use it against me to the 10th degree if I ever needed or wanted a divorce.
This is why I need him sober and good for a long period of time before I can go there....if ever. If he can't deal with his addictions, I'm keeping my mouth shut - for my own protection.
I am so scared at times...with three kids...and one that's hyperactive. My extended family are needy and emotional. I'd really be on my own and I don't know if I could do it all. Though many times, I really do want to give it a try.
New Year...giving it time and will come to some decisions.
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Post by mybestme on Dec 26, 2009 17:38:34 GMT -8
Happy though to be getting further away from life with a POA. Any input about drug and alcohol addicted spouses would be really helpful...advice or success stories?
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Post by ok2bme on Dec 26, 2009 18:52:36 GMT -8
I've spent 4 years in Al-Anon, Nar-Anon & around AA about 20 years ago, trying to understand my husband's disease, it was a great helped...only regret was not working or knowing more about my own disease. They are great programs to become aquainted with if you are living with an drug/alcohol addicted spouse.
However, IF you were brought here because of suffering from love addiction, please make your recovery priority. It can be just as dangerous & take you down just as far, or further if not in recovery. I thought that for many years since my H stopped drinking for years it was all ok...well, he was not in real recovery until 3 months ago, so as he continued with his ways that left me alone I latched on to someone else that might fix me & fill my voids...& well..here I am.
Understanding is good. In hindsight, would have been nice to have been working on my insides way back too.
Success story...he stopped drinking, I continued to get sick, I found this site, things are looking better.
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Post by mybestme on Dec 26, 2009 19:19:03 GMT -8
Thanks for your input ok2beme...I really appreciate it.
At the risk of sounding whiney (which I hate), I am really struggling....Al Anon made me feel like I'd be stuck a victim my whole life.
When you want emotional intimacy with someone but can't because of alcoholism or you want freedom to be alone (but can't because you're married to an alcoholic), it can be really frustrating.
At the end of the day, all the work I do on myself so that I can avoid being that vulnerable person who clings to POAs still leaves me with a sick spouse that will only change when and if he is ever ready. It's maddening at times because it's awful for my kids. I'd rather be alone than with anyone at all and hate that trapped feeling.
Many posts I've read about people marrried to alcoholics (in other forums) mostly said they'd wish they had gotten out sooner...because things never changed and they waited too long and wasted too much time and watched their children suffer.
I'm so glad your spouse stopped drinking..it's wonderful and you are on the road to recovery...hopefully things will be great for you in years to come and it's inspiring.
As I get closer to my own recovery, I'm realizing that I can't avoid these issues with my spouse. They must be dealt with head on rather than me finding another escape. I'm gettting stronger...hoping I can tackle this issue too. I've posted alot about this...it helps to vent. Even when I know deep down what needs to be done and how and the work and committment involved...regardless of which direction things go.
Thanks for listening.
MBM
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Post by ok2bme on Dec 26, 2009 22:56:28 GMT -8
MBM,
Al-Anon did put me in a supportive role, although it was always my choice to leave. I just kept finding tools to stay rather than addressing my personal needs. We did share the love of our kids growing up, so I can't say I regret staying...but keep in mind he did not drink for 16-18 years & then started almost 2 years ago after the kids were adults & on their way.
Tending to your recovery may settle confusion as you go. Like I say with my PoA, if I'm committed to the recovery world & hang on to his world, they will either come together or they will pull me apart & if they pull me so hard I have to let one go...it will be my PoA.
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Post by ok2bme on Dec 26, 2009 22:58:21 GMT -8
oh...my PoA that I let go. I never want to be as down as I was prior to finding this place.
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Post by geedee on Dec 27, 2009 3:10:49 GMT -8
and that's what we must never forget ok2bme - how down we were before we found this recovery board.
I think you are really starting to see tthe direction you have to go in to save your sanity.
greta
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Post by frost on Dec 27, 2009 7:13:25 GMT -8
I think it's easy to have our focus misdirected either by our desires or by our addiction.
If our focus begins with the spouse and their problems and what is problematic about the marriage we can make an error in logic that leads to an argument that goes something like "Obviously since my wife (or husband) is a mess - I got into another relationship, and when I think of ending that relationship - I am left with my spouse and the bottom line is - they are a mess."
