Natural for men or is it a Love addicts desire ???

Hi jonny how are you? I was so sorry to hear about your wife.

I think this is a really good post. In a way it sounds to me a little like the addict still talking just a little because I feel that someone recovered would already have established what is or is not right for them. I think in reocvery you create rules for yourself and because you are honouring yourself you stick to theses rules.

I would not be able to be with someone I was not attracted to, however I do not necessarily think this is an instant thing . Attraction for me is about personality, when this has me hooked then the way someone smiles, or turns their head etc can induce major feelings of attraction. I think to expect to see the person you want without getting to know them is perhaps an outdated idea. perhaps your not really ready yet?

Yes so many poeple can be needy out there in the dating world. It must be hard for you. In the end though like recovery funnily enough it takes a kind of commitment and faith that you will meet someone when its healthy and right. You jsut stick with it and try not to get to hung up on meeting the one. what wll be will be.

By all means go for poepe who you find pleasing to the eye if thats your thing, but be open to others. If your not ready for certain things and are looking for something light-hearted perhaps you could out-line this straight away. Women are not in the wrong for wanting commitment that you cannot give.

best wishes

winnie

Like most men, Jonny, you are addicted to limerence. I blame the media. Boys come of age watching air-brushed pictures of beautiful women. This becomes their imago and they spend the rest of their lives looking for this, and becoming addicted to it. You are less likely to become addicted to an ordinary-looking women who is beautiful within.

I have a client who comes to me each week crying because he is so lonely. "Where are you going to meet women I ask?" "You know that place down town where are the pretty women go," he replies. It is always hard for me to hide my disdain as I was always one of those plain women who got passed over.

There is an old song, "If you want to be happy for the rest of your life make a ugly woman your wife."

The truth is that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Old saying but so true.

Wonderfle comments from you all !!! 41 yrs ago when i first saw my wife to be aged only 15 i just could not stop looking at her she was so was so sweet and pretty i can even tell you what she was wearing that day and as you can imagine i became infatuated with her and it upset me lots when the infatuation disapppeared and thats when i became in love with her and told her i loved and kissed her the very day i lost her suddenly not even ill next to me in bed !!! so i know exactly what the inner gualities consist of and all the inner things that make you love and want to care for each other and go on to have a lovely family !!!

But i still need in the first instance to get an instant physical attraction maybe its a mixture of desire and lust as most men are fuled with this and then you can progress and get to know each other .... its an overall picture of what gives me pleasure and pleasing to my eye...i dont think its superfitial or shallow its just what i desire and need in a relationship to start with !!! but as long as it appears to be me personally and not fuled by love addiction i can try and understand it better !!!

As far as the women i have dated so far like you say i will only know if the right one comes along when i feel i want to commit !!!

Its all just a massive learing curve for me to start all over again i try to convince my current girlfriend lets just have fun but again within weeks she want me to move in with her ... she is very insecure and and can see exacly why she is this way (because of her passed ) but overall its lots of demands on me at such an early stage in our relationship...she is not english and we do have a language barrier but i chose this situation thinking i would not be able to compare her to my wife as looking and being of a different culture (Chinese) but like my youngest son says a women is a women where ever she comes from !!!

It was very difficult at first still feeling very loyal to my wife and having two sons and a daughter to answer to ....wow its all very complecated compared to when i was just 20 yrs old but as my youngest sons says its all changed since the sixties dad you need my advice now hahaha

jonny xxx

hi winnie

Yes you are correct and i do meet many other women in the course of my life and i can assure you if any of them did appeal to me i would pursue the situation now but in most of my life i have never really met such a person but i do realise that many pretty women if i spent time with them i may soon reailse i dont like thier inner person so sometimes its almost like always wanting something you cant have which is a very strong driving force or desire ...

I have lots of women freinds who i adore as freinds and get on with them amazingly but i dont fancy any of them sexually but adore them and their wonderfel personallity and company and get on so well together and love each others company !! so i do understand what you are saying but for me it must be a full package inclu the way they dress even must be girly and feminine or not at all and i will not use a women or hurt her just for sex unless she knew it was just for fun from the start !!! so i suppose all people are different in what they want out of life !! one again thank you very much for all your help !! maybe its in my personality to want everything perfect heheheheh my wife was more easy going and took life as it came !!

