|
|
Post by pleadies on Mar 3, 2010 9:19:45 GMT -8
In the form aof a letter to a girl I love...or I thinks it's "love" . . .2 years now....we live far apart, see each other now & then - - - Thank You for resisting my help , , , really , , ,I mean it , , , This is what I needed , , ,to learn, to mature, to understand , , ,Thank You Your first e-mail to me . . . .. Wow, here’s somebody that gives a d**n about me . . . . .. How can I ever thank that person . . . . . . I know, I know: I can help this person in her predicament. My providing ‘things’ and ‘gift’ was my way of showing my appreciation for your liking me, my way of showing how much I like you , , ,then care for you , , ,then ‘love’ you . . . This is what I’ve done all my life: material ‘reward’ for accepting or liking me. ‘Material’ ? no, not degrading me or the other person….it just seems to be the correct way….the only way I feel I am showing my feelings….I guess, maybe, in the past my words were not considered credible or I did not receive the hoped response to my words….Hugs & kisses (even a child level) were seldom . . .unless I did something extreme ( like fix TV or parents car or….) Like I said above: I did all that I did as my way of showing my ‘feelings’ towards you . . . But ya know what ? It ‘dawned’ on me . . . maybe (I’m not sure, but if the shoe fits, wear it) subconsciously I’m trying to make you ‘addicted’ to me . . .no, not addicted to “me”, addicted what I can do for you . . . It seems to have worked in the past….kept a friend as long as I did stuff for ‘em Ya know what else? The monthly gift…..was to allow you the opportunity to enjoy some ‘non-essentials’, some luxuries, maybe once in a while a frivolous-makes-you-feel-good item (like a massage, or new purse, shoes or something….you know what I mean, I hope) Then it dawned on me….I’m giving you a peek at her (wife’s) world. I’m helping, and you don’t have to clean up behind me, cook or anything for me….don’t have to hug or kiss or put up with my wants…. And the thoughts keep rolling in: WOW, I’m giving you a peek at my world! I do for others, hope for, but am OK with nothing in return . . .my life for past decades…. Mmmm, Nothing in return  ? Well, nothing in the sense of what I’ve considered to be ‘return’. No hugs or kisses,,,, well, it’s obvious that our arms or lips are not a thousand miles long :-) I don’t see the written xox or other ‘romance’ words, so I wonder, and wonder, and wonder….I think, I feel, but the think and the feel seem to lead to different conclusions….every once in a while, I try to elicit some words….they may be there, I don’t seem them . . .might be my expectations of the words to look for are incorrect….but then, when I’m really lost, a paragraph will arrive and in it I derive sufficient information to align my thoughts and feelings Thank You so much for the wonderful learning / maturation supporting experience . . . You are a prize . . . |
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Mar 3, 2010 11:57:35 GMT -8
Pleadies, It will help if you come out of fantasy and start processing the pain you're in. This dreamy stuff is no good for you at all. Stop the dreamy writing, it's probably keeping you a bit high and out of reality. Stop with the love letters, the ruminating, the longing, the going on about hugs and kisses, it's all bad for you, keeping you in a bubble of unreality. You need to get real and feel what's under all the romantic blahblah. The way to do that is to give it up. You deserve much better than to live your life in longing and fantasy just to block your pain. Stop the romance, feel the pain that you're running away from, and your life will blossom in a real way. Best. P.
|
|
|
|
Post by pleadies on Mar 3, 2010 12:49:58 GMT -8
Primrose,
Thank You so very much for you words, and the time you took to write them.
The entry above 'In the form of a letter' is actually a journal . . .I've 90+ over the past 3 years.
I share these with my therapist - I find it of value in my 'analysis of me' . . .I am a very scientific person ( a Physicist - Engineer) and find this to be most beneficial, and comforting in times of stress. I have used the assessment-journalling to develop speak-sheets for me to memorize & present, verbally, to W.