I think there is a pattern that we sometimes fail to see.
We look at the spouse and we see the drinking, drug use, gambling or philandering and think that is what is driving us to an EMA.
Most of the POAs that we as Love Addicts pursue are unavailable in some way and cause us pain.
When we were in the relationship that eventually became our marriage we were probably in a relationship with someone who was unavailable.
The part of us that longs for intimacy drives us to be in relationship with another, but because of our unhealthiness we gravitate toward the "impossible relationship" or connecting again with yet another person who is unavailable.
I think we get caught in an "either - or" trap of our own making. We think it's either our POA or it's our spouse.
I think it's better to look at the two things independently. We have one toxic painful relationship with our spouse - (we may not see how much pain it really generates if we are using our POA to medicate ), and we have another toxic painful relationship with our POA.
We need to deal with each toxic relationship in turn.
I do think dealing with both begins by getting healthier ourselves - when we are not healthy we are not in a position to deal with these relationship issues. In a sense - many of us as love addicts could not cope with life, we could not cope with our marriages and we used an addiction as our coping mechanism. When we are healthier, we can begin setting boundaries, we can begin sharing our own reality and are strong enough to deal with the psychological defenses (or attacks) the addict or narcissist throws at us - whether it be minimizing, trivializing, gas lighting, manipulation, emotional blackmail, threats - whatever.
Disclosing an affair may seem like a logical step in "working on the marriage" - but it may not be. If you are involved with an unrepentant addict who is not getting into recovery - the best next step may be laying down firm boundaries with consequences, and those consequences may be that you remove yourself from someone who persists in substance abuse.
Sober is not well - there is a difference between someone who has stopped drinking and someone who is really in recovery. Someone who simply stops drinking is a dry drunk - they have all of the horrible attributes, character defects and diseased attitudes of the alcoholic, the only difference is they are no longer getting drunk. Anyone who has lived with a dry drunk can attest that beneath the apparent problem of drinking - there are more problems.
There may come a time - if the spouse gets into true recovery - when the next step towards intimacy really is disclosure. But disclosing as an initial first step in trying to work on the marriage is like trying to put a roof on a house as the first step in building it.
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Post by primrose on Jan 21, 2010 1:38:19 GMT -8
I don't know the answer to this. My husband knows about my POA and for me, although it was a horrible experience him finding out, it has been a blessing long term. I had so much guilt, that every time my husband was loving toward me, part of me pulled back out of remorse. I held myself in check because he didn't know who I really was and if he did I was sure he wouldn't love me anymore. Keeping my POA a secret kept me in avoidance. But it's a process and a marriage changes, just getting into recovery for LA and working it helps so much. It may be that a dull marriage starts to have life in it again and at that point maybe it's a good time to disclose. It's up to the person working their programme to decide. I think at best people tell, if they do at all, at the right time for them. My husband "knew" anyway, even though I never as far as I was aware gave any sign at all.
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Post by Light on Jan 21, 2010 3:02:52 GMT -8
Your husband must love you very much, Primrose, so to understand your feelings and changes since you started your love addiction for your poa.
My husband "knew" too, just hearing my voice on the phone during the days I met my poa...
I do feel the love my husband has for me, this is a great thing to me, especially now that I'm in recovery.
I told my husband about poa at the time. Now after years he knows I've been in addiction for a long time but we don't talk about it very openly.
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Post by geedee on Jan 21, 2010 7:58:52 GMT -8
i read these posts earlier this morning from my phone.
i was sitting in the waiting room with my h waiting for his six monthly brain scan.
as many of you know i've decided not to tell my h about my EMA as i suspect my h could have a very violent reaction considering his depression and obsession that his life is coming to an end.and things he used to say to me about what he'd do to me if he ever found out i cheated on him.
i might just push him over the edge if i tell him the truth. two priests have advised me not to tell as i will only make things worse and 'clearing' my conscience will harm my h and probably many others.
i'm living with it but not finding it easy.
well the post i was reading this morning really got to me and as it was a long wait and my emotions took over.