Maybe its the differnce between dreams and reallity this is why i question the love addict eliment in my life ? like you say it like looking for the lightning buzz but we all know it does not last as your body chemicals change ! so maybe it is a dream !!

I have read the links on The Chemistry of Love above and they are very informative and interesting !!

PS....Just Out of interest Where and when did the word Limerence come from as i have looked in my 1985 The Oxford Current English Dictionary and the word does not appear !!!

jonny

jonny you know they update that thing every year thats an out of date copy you have there!!! tenov wrote 'Love and Limerence – the Experience of Being in Love', she was a psychologist.

I am in a happy relationship jonny and at first i dint feel a massive attraction for my boy-friend. I also really need the physical spark to be with someone- however as our friendship grew so did my attraction. I now find him stunning to look at....and no its not a dream!!!!!!

Its great that your spending time with women and have lovely friendships, perhaps you just need to sit back and wait for someone who you click with to come along and not analyze yourself to much, you actually sound like you have it sussed and are open to all types of people. What more can you ask of yourself?

perhaps you could do the steps or such like to remind you things that you may have forgotten?

happy new year


winnie

Winnie & Angel that was my experience too. I remember in my teens the first time someone found me attractive and said so - it was like a drug rush. Probably the first time I felt wanted. Then I'd use it to get attention but it would never turn into a relationship so it just increased the amount of rejection I felt - like a drug it had a bad low.

Hmm my last POA mentioned quite a few 'crazy' exes and it makes me wonder if that's a warning sign of a narcissist - because us love addicts are always attracted to them!

I have been reading this thread, and I have a question for all of you regarding self image. Yes, I got a lot of self esteem from my POA who was meeting the gaps that I needed filled in regards to being important, etc.

But I have also focused so much on my appearance and body image to feel good about myself. That is the codependent part needing someone else to make me feel good. I like it when I get positive comments about how I look, or about my body. I workout a lot, am careful what I eat, and people think I am younger than I am. My question is this: Should I stop worrying about my appearance, and let myself go?

I agree with Jonny that I tend to "befriend" or move towards pretty women. So the appearance of a woman is important to me, and I assume I have to look good for anyone to like me. Especially good looking women. I worry that if I was out of shape, no one would notice me, or like me.

Is this just another psychological challenge I need to work through? Is it wrong for me to get some of my self esteem needs met through outside influences like my looks?

hey angel, I actually think your on top of it, I think your really commited to recovery and I think as you recovery more the looks thing will be somehting you can keep a hold on. well done you I think its brilliant I really do.


New hope sometimes in recovery it seems people think they have to be saints ( I know I did at one point, what a burden!!!)

Of course you shouldn't stop looking after how you look!!!!!! If thats what you want to do and it makes you feel good I think its great. If it takes over your life and you display addictive traits about it then maybe start talking to your therapist, freinds, this board etc. But I think looking after your health and how you look is part of self esteem.

I think many LAs look for validation about themselves from their looks because they are unable to validate THEMSELVES from the inside. As you work on recovery you will find you need other poeple's validation less and less. i don't think this is just a co-dependant thing. BUT that doesn't mean you should stop looking sfter yourself. I see looking after myself as part of the creative part of me. I enjoy, and i m not baout to chnage for anyone.


Its not necessarily about pleasing others, its just about feeling good yourself. I don't think there is ANYTHING wrong with this. Its also nice to be complimented, this is absolutely fine I think as long as its not what your living off. As long as its not your only source of good feleing baout yourself, again, this has to come form within us, again, this happens in recovery.

Lets face it I think that many of us will always notice an attractive person, as a women I know I will, men are hard wired to do this. Testosterone is a strong chemical.
I also think we shouldn't beat ourselves up about this. we should be aware that there are all different types of poeple and be open to this. Other then that I think its time to stop finding things to remedy. In recovery you have to accept yourself too and you are allowed to be who you are.

