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Post by faubourg on Jun 18, 2011 11:38:16 GMT -8
i think i dropped one today :-)
today i saw this guy i used to fancy, though he has some lovely qualities and an AMAZING body because his work is very physically, he is a weird guy in fact, he has a very dark side and that is sthg which attracted me too (unconsciously), i realized that thanks to him actually that i am attracted to guys who have this dark dark side, unhealthy compulsions to put it bluntly, but this one has some really bad habits (like the universe wanted me to see that behind this beautiful guy appearance lied the "dtoxic" almost, like a huge lesson to be learnt : he used to take drugs, date men women and transsexuals, prostitue himself with old men too and probably more...)
today after several months i saw him again and the attraction was gone, i found his clothing ridiculous and his immature attitude for a guy of his age, and i felt repuslion even! YES! (without judging him or despising him just feeling my sensations and feelings only) and i did not care whether he was there or not for most of the time really deeply
only a few triggers : i was "expecting" humiliation, i was expecting him to talk about a woman in front of me, and he did not, the weird thing is i was expecting it (it is sthg in me which has nothing to do with attraction to a guy in fact but it is worse when i like the guy), there was this hurt which was opening up again, the hurt of being ignored, not desired, not wanted, etc... so great to see that i still have to work on that
i could also have talked about a man i was dating that's what came up to my mind (great step ahead for me!)
another trigger : i felt sad though because he reminds me of my child need for love from people who were unhealthy for me, my father, my brothers, i used to crave for their love, attention, tenderness as a little girl and it was not there at all, the sadness i felt when i left where he was, my heart was heavy and really i felt like mourning sthg
i want to go to the unknown of a guy who won't be like my father and brothers even if it is not familiar and it is scary
so i dropped the torch i have with "weird" guys
Thank lord
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Post by caroclean on Jun 19, 2011 6:56:59 GMT -8
Hi faubourg... that is really great news ... I am working on it to achieve that .. thank you for your post
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Post by cynlew on Jun 25, 2011 11:14:23 GMT -8
I've just recently realized that I'm a torchbearer. But if there isn't a person around for me to obsess about I continue my obsession through books, movies etc always dreaming about how much happier I'll be to find that perfect someone.....yada yada yada My latest PoA probably has no idea that I've been obsessing about him. I've been nc with him (broke it once) but I've been continuing the fantasizing in my head and I've got to stop it! I've been reading the posts and I'm working on the suggestions there....transference, prayers.....I'm really desperate to break this cycle and I'm willing to try any and everything because the last thing I want is to finally stop obsessing about him because I've found a new person/thing to obsess about. I had read in someones post just last week that their therapist told them that cyber stalking was equivilant to `cutting. That made me sit up straight. . hope it does you as well. And I found this to be so true for me because even when I do painful things like look at his profile online, I get a rush which I am so ashamed to admit, how sick is that! So thanks for your posts and allowing me to vent.
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humilianna
Junior Member
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear ~ Buddhist Proverb
Posts: 73
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Post by humilianna on Jul 10, 2011 2:10:00 GMT -8
Yeah the idea of transference is very depressing. My lovers were all phantoms to begin with as most of our relations were in my head. That seems like the same unhealthy patterns. Starvation and big change in the way I spend my time is what I would like to see work.
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Post by caroclean on Jul 11, 2011 19:01:52 GMT -8
nice prayer. I am trying to figure it out how to break this addiction, there most be a way, I am working on it, I have my own opinions about it, thanks to Butterfly . I understand now the reason of many behaviors I have in the past. Thank you
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Post by torchbreaker on Sept 11, 2014 19:46:00 GMT -8
The love addict labels can be complicated, so don't give them too much weight.
You are only a torchbearer if the obsession goes on for years and years. Still being in love with your high school girlfriend for example.
One year just qualifies you as an OLA (obsessed love addict).
The other criteria for torchbearer is when you are always in love with the last person you loved until you transfer it to someone new.
Torchbearers are never out of love. They are either in love with someone in the present or still in love with the last person they loved.
You can also combine these. I was madly in love with my partner but got a crush on my therapist. It was the three of us in my head. Can you be something between an Torchbearer and an OLA? I find I carry a torch for a couple of years, and then through NC starvation, eventually the obsession fades somewhere between the 2 and 3 year mark. Then I'm 'fine' for a while... and somehow it works out that anywhere from 3-9 months after my obsession has faded, someone else comes along and reignites a totally new obsession. This has been my cycle for well over a decade.
So, I'm not technically passing the torch on to someone new... and before reading this, assumed I was a torchbearer.