I started talking to my h about this spiritual journey i am on. explained that i have unresolved issues regarding abandonment. explained my separation anxiety. told him that neither he nor i have faced what happened when he became very ill. talked about my problems regarding friends and how I'm an all or nothing person. the reasons i want to get away from our dysfunctional friends and how they are impacting my life and our marriage. all things I've tried to talk to him about at one time or another but never all at the same time.
i explained that i should have kept going to that psychologist i only went to once 6 yrs ago, but since he didnt want me to, all my probs are still there. i also told him that i had found this support group online and that i talk to people with the same problems. I'm not saying he rolled his eyes at the mention of a support group but...well his body language spoke for itself.
these are baby steps i know but this really is another world for my H. how could he ever understand my LA and EMA?
my h reacted by saying that he feels we should make a clean break and sell our house and start a new life somewhere else. i tried to explain that running away from our pain is not the answer. to no avail. we are just not on the same wavelength.
that's when the waterworks started. i couldnt stop myself. the fear and sadness rising up was unstoppable. i really do think I'm terrified of losing him deep down. these fears started before his illness when i suspected he was involved with another woman. I've said this all before...
after a few minutes he went in for his brain and spinal cord scans and i stayed in the waiting room. and cried and cried for over an hour. in public.
i dont know what the answer is but if i do tell him any time soon i reckon i'll just cause a lot more damage to him. and to my daughters. i honestly dont care what happens to me. when i hit rock bottom i felt ready to die and that hasnt really changed even tho I'm in recovery. not talking about suicide but just about being ready to face my maker if my time is up.
just thought I'd share this as my whole day has been filled with these thoughts.
greta
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Post by newborn on Jan 21, 2010 8:16:03 GMT -8
(((greta)))
Please know that you're not alone in your decision. I've decided that I'm not volunteering information about my affair.
My husband directly asked me a while ago, probably 1 year or more, if there was someone else, and I answered him honestly. But it was still an emotional affair at the time.
Since then, there have been many stops and starts between myself and my POA - on both sides. And we did meet and have sex.
If I'm asked directly, I will probably tell the truth, but it's not my preference. My husband is so angry about the separation and EA, I don't think it would be beneficial or healing to tell him about the PA. I've read many stories online about how a marriage can become stronger after an affair, but I'm afraid I don't see that happening in my situation.
new
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Post by geedee on Jan 21, 2010 8:27:27 GMT -8
thanks new. when i got back from that long weekend ( spent thursday night/frid morning with my POA), and went to bed, my h said he had dreamt that i had made love to another man that night (he knew i was staying in a hotel and that was the first time i had ever slept in a hotel room 'alone') i was still high, i really was, and laughed it off. teased him about being jealous. i joked i had picked up two guys at the airport and slept with them both. how insane was that??? i really was completely out of my mind at the time.  greta |
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Post by Havefaith on Jan 21, 2010 10:47:16 GMT -8
Refer to the 12 steps and the amends process.
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Post by newborn on Jan 21, 2010 11:36:09 GMT -8
I agree that we need to apologize for our actions and ask for forgiveness - understanding that we cannot make someone forgive us.
On several occasions - including the one above - I have asked my husband to forgive me for the EA and for the pain I've caused him.
In terms of the PA, if my husband and I ever got to the point of being in counseling and I could see that we were truly working toward staying together and I felt safe, I would be willing to confess to him. But at the moment I'm not.
I understand that underneath the excuses is my struggle with control and my inability to determine the outcome of a situation, but once information is given, it can't be taken back. And I'm not willing to live with the fallout - not only from him, but with my children and extended family and friends.
So, being an avoidant, I'm going to avoid for the time being. It's a choice. And, I choose silence.
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Post by ok2bme on Jan 21, 2010 23:53:06 GMT -8
I do not choose to tell. Just as he did not choose to tell where he was for days at a time, for years while he was addicted to drugs. His amends was to not repeat it & he didn't (the being gone all night).
I'm not sure that we will even stay together. If we do, my amends will be to return to being faithful. If we don't stay together, I don't see the benefit of telling, I do see the harm. My intent is to not only feel better but to do better & that's about the extent of my amends.
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Post by primrose on Jan 21, 2010 23:59:49 GMT -8
Greta, huge hug to you for your day yesterday. I think you are doing things in the right way for you and your husband and that things change in time, so who knows where you'll be in 6 months, but for now, not telling him seems like exactly the right thing. That's only my take of course, I don't know (obviously!) But I know very well what waiting in a room in the MRI department in a hospital does to people. I know very well. I've sat there myself with my husband's keys and belt and wedding ring in my hands, and felt that those are the things that are left behind when someone dies. That led me to act out, no question.
