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Post by LovelyJune on Jan 4, 2010 7:18:32 GMT -8
Someone recently asked me, "When can I start dating again?" That question, sadly, has no black and white answer. Recovery is about knowing yourself and learning your limitations and what's best for you. The more you know about yourself, the better able you can determine the right answer. But there are questions you can ask yourself and guidelines you can follow. Also, my rule is not "follow your heart," but "follow your head and heart." Too often we go blindly into a new relationship. Try to stay as focused and realistic and present as possible. The longer you are able to do this, the better chance you have of seeing if a new guy or girl is right for you. To a love addict, almost everyone looks perfect right off the bat. That is why TIME IS ESSENTIAL to good decision making when it comes to dating. Make sure you are at a healthy point and make sure you wait a while before getting involved with someone.
Questions to ask yourself:
How long has it been since you last dated? What is your current frame of mind? Are you still obsessing over someone? What are your heart and mind telling you to do? Are you craving dating again? Or does it seem too weird to consider? Do you think you want to date again to hop back into a relationship so you don't have to be alone? What are your reasons for wanting to date?
Guidelines:
The best time to date and get involved with someone else is when:
1. You have a relatively clear understanding of WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU WANT.
2. You know how to use your boundaries and you use them.
3. You KNOW your values and you live by them and you are strong enough to hold onto them, even in the presence of some you love.
4. You are able to take care of yourself.
5. You are self-reliant (financially, emotionally).
6. You believe you are complete; you are happy and grateful and positive about life in general
7. You are not looking to date out of neediness or desperation or because everyone else is doing it.
8. You are not looking for a partner to make babies or support you financially or take care of you.
9. You are not looking for a partner to take away your loneliness or depression
10. You are not looking for a partner to be what you yourself should be all on your own.
11. You are not afraid to be alone
12. You are at a healthy point in your life (mentally and emotionally). For example, you've worked out anger issues or childhood nightmares, etc.
13. You are available to date! You are no longer married, you are not pulling the "open marriage" card, or you're not claiming to be "almost divorced" but still living with your ex. Close one door before opening another, otherwise you are sending the signal that you are not yet available. When people are interested in you and they are healthy, they want someone who is free and clear.
This should help, hope it does.
T
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jonm
New Member
Posts: 40
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Post by jonm on Jan 7, 2011 12:48:31 GMT -8
Your guideline are very enlightening telmita. I know I'm not there yet because I can honestly answer yes to about a quarter of them.
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Post by brooklynberry on Jan 7, 2011 13:44:30 GMT -8
I took a YEAR off
It wasn't easy but I spent the whole time really working on myself. I did the 12 steps with a sponsor and had nothing to distract me.
It was hard at first bc I wanted a relationship to escape. I powered through months of withdrawal. But as I got to know ME better, I really just dated me and had fun and made my world a great place to be.
When many of us start we often wonder how long we have to refrain from acting out so we can act out again (SLAA Big Book says this). So true. That urge was lifted.
It was AWESOME and totally worth it and I wouldn't have the great relationship I have now if I hadn't done that!
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Post by reinventmyself on Jan 7, 2011 14:17:02 GMT -8
I have done the same. . Taken time off and filled my life with friends and activities and enjoyed the solitude and not being accountable to anyone but myself. (relationship speaking)
It seems to go out the window when I start to date someone.
I really need to commit to the steps and/or start going to meetings.
I have researched and found many meetings in my area. . I am nervous about walking in that very first time. I can make excuses daily as to why I am not able to go to one.
Can anyone share their experience or say something that might motivate me?
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Post by tizzy on Mar 23, 2011 6:44:48 GMT -8
telmita, I agree with everything you said and think the guidelines you stated are absolutely where one should be before dating. But I wonder, there are so many people who aren't there and who get into relationships and marriages and still manage to seem very happy. How can that be? Is it possible to have not checked everything off of that list and still reach a state of happiness and contentment in your relationships? As I mentioned in another thread, could it be better to live in a state of very ignorant bliss? My brain says "Of course not" but goodness my heart just says "Jeez." Changing my way of thinking about love is so hard. But I'm doing it b/c it's what's best for me and I have to!