I should add that although, the obsession fades, they are never totally gone. I may even a have a dream about them a couple of times a year. But I have zero interest in cyberstalking and thoughts of them do stream in and out, but are minimal. There is no more pain associated with thoughts of them - so for me, it's freedom from longing and obsession, even if they will never be 100% gone. I wish that freedom would remain, but somehow someone new worms their way into my psyche soon after :-( :-(
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Post by Susan Peabody on Sept 12, 2014 3:06:39 GMT -8
All the types of love addicts overlap and can be not only complicated, but unique only to you. The hallmark of the Torchbearer is that no contact does not work and they continue to love someone over time even after they have moved on and are with someone else. I had a client who had been married for 35 years and still secretly loved his high school sweetheart. His wife found out when he tried to contact her and she left him. He could not stop loving her. He was in pain. This is how it works without treatment. With treatment the love is diluted and not painful anymore. It is a sentimental attachment to someone in the past. With most people love eventually dies after no contact. With a torchbearer love never dies, but it stops hurting.
I was an obsessed love addict, then torchbearer, then relationship addict. They all overlapped.
When it comes to labels we are always guessing and we should always trust our own instincts above those of others, even professionals.
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 12, 2014 4:16:24 GMT -8
torchbreaker,
Your pattern sounds an awful lot like mine. I think the important thing to realize here is not what label to place on yourself, but WHY you do what you do. The exact label is not important. What is important is how your brain feels relief, freedom, peace, calm, etc. simply by summoning thoughts of a person either real or imagined, present or past. We do this typically for one reason and one reason only: it helps us get through the day. It is our defense mechanism. It takes away the pain of having to face what real and scary problems we might not want to face.
Love addiction and torch bearing are no different than any other obsession. It's just that we choose to obsess over people instead of alcohol, drugs, sex, TV, food, whatever.
Once you figure out what you are trying to avoid (and here's a hint, it's usually not loneliness, but something far scarier like, "being responsible for your life," or "taking care of yourself finically" or "growing up...") then you must face that, no matter how much it scares you, and move through it and figure out a way to handle whatever it is. Once you do that, you have removed the NEED (and believe me, it's a need!) for your fix. You've essentially, filled the perceived void and realized that there wasn't a void at all.
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Post by torchbreaker on Sept 14, 2014 22:14:18 GMT -8
torchbreaker, Your pattern sounds an awful lot like mine. I think the important thing to realize here is not what label to place on yourself, but WHY you do what you do. The exact label is not important. What is important is how your brain feels relief, freedom, peace, calm, etc. simply by summoning thoughts of a person either real or imagined, present or past. We do this typically for one reason and one reason only: it helps us get through the day. It is our defense mechanism. It takes away the pain of having to face what real and scary problems we might not want to face. Love addiction and torch bearing are no different than any other obsession. It's just that we choose to obsess over people instead of alcohol, drugs, sex, TV, food, whatever. Once you figure out what you are trying to avoid (and here's a hint, it's usually not loneliness, but something far scarier like, "being responsible for your life," or "taking care of yourself finically" or "growing up...") then you must face that, no matter how much it scares you, and move through it and figure out a way to handle whatever it is. Once you do that, you have removed the NEED (and believe me, it's a need!) for your fix. You've essentially, filled the perceived void and realized that there wasn't a void at all. Thanks LovelyJune, That's interesting to know we have similar patterns. I've actually read these boards top to bottom (though I don't post much) and have probably scoured the archives of the entire internet on all things love addiction... though might be ready for a fresh crop of articles, lol. I have a deep intellectual understanding of what drives this compulsion to think of whatever POA has the limelight... my childhood, what's missing from my present life, my fears, etc... yet it doesn't really help.
Understanding this still doesn't seem to help. It did the first time I discovered there was a name for it - Love Addiction... before I was just swimming in confusion. The support on the boards and in occasional SLAA meetings (admittedly, haven't felt like the right fit for me) were a huge shift for me. Felt like I could beat this thing. And I did, for a while. Until... the new POA waltzed into my life. It wasn't even a romantic relationship, just fast, close friends. But, they did the dishonor of heavily flirting (while drunk) with me one night, and I knew right away that I was going to be heading downhill, fast. And I have been ever since. This person lives far away from me, so it's been almost 6 months since I've seen them with irregular and not particularly satisfying contact (I know, I know...NC, lol). I wish I never met them or got baited into falling for them to only be released back into the cold sea. But what's done is done. I'd like to mention that this POA is by far the most screwed up of all of them, thus far (of course, it wasn't until I was hooked, that I began to see that side)... and even with this clear understanding (addicted & avoidant with their significant other, doesn't seem to properly connect to their own child), I can't shake the longing and missing of what never even existed. Whatever we had was a blip. An intense blip, but that's it.