Probably he does know (bizarre the similarities in our life as my husband too dreamt I was unfaithful) and I guess, who wants to know really when you're dealing with cancer? I wouldn't want to know when I was going through that.
And you cried in the waiting room, sweetheart I really feel for you, those places reek of fear and loss. Baby steps or not, you're doing what you can and getting through the feelings, and he's signalled quite clearly to you that, for now, he doesn't want to know. Actually, I can't blame him! It's too much probably to think about mortality and also the possible fear of being fully honest in a marriage.
I'd say get well dear heart, grieve, learn, take care of yourself, and don't focus on disclosure, that'll come in time, if it comes at all, in your HPs time. Primrose.
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Post by geedee on Jan 22, 2010 1:19:09 GMT -8
hey Primrose,
your post got me crying again when i read it five mins ago.
there was me sitting with my h's jacket in my lap...fixing his belt...tears dropping onto it as i remembered what is was like when he cried in my arms just before going into surgery. one of only a few times he has ever cried in front of me in the 25 yrs we've known each other.
another time was when we started seeing each other. i met him during my year abroad studying here and we fell head over heels. we were together almost all the time for those first six months, got very involved with each other's large families. it was very passionate and liberating for me (after a life of sexual repression and a failed three year relationship with a fellow brit)
when i had to return to the uk he cried at the airport cos he couldnt face the thought of us not being together but he was the one who had convinced me not to drop out of uni when we fell in love.
he was my POA but we really loved each other! we really did.
thanks to you I'm starting to remember stuff that I'd been denying to myself. and it is all about my fears of abandonment and losing him and having to learn to really fend for myself again.
thats why i wanted my POA to save me. thats why i felt the need for validation and to hear that i was still good enough and attractive enough for another man to want me. I had never needed that until i thought i was going to lose my H. whether to another woman or to his cancer, it was still fear of losing him.
i promised myself i wouldnt cry again today - my wrinkles and red eyes are not very becoming LOL- but I'm glad I'm just letting these things out.
God bless you P,
greta
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Post by primrose on Jan 22, 2010 1:47:01 GMT -8
 ach, makes me cry too. Hardly surprising really! I did a chair yesterday in a meeting and I was talking about my husband getting ill and WHAM I felt it like a stone crush me. In a meeting with other people looking at you with kindness and listening in silence to you, it cuts to the heart. Think it's great to get it all out and not give ourselves a hard time with guilt. And hey, red eyes calm after time and I have a fab facial exercise for eye wrinkles if you need it xx |
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Post by geedee on Jan 22, 2010 1:52:26 GMT -8
yeah, think i need that exercise! Post it in 'fun off topic stuff' and we'll all do it together on red-eye days! LOL
greta xxx
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Post by primrose on Jan 22, 2010 5:46:59 GMT -8
yeah, think i need that exercise! Post it in 'fun off topic stuff' and we'll all do it together on red-eye days! LOL greta xxx will do. |
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Post by primrose on Jan 22, 2010 6:01:46 GMT -8
Your husband must love you very much, Primrose, so to understand your feelings and changes since you started your love addiction for your poa. My husband "knew" too, just hearing my voice on the phone during the days I met my poa... I do feel the love my husband has for me, this is a great thing to me, especially now that I'm in recovery. I told my husband about poa at the time. Now after years he knows I've been in addiction for a long time but we don't talk about it very openly. Hmmm I don't think he understands really. He's never felt obsession the way I have. Not to say he's perfect (far from it!) But he did have a much healthier family than I did, and it shows in the way he is. And that means he just does not get being addicted to a person. The only time he got close to being unfaithful he told me straight away and simply couldn't do two things at once. He said it would have been impossible for him to carry on with me and be duplicitous. Lies aren't as easy for him as breathing (I was brought up like that) our marriage is a work in progress, although I have to say a happy work in progress yay! If it weren't for recovery I would have destroyed or be destroying my marriage. Not easy to talk to a spouse about love addiction ever I think. I've had some gut wrenching conversations where withdrawal from my POA looked like playing in the park! In those conversations I realised what I truly felt. It's one thing to "come off" a narcissist I was addicted to, quite another to look in the eyes of a man I've loved since I was 20 and see him in pain, pain because I was unfaithful. Phewwww awful. Well, as always it's a process, am sure we're always working towards intimacy in recovery, even if I do it at the pace of a very reluctant lazy snail Primrose. |