I am afraid to jump...I'd rather crawl over the cliff , I feel like I have some semblence of control . . . if nothing else, I feel like I know where I'm going, rather than jump & wonder where I am... Is that CoDependent enough :-)
I am aware of 'analysis paralysis' and am probably guilty....
I also know I'm running out of time....well, at 61 it seems that way....when you're 20 or 30, you've got many decades of liveliness ahead....I also know, it can end in an instant.
I'm babbling again,
Thanks
|
|
Woof
Junior Member
Posts: 56
|
Post by Woof on Mar 10, 2010 1:03:01 GMT -8
Hey Pleadies, I am an engineer as well. But you've got me lost in your babbling. Can you just say how you are feeling. Like 'I feel like crying or I can't seem to cry. Or I feel hopeless because I am 61 and I feel time is running out for me and I am afraid to die alone'. Anyway something more direct. We are all love addicts here and will understand you without judging you. Please come out from hiding and tell us what you are feeling at the moment.
Thanks nickyg
|
|
|
|
Post by winnie on Mar 10, 2010 5:17:24 GMT -8
hey pleadies, tell us more baout you. I agree the way you have wriiten isn't really suitable for the board. I'm glad it helps you with your therapist. Its good to have effective stratergies.
I can't help but feel the way you write is a little dramatic, self indulgent and over the top! I'm sorry if thta sounds harsh but all of those things will contribute to you being a Love Addict. Time isn't running out, oyu can take contorl of this any time you want.
Keep posting , best wishes.
winnie
|
|
|
|
Post by pleadies on Mar 10, 2010 9:16:45 GMT -8
61 yr old married since 1973, met her in 1965, were 1 on 1 since meeting. Mom, Dad, me, sister ( sis & I both adopted) Neither parent 'bad' , ....(see entry on child of alc. thread) 4th grade on, saw little of parents: both worked... learned early on to do 'great things' to earn affection from parents ( big smile from Mom). Dad turned very ill while I was early Hi School; became 2nd man of the house (oversee repairs, finances, etc); dad passed when i was in Jr. Col. became man of house to alcy mom. Grilfriend (became W) move in with us.... . . one thing I've noticed, other than few days here and there, seldom 'alone' to make a decision that 'sticks'...I always yeailded to desires of those around me. 1st son born about 1.5 yr after marriage....(seemed like growing apart started) 2nd son born 5 yr later. Soon after, my 'new' jod is 200 mile away; W job could xfer. that was 1981. weekend vists (mostly repairs & build stuff) Sure, while away from home, met many fine ladys; other than 'coffee friends', honoired vows. 1988 we're finally all in one house....youngest went from diapers to Jr. High.... 1991 last 'visit' tween W and me 1992 she moves to her own bdrm 1994 I have an epiphany, dry up...was a 'if I drink, I drink to black out'...but kept house clea, cars fixed, lawn mowed....bathed & wasted... Part of the epiphany lead me / I slipped to suicidal depression . . . dragged my arse outa it. Met people, developed a social life outside of family (kids on all grown up & gone). . . .ummm, went way too far with one of the friends not in an instant, but over months ....a very enlightening year, and I don't mean that sarcastically. I've felt for decades, the 'love loss' is my fault - I did something to undeserve, or - haven't done enough to deserve, or - no dang good at it Could never get W to answer. Anyway: I "feel" my LA is due to my childhood environment - mom was a strong disciplinarian, and seldom gave hugs. Dad was a good guy, but very little just Father-son time...he worked all long weird hours. found mate that 'fit' the mold of what I experienced as 'how relationships are' : No Touch, or danged little. Went along until I began to ralize, the learn 'first hand', that touch is wonderful...a hug makes the sum warmer, a passionate kiss, well . . .what can I say...wow, I'm 45 and just now experience a kiss like that ? my goodness, i've missed a lot... here I am, 15 yr later, , , ,still care a lot for and about my W: have learned I can not change her...can only decide to continue to put up with or leave... |
|
|
|
Post by winnie on Mar 10, 2010 11:21:14 GMT -8