But the thing is... I don't feel like it's a defense mechanism when I think about them. I really don't feel like that explanation fits for me. Because it doesn't take away any pain, it only causes it. It just feels lie a genuine compulsion - something along the lines of an obsessive compulsive disorder. Yes, I think of them when I'm lonely, but also when I'm in the company of others. And yes, I know this is deeply rooted to my relationship with my parents. But, this is the big stump - we only have so much control over an OCD. How much does an intellectual understanding help conquer it?
And it's all intertwined... because if its along the spectrum of an OCD, that's generally genetic. If we grew up with screwed up parents, they are usually screwed up from their childhoods... and being screwed up is usually linked to genetics. So, it's got to be the combination of both. One doesn't exist without the other. Genetics + dysfunctional childhood.
It seems like an insurmountable thing to get past...
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 15, 2014 3:06:14 GMT -8
Two things: sometimes we can intellectualize something too much. You have to get to a point in your life where, if you believe you have all the required info, then ACTION is the next step. And this is where most love addicts fail. They understand, like you, where their obsessions come from, why they do what they do and why it's wrong. They even know what to do to change their behavior. Yet, they don't. Action never takes place. And they remain trapped. In order to become a healthy person, we must act like one. And that means everything from changing repeat behavior and replacing it with healthier behavior, as well as changing repeat thoughts and replacing with healthier thoughts. This sounds ridiculous to someone who is obsessed. If I could change my thoughts don't you think I would? is what I always used to say. But then I learned that we DO have the power to change our thoughts, and it's easy and ultimately leads to a change in behavior. The hard part is continuing to support healthy thoughts and not let the obsessive ones slip back in through the cracks. It takes work. That's for sure.
Second, in your above post I see a lot of "helpless" language. As if love addiction is beyond your control. Take a look:
Felt like I could beat this thing. And I did, for a while. Until... the new POA waltzed into my life.
But, they did the dishonor of heavily flirting (while drunk) with me one night, and I knew right away that I was going to be heading downhill, fast.
I wish I never met them or got baited into falling for them to only be released back into the cold sea.
But what's done is done.
and even with this clear understanding... I can't shake the longing and missing of what never even existed.
we only have so much control over an OCD.
It seems like an insurmountable thing to get past...
This is how a "victim" thinks and it could be what's holding you back. Where is your responsibility in this? What part do you play in managing the people that come and go into your life. People don't just "waltz into" your life without your permission. People are not fish. We might get "baited" on occasion, but we have the brain to determine via cues, red flags, instinct and logic that we are being baited and we have the CHOICE to walk away, unhook ourselves and put our energy into something else.
Part of the OCD puzzle is this failure to recognize that we DO, in fact, have more control than we think over our obsessions. That we tend to obsess over things that we cannot have (take a look at your life and the people in it. How often do you obsess over people or things that are "freely" and easily yours? My guess is hardly ever.")
So, my suggestion to you is, stop reading and start to APPLY some of the things you've learned from these boards. Start to remove the "I was just standing there and cupid shot his bow" mentality. This works in movies and Greek myths. It does not work in real life. It's a child-like response to not taking responsibility for who comes into your life and who needs to get the boot. This type of action is your next step. Otherwise, you remain stuck.
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 15, 2014 9:12:31 GMT -8
To a love addict this sounds gloomy. Possibly even horrifying. To a healthy person this sounds NORMAL!!!!!
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Post by torchbreaker on Sept 16, 2014 9:16:51 GMT -8
I really appreciate the thought that you put into my post. And while I agree with you, I don't know how to apply what you are saying. Yes, I do have control over who comes into my life. And I allowed this person into my life because I was NOT ADDICTED to them. They were just a friend - there were no triggers. There were no red flags. I just thought they were nice. I didn't know them well enough - I don't get triggered by strangers, only by people once they are close to me. So, I didn't see it coming. When it did come - it was too late - I was hooked.
How could I have avoided this unless I just don't allow new people into my life?? 98% of people don't have this effect on me. Yes, I suppose that is helpless language and victim mentality, but that is what is true.
I did try to take a healthier step than I've ever taken before and after our last visit didn't go well, I said I was stepping away. I have never done that before. That was a huge step for me. But still, even though I technically walked away - I was hooked and obsessed over what happened and this has been almost 6 months ago. I took action and I'm still obsessed. So, yes I remain stuck.