To be totally honest, sometimes a part of me wants to go right back to that place I was before finding this board and grab whatever fragments of happiness I can. But I know that's not a healthy frame of mind and that's exactly why I definitely need to postpone seeing men for the time being. But the high I get from male attention of guys I'm attracted to, even if its not healthy, feels soooo good. How will my body ever overcome that? It's literally like a chemical rush in my body and at the time it happens all I want is more of it. I know I need to stop that. I just hope I'm strong enough to get through this recovery. My mind is completely willing and on board but boy oh boy is my body weak right now :-(
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Post by LovelyJune on May 23, 2011 8:44:05 GMT -8
Hi Tizzy, I'm sorry I missed your question.
My response is this: this list is for Love Addicts who do not recognize the importance of being independent, learning to accept being alone, and knowing their values. If you know people who are in a relationship or getting married and they are lacking these things they will either learn them at some point (the hard way) or they will struggle with the relationship.
My mother's marriage to my father lasted 19. Everyone thought it was a match made in heaven, and yet my mother was deeply depressed throughout the last 10 years. Eventually, it fell apart like a crashing building once my mother found inner strength and realised that she had built her relationship on quicksand.
When she remarried, and lived with a man for 7 years before marrying him, she had become her own woman, and had most if not all of the above qualities. Her relationship, therefore, (since 1989) has been built on a solid foundation and has been a deeply loving one. SHe married a man who also had all these things on the list. Of course, sometimes she gets lonely. Of course, sometimes he's a little needy. But it's all in MODERATION, and if worse comes to worst, they could both survive without the other. This is the point. To have most of these things, and to keep yourself always in balance. Never "needing." You need food, water, shelter and clothing. You even need love (which can be found through family, children, friends or pets). You don't NEED romance or dating.
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saggie
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by saggie on May 23, 2011 16:34:25 GMT -8
"Never needing."
"You need love, you don`t need romance or dating"
I need to remember that as if my life depends on it. That is the one thing I keep forgeting.
Hi everyone, I have been away from the board for a while because I was working on myself. After fifteen years of dating, I finally, at the beginning of this year, found a place inside myself that I hadn`t known existed. A place where I`m complete without a man or romance.
Romantic Love has always been the one thing I was convinced was what was missing, what was making me feel this huge hole, this emptiness at the center of my being. After weeks of surviving horrible withdrawals, after accepting that my marriage was over, after accepting that I didn`t need to be with my POA, I finally began to feel whole. I was shocked that I could actually feel whole without a romantic relationship, but I did, and I still do.
I learned to have fun on my own, to provide for my own entertainment, to not reach for a phone and call POA when I needed a dose of dopamine, but to instead pick up a book or go the movies.
Now I go to the movies all the time by myself, and I`m having the best time of my life! I work full time and I go to college full time. I depend on myself and it feels great to be independent and to be the only one deciding my fate.
But recently I met someone, a guy who threatens my peace of mind by reminding me how needy I can be when I`m attracted to someone. I need to learn that I don`t need to need people, that they can still be in my life and it doesn`t have to be a matter of life and death with them.
I`m not sure how I`m going to do that though, that`s why I came back to the board. I need to never give my power away and need someone so badly that I feel like I will die and wither without them.
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mambo
Full Member
Posts: 111
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Post by mambo on May 23, 2011 18:20:56 GMT -8
LJ, I really needed to read this. I've been NC for a couple of weeks and for the first time in my life, I'm not obsessing over someone "new" to get over my last obsession. I'm so tempted to get back on the online dating sites. It's really me, myself and I right now.
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Post by LovelyJune on May 24, 2011 6:02:14 GMT -8
saggie...so wonderful to hear you found peace by yourself. But I'll tell you here and now from my vantage point: when you learn to love yourself and get to that good place it does not last UNLESS you work on it all the time. So, it's good that you're back, at least to maintain your strength and belief in yourself  @mambo: it's so hard to close one door before opening another. But your health depends on. In the financial world, it would be like buying a new house before yours sold. Then you've got two mortgages to deal with. That's a heavy burden if you're not financially secure. And let's face it, if you're in the early stages of recovery, you're not strong enough to start dating yet. In fact, I really believe that dating so soon after a break-up is ultimately a symptom of love addiction. So, hang in there and make the investment in YOU before moving forward. There are a gazillion women out there, and they're not going anywhere
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mambo
Full Member
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Post by mambo on May 24, 2011 8:08:48 GMT -8
Thanks LJ! Great analogy! Neither my wallet nor my heart can afford two mortgages! |
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Post by nvr2late on May 24, 2011 10:45:35 GMT -8
This is such an excellent thread.