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Post by Woof on Mar 23, 2010 6:25:28 GMT -8
I feel like a hypocrit saying this but I have been on both sides of this discussion. The truth is never easy to tell especially to the one it matters most. It is a risk just like sharing your feelings about love for the first time and risking rejection. But for me receiving the truth from a lover is a soulful and reiieving moment. At some level we all know. We just need to have our intuition validated. We hope our love will tell us and reset or make stronger the bond. I told my wife 19 years ago. I told about everything. But only because I thought it was over and what the hell, it doesn't matter any more anyway except to clear the tremendous burden. The burden was seeing a laundry list of acting out everytime we were together and having to push those memories way down and act normal. But that hiding was erroding my soul. It was something I always did to keep the peace. I discovered early on that I could hold huge secrets and pretend. Haven't we all greta and primrose. Today I am struggling with another long list of acting out. I said I would not tell the truth without a therapist present. After 30 years it has gotten harder not easier to tell. The worst is the pain I see in her eyes. It's the little girl I don't want to hurt. I know her adult can take it. But I love the truth when it is given to me. It has always bonded me to the person saying it. It has freed me every time. When I used to ask my POA something, I already knew at least something. When she risked the truth, I loved her so much. Only once I did not enjoy the truth. It was a girl friend I practically worshipped. Then she was gone. I hugged her so warmly when we met again first day of college. She said you'll never know what Ive been through this summer, how hard my life was. I would have called you but I didn't know if the baby was yours or Marks. WHAT!!! I never new about Mark. But then I remembered I did at some level and pushed the doubts way down. I remembered seeing them look at each other. How lovers look. I felt free from her. For once a torch quenched out. But two dozen POAs since then was a huge burden to share with my wife and a baby girl. But we survived. I feel the regret of not being truthful again for the sake of peace keeping.
I will work on the truth today. I'm back at square one. woof
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Post by veronica on Jul 23, 2011 10:45:33 GMT -8
In keeping with the 9th step it's important to distinguish between the opportunity to indulge in my addict's love of drama, emotional turmoil, and even control in the relationship by hurting someone, and repairing the harm I've done.
I treat my sponsor as my confessor, not my spouse. Sponsors are also very good for saying, "Ummmm, does your spouse know about this?"
Telling the truth per se isn't making amends, it can be the exact opposite, it could be part of our addiction. Its like how Angel was talking about how you can hook POAs with deep honesty, sharing and openness.
Being honest and confessing are two different activities too. Confession is unburdening myselves fully to another. That's something I do for my spiritual integrity. But it could definitely be abusive if shared with someone who isn't objective.
This is so tricky and I can rarely figure out when do it alone, this is exactly where my addiction is at it's most cunning.
My 2 cents if you've had a physical affair, then you've opened your spouse up to disease and you absolutely need to be honest that they've been exposed to disease. Even if you test negative, it doesn't mean they will. For sure, giving them that information is an amend and control over their health.
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Post by floatingboat on Nov 11, 2011 7:56:45 GMT -8
I am fearful about what my h would do if I confess to him about my affair. he can be frightening. I believe he would try all means to make my life miserable. And he would succeed. I am no match to him in terms of revenge. He is a determined and very smart man.
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Post by Loving My Life on Nov 11, 2011 8:34:08 GMT -8
floatingboat, if you think it will cause you more grief to confess this to him, dont do it yet. confess your secrets here. and ask your HP for comfort. dont cause yourself more stress. the big book says to tell as long as others are not hurt or damaged.
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ach, makes me cry too. Hardly surprising really! I did a chair yesterday in a meeting and I was talking about my husband getting ill and WHAM I felt it like a stone crush me. In a meeting with other people looking at you with kindness and listening in silence to you, it cuts to the heart. Think it's great to get it all out and not give ourselves a hard time with guilt. And hey, red eyes calm after time and I have a fab facial exercise for eye wrinkles if you need it 