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donc
New Member
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Post by donc on Sept 16, 2014 11:55:10 GMT -8
Torchbreaker Said:
I totally feel the same frustration!!! I have a very logical and intellectually inquisitive and complex mind. I've been educated in psychology and do alot of reading on my own on various topics we'd discuss here. Over the years, I would peel another layer off of the onion and uncover a new, deeper set of issues. I understand the roots of my issues, from avoidant, alcoholic mother to bullying in school, and a lack of self esteem, fear of abandonment,..etc, etc etc.
I'm stuck now, with all of this knowledge. It can be empowering at times; understanding what has contributed to my behavior and makeup in many ways can be helpful in some areas of my life (behavior modification). But when it comes to romantic love/coupling, I'm as distraught and helpless, obsessive and torchbearing as ever. If anything, sometimes I feel more broken when I comprehend "myself"..such a dirty past of problems and women whom I drained the energy and emotions from. I begin the self hate monologue...
I read so many posts about LAs putting up with less than they deserve. I have a good heart..I truly do. But I have been that "less than deserved" piece. I hurt a great person whom I loved, with betrayals and unhealthy behaviors. Its hard to say I deserve more and to love myself, when I lost a truly amazing person (seriously, anyone that meets her wants to be her best friend..im not even exaggerating). How do I love myself when 99% of the reason I'm not married to the woman I love is because I broke her trust and heart with behaviors that didn't reflect how I feel about her? I baffle myself, as well as both of our families..
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donc
New Member
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Post by donc on Sept 16, 2014 12:06:12 GMT -8
Paisley mentioned obsessive thoughts when first liking someone...I'm at a point where I almost feel relief when I DON'T get all googly eyed and thinking about someone...it feels sturdier and like Im not drowning in potential happiness...or sadness.
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 16, 2014 17:04:36 GMT -8
How could I have avoided this unless I just don't allow new people into my life?? 98% of people don't have this effect on me. Yes, I suppose that is helpless language and victim mentality, but that is what is true. ] It's hard, I know. I was unable to figure it out for a very long time myself. But one of the best things I ever learned to do to take healthier steps was to not allow myself to get emotionally attached or "fall" too fast for people. As soon as I noticed myself falling, fantasizing or feeling desperate I pulled WAY back and focused on my own life as if it nothing had changed and no one new had popped into my life. This seems like either an impossibly to a love addict, or some wacky turn on for the uber disciplined. But it is neither. It is a healthy response coming from someone who wants to protect their heart and will not just throw it away on anyone, until they can trust. And getting to know someone, and trust someone takes months, if not years. What is reasonable? I don't know. And I don't know how fast you fell for this guy. But anything under 6 months is not appropriate for someone with love addict tendencies. We need to pull back and not dive in. It takes enormous control, but if you have a goal and if you apply MEANING to your actions then it's not as hard as you think. Does this make sense?
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Post by torchbreaker on Sept 17, 2014 15:49:16 GMT -8
yes, it does make sense. Unfortunately, I'm just not sure how applicable it is/was in my particular situation. I feel like it's getting overly self-indulgent to write out what those specifics are, I'll just say that when I fell, it was after a period of months of knowing them and feeling neutral. The 'falling' felt like a flip of a switch (not necessarily the case in past situations where it may have been more gradual). Once turned on, there was NO going back - even though I physically was away from this person literally the day after the switch flipped. I had no idea if I would even ever see them again (they live out of the country)... when a couple of weeks later, they decided they'd travel to my neck of the woods 2 months later. So, yes - knowing I would see them again intensified it, but didn't cause it. And now... I doubt I'll ever see them again - yet the obsession lingers. That's the torchbearing part.
Whenever time runs its course on this POA (which if sticking to my pattern, won't be for another long 18 to 24 months, though I'm aiming to cut down that time)... I hope I can apply your advice to the next potential source and nip that in the bud .
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Post by SandyLove on Sept 18, 2014 16:38:04 GMT -8
On the subject of torchbearing, I have just spent about 2 weeks of no contact with my most recent PoA, who was however mainly a relationship of emotional dependency and romantic obsession that consisted of me keeping contact with him via email for 2 years after he essentially ended relationship/contact. Now after 2 weeks of not sending him any more emails, he has receded in my mind and I do not think about him much as much. I do still think of him sometimes, but way less. But the PoA that preceded him is now back in my mind. That was a far more serious, real relationship that lasted 1.5 years and ended four years ago. But I had thought I was mostly over him and the newer PoA had replaced him. Now that the newer PoA is gone, the older one is on my mind all the time. Agh!!!!!
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