LJ, have you read The Rules? There's a lot of anti-LA advice there, I found it interesting.
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Post by LovelyJune on May 24, 2011 10:47:02 GMT -8
The rules? What is that? Never heard of it. Link please Oh wait...The Rules! OK...so there's a lot of stuff in there? I'm guessing there's a lot of game playing. But I have to read it. Sometimes there are these completely superficial book that come out (He's Just Not That Into You, or Better Single Than Sorry) which really have a great message. But I don't know about The Rules. Hmmm... |
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Post by reinventmyself on May 24, 2011 14:09:16 GMT -8
when to date? I have a date tomorrow night.
So many thoughts go through my head.
I am finally at peace, more than I have been since my divorce 10 years ago. . why muck it up?
My life is full. . too full at times and I wonder how I managed having a BF for all of last year.
I don't miss the ' will he, won't he, should I, did I, what if, how come, now what, compromise, consider, etc. .
It's just a date I keep telling myself. . not a marriage proposal.
I keep asking myself. . `do I trust myself enough to know when to cut my losses?'
This is my one of my biggest challenges. I stay too long even when I have acknowledged the relationship has passed it's expiration date. This is where the irrevocable damage happens. . In between the discord and the making up and pretending everything is OK when it's not.
I've been working on my childhood issues in counseling. I need to be my own parent and pull the child out when she is in harms way.
I've been out with him twice. . I make sure I journal about everything I sense,see and hear.
So far it's been casual. Tomorrow night is a more formal date.
I am here reading everyday. . Funny how I had the same pattern last time. I typically have things to say and contribute regularly, but when I start considering dating or actively doing so. . I become silent. Something to think about.
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Post by dorkestbeforedawn on May 25, 2011 12:34:39 GMT -8
I am looking forward to reading about your date. Good luck! Maybe you can let me know how a healthy date goes, as opposed to getting drunk and jumping head first into a murky relationship. Or if anything goes wonky, you can give us tips on what to avoid.
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saggie
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by saggie on May 25, 2011 17:36:23 GMT -8
Hi reinventmyself,
Recently I too found myself in the same predicament, twice, about dating. What to do?
Since I tend to fall for guys way too soon, I started liking this guy I met at my college about two months ago, even though alarm bells were ringing in my head - "he is a little too intense, a little unpredictable" - a little voice in my head said.
But it took a couple of days for me to finally talk myself into letting him go, and letting go of that posibility of what could have been - we had so many things in common, he was a very nice person and he really, really liked me. But he wasn`t for me. The only reason why I was able to let him go so easily and stopped talking to him(I`m a torchbearer who finds it virtually impossible to let go of men), is because I now know I can be happy and satisfied by myself, that I don`t need a relationship to make me feel complete.
A couple of weeks later I met another guy at a party, and the alarm bells rang immediately in my head because I only paid attention to this guy because he reminded me so much of my POA; he spoke like him, looked like him, came from the same country as him, and worse, he was friends with my POA. When we met, this guy told me he was sort of single, and he called me almost every day in the days following the party.
But when he invited me and my friends to his house for a bbq party the following week, he was there with his girlfriend. I was shocked and upset of course, and not because he had a girlfriend, but because he had led me to believe something different.
But even after he misrepresented himself to me by letting me think he was single when he wasn`t, I still gave him the benefit of a doubt after he called many times in the ensuing days and apologized endlessly for making me feel uncomfortable when he hadn`t made it very obvious from the start that he was seeing someone.
But then I started to see I was repeating the same mistake I have always made - making excuses for men who treated me badly and letting them get away with murder - and I decided yesterday to never talk to this guy again. And when he called me last night, I didn`t pick up the phone, and even though I was very attracted to him, I know for sure I will never speak to him again, ever - (unless in the company of some of my friends since we know a lot of people in common). I`m done with him, I`m done with getting into relationships with men when my inner voice tells me something is not quite right.
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saggie
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by saggie on May 25, 2011 17:48:21 GMT -8
P.S. The guy I was talking about just called right now and I didn`t pick up the phone, and I don`t intend to ever return his calls. HOORAY!!