Its best to concentrate on recovery and quite a few things will fall into place along side this.


best wishes happy new year!!

winnie

Happy New Year to all you too!

Angel and Winnie,
I think part of this whole self esteem thing is the paranoid part of me. I was thinking about how things were going for me the past few days. I am feeling needy and lonely for adult connection. I then jump to the thought what is wrong with me? I called a bunch of people yesterday to get connected with someone besides my daughters, and had a hard time getting ahold of anyone. This has me thinking about and wanting to contact my POA. I need a little validation besides what I am giving to myself.

Is this wrong, feeling the need for human adult contact? Is this part of the addiction? My wife is out of town with our sons. She called and talked to our daughter yesterday, but didn't call me. On some level, I feel less than important to her and all the people I left phone messages for. This is my core issue.

So my self esteem is lower, and I am feeling needy and vulnerable. I also have no plans for New Years and will probably just go to bed. My daughters are going out with friends, and I have no invitations.

So not feeling real good about myself. Then, adding to this I am not feeling real positive about my appearance. If I looked better, people would return my calls or invite me out! I know this is irrational, and not true, but I believe it on some level.

And to make matters more complicated, I injured myself about 10 days ago lifting weights and have been unable to exercise. I have been to multiple medical personnel, but I still can't workout. I think I tore a muscle, and I am still in pain. So I don't feel as good about my looks and myself.

My wife keeps telling me I am not young anymore, and I should relax and not worry about how I look. That I don't need to workout. It is not a time thing with her, because I make a point to workout when it has no impact on her whenever possible. Even if it means getting up at 4:45 a.m. to workout before work. I tell her it doesn't effect her if I workout or not, but it still bothers her that I workout. From a woman's perspective, can you give me any insight on this? Could it bother her other women find me attractive?

Sorry this sounds so needy. I feel like a loser just sharing this. But this is my pattern. I do well without outside validation for awhile, then I slide right back into needing it, and wanting to contact my POA to get some sort of connection with someone who I know finds me attractive.

New Hope

Greta and all,

I am 46 as well, and I completely get the business about not wanting to age. It kind of has me nervous and rattled. My wife works out, but hates it. Part of me thinks she does it just so she doesn't look heavy and out of shape compared to me. She used to love my body too, when we first started going out. She complemented me about it. She doesn't anymore. Maybe that is why I am seeking complements from other women??? And not just any woman. I want to be complemented by the nice looking, attractive, and fit women.

I also used to be attracted to my wife's body......I am taking a HUGE risk here, but I am not anymore. Part of it I think is that we aren't really connecting on any level, and that makes her less attractive.

At one point, my wife told me I was getting too big and muscular. That it made me look puffy. I have slimmed down since them losing about 10 pounds and now weight a little less than when she was really attracted to me. Silly me, I thought it would make me more desirable again, that she wouldn't be able to keep her hands off me, and I would get complements. Instead, I got nothing but comments about how I workout too often. (4-6 times a week, depending on my schedule) I am beginning to wonder if she was my POA that I married during our intense phase. (23 years ago) Now we just aren't that into each other?

Weird side story. I was out shopping with my daughters this afternoon, and I kept trying on clothes wondering if my current POA would like them. We only have a working relationship now, but in my convoluted mind, I thought it I looked really hot, really good, she would want to rekindle the relationship......I am feeling very vulnerable right now to some attractive woman who might massage my ego. I have been doing affirmations every day, throughout the day, but it isn't keep up with the demand from my inner child.

New Hope

new hope

If you go to the links by have faith above on The chemistry of love you will see how the chemicals in your body change and it may help you to understand all these changes in your relationship and try to bring back the limmerence into your relationship its not easy and you have to work at it but it can be done....and hopefully help you to get rid of some of your hangups its lots of hard work but i believe that is what love is all about working together to make each other happy in life !!! good luck !!!!

jonny

newhope...I don't know for sure of course,but maybe your wife thinks you are working too hard on your appearance and she thinks you are fine enough. Doesn't really sound like she's jealous or that would come out in a different way.