PLeadie thanks for taking the itme to write your story. Its hard because I don't want to be negative and make you feel that your not wanted here, you are!! :0 But I find your style of writing really hard to read. Its a little like with the facts your trying to get them out so quickly your just listing thme without telling oyur story, thats two different things. Then you seem to drift into a stream of conciousness.. " found mate that 'fit' the mold of what I experienced as 'how relationships are' : No Touch, or danged little. Went along until I began to ralize, the learn 'first hand', that touch is wonderful...a hug makes the sum warmer, a passionate kiss, well . . .what can I say...wow, I'm 45 and just now experience a kiss like that ? my goodness, i've missed a lot..." I don't really understand this I'm afraid. we're all allowed to be different and i think thats cool, but for people to respond and communicate with you your may have to adopt a more generic style for the board. Just a htought on how oyu can maximise your time on here. It sonds like you have some real self awareness on the past. Have you reda any books? I suggest getting if you haven't, Susan Peabody's book 'addicted to love ' is great. You seem a little frantic which is something i can relate to. I felt like that too when I first came to the board. Slow down if you can  This is a better way to absorb what you lean, you don't learn faster the quicker you do it. best wishes Winnie |
|
|
|
Post by ok2bme on Mar 10, 2010 20:19:55 GMT -8
Pleadies,
I understand your matter of fact/mechanical nature but also have to adjust my grasp at every sentence. It's ok though I did get to know you a bit & see your hurts.
Also, I related to your earlier post regarding material things. I'm far from extravagant but recall always finding a lil something to buy for my H, whether he asked for it or not. Then with my exPoA felt the same urge to get him lil things. He is a successful business man & has the means to get himself anything he would want. I guess it's cuz I thought of them all the time every where & then always wanted to make their life more enjoyable. That's an odd concept when it was me that needed the attention (self care). But yea, I get that one too.
Also felt a frustration for you when you talk about the Love Loss & not certain why & not getting an answer. I can not imagine the torment of not knowing. In the end for me, I guess it doesn't matter why, if it's not there, that's what is looked at, today. Before I could be told their reasoning/explaination would be a valid reason to go without my needs. Still is but not to the same extend.
The best is hoped for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by perfectday on Mar 11, 2010 0:29:02 GMT -8
with my exPoA felt the same urge to get him lil things. He is a successful business man & has the means to get himself anything he would want. I guess it's cuz I thought of them all the time every where & then always wanted to make their life more enjoyable. That's an odd concept when it was me that needed the attention (self care). Isn't that interesting? We do all these little things like buying gifts (I did that too) to make the other person happy but meanwhile who's taking care of us? If only we wanted to make ourselves feel as loved as we want to make them feel. |
|
|
|
Post by pleadies on Mar 12, 2010 9:29:57 GMT -8
If the others are like me (codep), we really don't want to ask anyone to take care of us . . .
it's somewhere, mixed up, between:
My problems are my problems, your problems are my problems....
and
I know what you need, I have these magic powers that I can tell if you happy or sad, needing of something, so I'll just get it for ya....
Some of our fustration comes from realizing our partner doesn't possess these magical powers...."Don't they see I'm hurting? sad? hungry?
Another source : (in our mind->) I've done this for you, and didn't get a thank you....or not the thank you I was hoping for.
It never dawns on us ;
"we did a favor that wasn't wanted"
. . maybe the lack of gratitude is their diplomatic way of saying "I didn't want you to do that"
As I study my self and look back, I have noticed the women in my life (my W, the OW in a physical affair, the other women that i really like) all share some common traits (in my eyes):
- they are the leftover, wallflower, not the prettiest, etc
- there is a real need for my 'mechanical' talents in their world
( house falling apart, car broken, multiple failed marriages, broke and almost financially destitue)
I have never 'been with' (high school days or since) a knock out....I always felt "I don't qualify"
(as compared to guys with cars, or football players, or richy$ boy, or handsome guy, etc)
so as a 'leftover' myself, I was always the knight in shining armour to the girl left behind ....