It feels weird to ignore someone I`m attracted to, feels very rude, and I`m tempted to talk to him just so I don`t appear rude. But I`m sticking to me guns. I don`t need his drama, I don`t need him!!
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Post by Healing Ku'uipo on May 25, 2011 18:29:14 GMT -8
I am still to imbalanced to Date.
I think if I were to try I would be WAY to ON.. Gushing, or shy etc...
I would get super high- then crash...
I am realizing this about myself with many things I do. I want to go into something next with a level head!
I can see how it's possible now, that's a start!
Continuing my work....
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Post by emilywebb on May 30, 2011 7:02:20 GMT -8
Lovely June, the Rules: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_RulesI don't think it's so much game-playing per se. When you put on a nice dress or put on make-up to go out on a date, you're preparing yourself physically for your date. Most people don't dress like they do on first dates all the time. People get to the all tshirts-all-the-time point of the relationship. The Rules has some helpful hints and tips for love addicts and former love addicts. I haven't read the book, but I've researched a lot of it on the internet. The Rules is about putting yourself first and having standards in a relationship. I don't agree necessarily with everything they say, but the biggest point the authors make is to not ever chase after someone and to put yourself first. |
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Post by brooklynberry on May 30, 2011 18:02:10 GMT -8
dating plan.
all about the dating plan.
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Post by LovelyJune on Jun 1, 2011 4:30:42 GMT -8
Emily, that sounds like it makes sense.
I just worry about some of these Cosmo-esque dating tips that say things like: "And if he calls, tell him you're busy (when you're really not)." Or "He should be begging you for a date" (umm, hello stalkerish behavior?) Or even, "Date his best friend to make him want you back. (really BAD idea playing with someone else's emotions just to serve an ulterior motive).
@reinvent...How was your date?
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Post by faubourg on Jun 20, 2011 12:36:48 GMT -8
thank you for this subject! i was asking myself this question today actually!
i have worked a lot on myself these last years and i have only two no's to the guidelines list
It feels good to see how much i have improved
i am very afraid to step into dating again but it is not spiritual anymore to avoid men it would be a "spiritual" excuse not to date again because i am ready now
the only thing i am worried about is that i am 39 and have no child and i feel a tension about this, i feel ill at ease to say to a man that i want children, this question is tricky for me i feel like it is a power game between the man and me because a man can still have children long after women, i feel a man can feel this is a weakness i have : i have to be at peace with that question and that desire
apart from that i am ready to practise again and i see how much i attract different types of men now and am attracted to different types of men! what a relief
i am scared and always have been to let a man i really fancy and who is available enter my life even for a short time,
i must remind myself that i deserve love and happiness that it is a need i have a real deep need and that knowing my true needs and fulfilling them is empowering and is a gift to myself and one of the reasons why i work my steps : to become myself and to fulfill my needs
I will pray tonight to have the courage to date again,
thank you for your shares
Faubourg,
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Post by faubourg on Jun 20, 2011 12:49:58 GMT -8
@reinvent myself
I like the idea of journaling,
i have realized that with feeling what i feel when i am with someone (even a friend) instead of being in my head is when i am really present in the situation and that i SEE what is really happening inside of me in the presence of the other person and also what is happening with the person, how we interract together for real!
for ex: one day i was with a very cute man and my head was telling me i was lucky to be with him but at one point i checked my gut feelings, my sensations, and actually i felt bored and i felt i was wasting my time and that apparently there was a nice complicity but after checking in with myself i realized i was only listening to him and paying him compliments and that not once in like two hours did we talk about me. I stopped talking replying and I said nothing then big silence and he went on about him again THEN i decided it was time to go home and take care of me
from that day, huge shift! i listen to what i feel as much as i can
it is more difficult when there are several people
journaling would be one step ahead when i date and it would help me overcome my fear, because it would be like doing homework and being less emotional about it,
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Post by LovelyJune on Jun 25, 2011 3:22:55 GMT -8
faubourg-- remember that when you choose a mate (not a date, but someone you have dated and want to spend more time with) they should share your same values. In that case, it is VERY important to find someone who also wants children WITH YOU. If you try to suppress this desire of yours so as to appear to be too confident or not "needing" your needs to be met, this will cause trouble down the road if you get invovled with someone who already has kids or may not want them. Best to be upfront. MAYBE not on the first or second date, but definitely within a fair amount of time ( a few weeks- 5 or 6 serious dates?)