As a 56 year old woman I have "sufferd" my entire life about my looks. I am very short and wide! I have wide hips and shoulders and always battled the weight. I do look younger than my age and I guess my face looks ok. I don't have many wrinkles--but the glasses have been a turn off to most men. I am legally blind without them. I tried contacts--no way. I have NEVER felt attractive,but I know I am a good person and I am very loyal to a relationship. Tears are in my eyes now just thinking about my appearence and the heartache it has caused me. I have not been intimate in my marriage for 10 years--since the honeymoo--so I haven't had any help from my H with my self esteem! I have had many men in my life,but I have always had to work at it. I guess to the point of obsession with most of them. One husband told everyone that he couldn't get rid of me so he married me! We were together 13 years. One husband always called me lard ass. That was his favorite put down I guess. One husband showed me the small size bikini underwear of his "girlfriend" while we were at the same laundry. It goes on and on.

The thing is I was never attracted to unattractive or ordinary men. I always picked the nice looking ones with good bodies. Looks was very important to me. My current H was slim and good looking when I met him. I liked his looks. In 10 years he has gained 90 pounds! He is not the man I married. All he does is work-sleep and eat. He ignores the doctors who tell him he will die if he doesn't do as they say. He has stents in his heart. He refuses to quit smoking or get any exercise.

When I met my current POA I was immediately attracted. The only POA in the past 11 years. He was very good looking to me. His body is hard as a rock. He actually has muscles! He cares about what he weighs and doesn't smoke. BUT I am always thinking about my appearance when I am with him. I am 5 years older. I know he is attracted to pretty women. He talks about it and it hurts me. Just like it has always hurt me when my men talk about pretty women. I never feel good enough.

The strange thing is my H never mentions my appearance or looks at other women. He has no interest in anything sexually. A friend told me that at least I didn't have to worry about him cheating!

Sorry for rambling--just a few thoughts from the unattractive female side of the subject. It sure is a complicated subject. To the men out there---if a woman seems interested in you--try to give her a chance. She could be beautiful inside--love you loyally--there could be great sex(I have been told that)--it could be a fulfilling relationship. One suggestion--if you do enter into a relationship with a woman who is not very high on the "pretty" scale--don't let her know that you think any less of her than you would a more attractive lady. Save it for your male friends or when you're not with her. Just a suggestion.

Havefaith,

Have Faith,

Thank you for your insight. Intellectually, I know all that you are saying is true. If I look at my pre-marriage relationships, you are completely correct, the intense feelings wore off, and we eventually broke up. I think I got engaged with my current wife during the intense phase. In retrospect, maybe I should have taken more time to get to the mature love phase first, before getting married. I rationalized that if millions of people have arranged marriages, and can make them work, I should be able to make mine work because I had choice in my partner.

I did really well the past few weeks with loving myself, and giving myself affirmations, and feeling like I didn't need outside validation. Now that I have had very little adult contact time the past week and a half, those affirmations are not as powerful.

I cleaned my house today like a crazy person thinking that when my wife gets home, she will be so happy and excited that she will be extra nice and kind to me. However, experience has taught me that rarely if ever happens. But, I rationalize, at least she won't be as angry when she gets home, if the house is nice. What kind of crazy thoughts are those? Super co-dependent thoughts, that's what kind.

Does everyone go through times (monthly) that they just don't feel connected to their peers? I feel connected with my children, but it is my job to nurture them, not vice versa. I just would like to get some sort of nurturing besides the nurturing I get from myself. My wife gives it when I am very ill. Otherwise, I am on my own. I have asked for it, and she has given it. She just needs to be reminded often, and I get tired of reminding her.........

Am I being a big baby?

new hope

I think i depended on my looks cos i didn't know how to work on my self esteem. I have learnt through here that it is based on right action. That all that I am doing is helping to build my selfesteem.

It is still early days yet and I need to remember to be gentle with myself. Today i feel old and anxious cos I didnt' get much sleep and I look tired.

so saying tht I am still in recovery and still doing what I need to do and that is part of building self esteem.