. . I oft wonder if that;'s why I met W, why I stayed . . .I was her knight....I don't qualify for better...and this one hasn't run away...I guess this is the one to marry...and don't get me wrong....I cared (loved?) her...and still care a heck a lot about her...I just don't "feel" it in return.
Now I'll adress some of the confusion in the previous post:
Both mom & dad wer mom & dad...what more can I say . . .
But they were not 'huggie' to each other, they were not overly huggie with me (or my sister).
Yes, got hugs (while burping after bottle), but most of the physical interface with the parents was punishment...because excellent was expected, doing well brought little to no praise.
This combined with many other nuiances (children are to be seen and not heard, "who do you think you are telling me what you want", etc) and leaning that if I did something really really neat (fix mom's appliance, fix dads car) I got 'knight in shining armour' accolades: eureka, one earns affection by doing something . . .not by just 'being'.
As children, what we see is what we believe life is. I saw no touch, mom as family resucuer, when not pie-eyed, If I want something...tuff unless i can figure out how....
So that's how life is...
I found a mate that fit that expectation; not lots of physical time, I can rescue, I'll take care of myself.
For those of you that are caretaker/enablers,,,think back to dating days...why din't the person, that you 'fell for', but DIDN'T let you caretake or enable...end up being the mate for life....
betcha you felt a little offed by ther persons refusal to let you take the lead....that person may have felt overwhelmed or embarrased by you taking the lead.
When someone entered your world and let you take the lead...chances are you married that person.
My W leat me take the lead , , ,and over the decades, I have take such a strong lead, she probably feels I think she's incapable....I think by now she knows differently, but why leave the goose that lays the golden eggs :-)
Why hasn't the goose left ? I dunno....maybe afraid he won't find someone appreciative of his egg laying capabilities ?
Maybe the discomfort of where I'm at is less than the 'percieved' discomfort from doing something about it....
I was 45 yr old when I had my affair; the OW was the 2nd woman in my life I ever did any more than share a soda with ( i was a virgin when i got married, W was 1st girl I ever 'touched').
Boy, did I learn a LOT. I learned women make noise, move, breath hard...when kissing !!! , let alone when .....
Also learned they can take the lead: walk over and kiss me , lead me by the hand to....
Gee, I always though pillow pushing, sheet tossing seen in movies was 'just movie stuff'....
I also always thougt : I must have done something to W to kill the romance, or I haven't done enough yet, or I'm not very good at it....
. . I've learned otherwise....
I hope the above is a bit more coherent :-)
Thank you for letting me share
|
|
|
|
Post by pleadies on Mar 12, 2010 14:05:34 GMT -8
Good Books:
Language of Letting Go , Melody Beattie, been through this book 3 times.
Breaking Free of the Victim Trap , Diane Zimberoff , , ,read 3 times , , ,very upsetting 1st time through...
Although not self help books:
Connections, James Burke....sort of how history was changed as inventions and innovations evolved. an awesome phiolosophical treasure on how society chaged science and how science changed society.
Ascent of Man : Jacob Bronowski - a look at how civilizations and their societies either adapted to the environment or adapted the environment to them.... late caveman to (about) 1000 AD.
This is going to sound funny: I am a man, and I do get....ummmm,,,horney. My toilet reading ? NASA Tech Briefs and Toyota Trails (Toyota Land Cruiser stuff) I would think many guys have girly mags there, if not somewhere else...I don't have any in the house....I really don't care for them...I find the girls in girls clothing ads to be more 'attractive'. I';m more of a romantic than a 'jump yer bones' kinda guy.
(more about me, eh?) :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Mar 12, 2010 14:22:25 GMT -8
Pleadies, talking about your toilet reading and girlie mags isn't appropriate here. This is a recovery site. I've written to you before about your language. If you are genuinely interested in recovering from love addiction you will have to stop writing the way you currently are. P.
|
|
|
|
Post by pleadies on Mar 14, 2010 13:40:53 GMT -8
Ya know, I'm still trying to figure out if I am LA , SA, or just a normal person starved for affection. . .