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Post by aabha on Jul 3, 2011 8:13:15 GMT -8
"To have most of these things, and to keep yourself always in balance. Never "needing." You need food, water, shelter and clothing. You even need love (which can be found through family, children, friends or pets). You don't NEED romance or dating." i love that thank you for the reminder |
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Post by LovelyJune on Aug 12, 2011 4:15:37 GMT -8
Sorry I am getting back to you so late on this. Relapses are tricky. I continued to have them my entire life until I actually GOT love addiction and changed. I tend to believe if you are still falling back into relapses (not tiny slips, but relapses) you may be missing the bigger picture: that you are still depending on a relationship outside yourself to avoid facing the pain of your life. Try to get to the heart of why you would use something or someone else as a tool to "hide" or be "swept away." This might help you understand what you need to counteract that.
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Post by twinsig on Aug 2, 2012 10:27:29 GMT -8
Think I'll print the list and study closely. There's a girl at church i sit with on Wednesday nights that id like to spend some time with. Not sure if I'm ready though, its been a year almost. Just taking and laughing together is nice.
Although it could be a subliminal experiment.
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Post by Jacarandagirl on Aug 2, 2012 13:25:50 GMT -8
I just read "The Rules" according to Ellen Fein and someone else, and I don't recommend them. They seems incredibly superficial to me. I'm starting to see my leaning is way more towards something I heard Byron Katie talking about. She responded to a woman at a workshop who was attracted to a man who was seeing someone else. This woman was basically asking BK if it was OK for her to just "be true" to herself and pursue this guy regardless. BK's response was along the lines of well, go ahead but if your game works out, and you get together, remember that eventually he will find out what kind of a person you really are (one who steals someone else's man). Because it all comes out in the end. We can hide who we really are only for so long. And if we do it to snag a man, it won't work out for ever.
She goes on to model a conversation she would have with someone she is attracted to. She says things like " I'm attracted to you and I want to know if you would like to go out with me?" and other things, I can't remember it all, on the first time she meets someone. Her approach, as far as I can tell, is really about having nothing to lose, when you already love and respect yourself.
I know this approach (upfront honesty) can clash with another important "rule" for LA's in dating, and that is not to blurt out all your secrets too soon. I think I fall somewhere inside that line. But so long as I can keep checking in with myself that I still love me, regardless of what they think of me, I'm OK. And if I'm in self-rejection, or needing his love, I can go away and question my thinking. I trust this guy I'm seeing is actually very interested in what I have to say, and shares honestly back. Gut feeling. If I'm wrong this time, I'll definitely reassess!
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Post by looking4direction on Aug 3, 2012 7:38:07 GMT -8
thanks for this topic.
I am honestly not sure if I will ever really be ready for a date or a relationship. My issues are so deep, it seems.
Whether or not I date, I am going to have to take responsibility for my problems and not expect a man to fix me or be my surrogate caregiver.
Also, I need to remember that I am not just good for romantic love or s*x.
And I want my prospective partner to be my friend, not just my lover. Dating, for me, I am coming to know is just like making a new friend. Go easy with the guy, see if you can be friends, and then decide if you can do it or not. If you can't, at least you have a friend. And a friend without "benefits"! lol
Carol
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Post by alishass2040 on Nov 17, 2012 2:35:14 GMT -8
I have done the same.
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Post by carodelz on Nov 20, 2014 6:48:11 GMT -8
As always, it is so great and helpful to spend time here! I am learning so much! I realize that I have never really "dated." I always thought it was because I was from Europe and in Europe it is a little bit different, less formal perhaps. But now I realize that I never dated because I was and still am struggling with love addiction issues. I always fell quickly in love and now I see that I fell in love with fantasies and not the real person, because I never even gave my self the chance to get to know the real person without getting immediately involved with them physically. I kept using the same strategy I learned as a child: projecting a fantasy onto someone and immediately bond with the fantasy, creating a pink bubble of love that in the end didn't really exist and was doomed to burst.
I am 48, went through a lot of disastrous relationships and a divorce after 23 years of marriage. Even though it seems like I failed over and over again in the department of relationships with men, I am happy to have the chance now to read about and learn and hear other people's experiences.
Thankful for everybody's input.
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