I'll try to be way more careful,
|
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Mar 14, 2010 15:16:32 GMT -8
Pleadies, that's good to hear! You're welcome here, just keep that language in check, and when you work out what you are, if you find out you're an LA, start working a programme. It'll really help. P.
|
|
|
|
Post by pleadies on Mar 15, 2010 7:53:02 GMT -8
Thank You . . .
Never considered my language as offensive, bad or not acceptable in 'open' public...
I know my typing & spelling is poor :-)
I apparently determined, from reading some other posts (and on other threads) an improprer picture of what's acceptable . . .sorry . . .
|
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Mar 15, 2010 10:27:26 GMT -8
If you notice anything offensive, flag it up. This is a board for people to feel safe. Offensive language and sexual content isn't conducive to recovery. We all need to be careful. P.
|
|
|
|
Post by pleadies on Mar 16, 2010 7:38:47 GMT -8
I have found nothing offensive.
As for 'sexual content'; maybe I misunderstand the context of use: people dicussing a relationship, and in the discussion..."...the sex was great..." or "..we did it (x often)..."; again, not offensive. I'll admit, it is a bit bothersome 'to me' when people describe a frequency (e.g., "...once aweek has fallen to once a month or so...") , with me...well, years since....anyway...
Based on what I've seen others write, I failed to sense that my discussion of what I read could be offensive or detracting to someone elses recovery.
I can see in retrospect, however, where my 'romantic' verusu 'jump..." may be an 'attracter' to someone prone to reach out & do something... that was not my intent....I'm not a 13th stepper.
|
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Mar 16, 2010 9:31:08 GMT -8
Pleadies, like I said, it's important to learn what's appropriate on a site like this, and writing the way you did in your above post, to my mind is potentially triggering, and also why would you write about what you read in the loo? this is a recovery site and that's just unpleasant! I havent read the posts you refer to. People have to be careful here, we all do, a lot of us are recovering from SA as well as LA. If you read the guidelines you'll see what's acceptable and what isnt.
I'm not accusing you of being a 13th stepper, just asking you to be mindful. I was asked myself when I came to this site and had to clean up my language, it's just part of getting well to realise how writing about things like your sexual impulses isnt helpful to others here. Best. P.
|
|
|
|
Post by pleadies on Mar 16, 2010 15:15:44 GMT -8
My thought, behind sharing my 'reading material', was to show (describe) what kind of person I am....not a judgement . . .more this 'this is me'.
Loo ? I've heard theat word spoken...so, that's how it is spelled ? Ireally don't know....
The 13th....was for anyones edification, not just a response to you. I did not feel you were making any accusations....I want to ensure any reader knows I did not join this site to find a date.
|
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Mar 17, 2010 0:09:35 GMT -8
Pleadies, your intentions may be good, they may be saintly, whatever your intentions are, it is still important to be mindful of your language and the content of your posts. You might have the best intentions in the world and still be inappropriate. I've pointed out very clearly to you what is acceptable and it's written in the guidelines for the site. It's no different from being sensitive and appropriate in the workplace, am sure you're capable of doing it. P.
|
|
Woof
Junior Member
Posts: 56
|
Post by Woof on Apr 8, 2010 1:10:52 GMT -8
I have read this thread with interest as pleadies is an a fellow engineer type. What I come away with is how difficult it is for some to write clearly about their feelings and disease. The contrast is obvious when you see pleadies struggling to convey his point of view in his own style and the clarity of the resposes by primrose and others. I find myself wanting to jump in and fix pleadies by my own coda issues. I think his postings will become more congruent as his recovery and insight progress or maybe not. It is his journey and not mine. I wish him well. Woof
|
|
? Well, nothing in the sense of what I’ve considered to be ‘return’. No hugs or kisses,,,, well, it’s obvious that our arms or lips are not a thousand miles long :-)
This is a better way to absorb what you lean, you don't learn faster the quicker you do it. 
