|
Post by tizzy on Jun 8, 2011 6:43:27 GMT -8
I've been thinking about this thread lately. I'm very fluid in my HP beliefs as well. It's very much a learning experience for me. I enjoy learning about different spiritualities and religions, and find that I'm able to take something from each of them to help me cope with, live, and get through my daily life. I love the Buddhist principles of cause and effect and the universe. That what you put out is what you get back. The belief in personal accountability in life. I like the peace that comes from chanting and meditation. That's been especially useful to me during my recovery.
I also like things I've learned from yoga, Christianity (in which I was raised), and many of the "earthy" religions that focus on how everything in the Universe and Earth is inter-related. I find that I align with those belief systems more readily than religions that focus on beings I have no evidence of or that punish and destroy. I don't take any comfort in all-powerful beings that would want to hurt me. I'm not atheist. I'm probably more of an agnostic.
So my HP during my recovery has pretty much been accepting that there is a Universal knowledge/Conscious/Energy that is greater than myself and that I can rely on for conscious guidance, forgiveness, acceptance and love. I can't explain it, and I feel no need to try. It's just something I know I can rely on to get me through the day to day and to help me be the best person I know how to be every day.
|
|
|
Post by tizzy on Jun 8, 2011 6:47:35 GMT -8
Count me in with those who draw on the power of deceased love ones! I find myself often thinking of them, not in an i-miss-you-loads type of way (which I do) but moreso in a give-me-strength type of way. I think about what they would've done, or how they would've approached something. Or I think about the love they gave me when alive, and that helps me get through my days. Thinking about the deceased is a source of comfort and strength and part of my HP. I can still feel their energy in my life as well.
|
|
|
Post by LovelyJune on Jun 8, 2011 15:50:37 GMT -8
As Gandhi once said, "God is Truth." I think that's broad enough of an umbrella to cover us all.
|
|
|
Post by dorkestbeforedawn on Jun 8, 2011 18:32:35 GMT -8
As Gandhi once said, "God is Truth." I think that's broad enough of an umbrella to cover us all. You may have something, there...if anything will get me out of this funk, it'll be facing reality...
|
|
|
Post by mgb on Jun 9, 2011 6:34:35 GMT -8
Oh Great Spirit Whose voice I hear on the wind And whose breath gives life to All the Earth Hear Me I am one of your children I need your guidance and support I love this prayer! Ty Leebriar. I love this Thread! Ty Happy berry. I wear a necklace around my neck my best mate gave to me it says God is Love............ so I thinK thats what I believe, not very appropriate for an LA, nonetheless, to me it is a mother/father aspect of love, of purity and flow. I believe and that everything is connected in the universe and equally loved. mgb.
|
|
littlenemo
Junior Member
This is who I was. This is who I can be again. But with less hair and more clothes.
Posts: 71
|
Post by littlenemo on Jan 15, 2012 16:54:35 GMT -8
I have just signed up for this group. I am an Ambivalent Love Addict of the subtype "Romance Addict." I also happen to be atheist. So when I came here in search of help, I was hugely disappointed by the "spirituality/god" aspect. You might as well hang a sign on the front door: "NON-THEISTS NOT WELCOME (P.S.: BURN IN HELL)"
I'm an American who grew up in a very religious (Christian, protestant, evangelical but not conservative) family. I realized I was an atheist at about the age of 13, though I was closeted until very recently. I know the Bible better than most self-described Christians, but I also know the Four noble Truths, and the difference between a Shia and a Sunni. And unlike most self-described Christians, I can actually tell you what happened at the First Council of Nicaea, and what a Copt is. But I am an atheist. Most religious people see that as a "lack," as a hole that needs filling. I may have plenty of holes, but none are "god-shaped," thank you.
I don't believe that non-theistic love addicts should have to "go along" with the spiritual aspect in order to get the help and support we need as much as anyone else. (I was sad to find several posts by atheists who are trying to make themselves into theists in order to fit in here. No one should have to do that.) And frankly, it's puzzling to me that Susan should have included the "god" aspect as an essential component of LAA (assuming it was Susan--I have only just begun to read her book). I understand that religion is important to the religious (duh), and that therefore religion would be important to their recovery. But the assumption that recovery is only possible through god not only makes no sense, it is deeply offensive. It says to the ever increasing number of non-theists in the world, "Too bad about your love addiction, but you're beyond help unless you allow yourself to be converted, preferably to MY religion. (P.S.: Burn in hell.)"
I get the impression that LAA is small enough as it is. Why it would constrain itself even further by making non-theists persona non grata is beyond me. (I would note that there are A.A. groups specifically for atheists/agnostics all over the place.) And it also make me feel despondent about the prospects of finding a support group that suits my naturalistic world view.
I cannot express how disappointed I am to have found what I hoped would be help and support, only to find that I will not be welcome or comfortable here.
As for brooklynberry's original question, I feel it's loaded. It seems rooted in the assumption that a "higher power" of some kind is necessary. Again, it feels like a case of non-theists trying to force their own round pegs into the square hole of LAA's "god requirement." It's sad. We get our strength where we can. Sometimes we can find it in ourselves, but if we could do that all the time, well, we wouldn't be here, would we? Obviously, we need to lean on others. I will take a flesh-and-blood friend over an invisible, silent white guy with a white beard any day.
If I sound angry, it's only because I am. I am not by nature an angry person. I'm a friendly, loving, supportive person. But coming here and digging around, only to find god, god, god, has frankly angered me.
|
|
|
Post by addicted on Jan 15, 2012 18:09:32 GMT -8
I am sorry that you are so angry and upset. I myself am Jewish and I use the term God but what I mean is "energy" or something of that sort. I don't ascribe to any Biblical God or story. When I first entered a 12 step room and heard higher power already in step two I was disheartened. How was I ever going to make progress with the God thing in there?? I felt similarly to you. So I started with the idea of nature and/or gravity. I see the power of it though I can't "SEE" it or understand it. I learned to overlook the usage of the word God-I just let it stand as meaning whatever the person wants it to mean. I think I try to say higher power whenever possible but even THAT can irritate people. I don't think one can work a 12 step program without SOME sort of belief in SOMETHING -but it can be anything even if the word God is used.
|
|
littlenemo
Junior Member
This is who I was. This is who I can be again. But with less hair and more clothes.
Posts: 71
|
Post by littlenemo on Jan 15, 2012 18:17:56 GMT -8
Thank you, addicted. And I'm sorry for spewing anger where it doesn't belong. I think I need to, for the moment anyway, look beyond the "god" references, dig around more, and see if LAA could work for me. Your story is helpful to me. Thanks again.
|
|
littlenemo
Junior Member
This is who I was. This is who I can be again. But with less hair and more clothes.
Posts: 71
|
Post by littlenemo on Jan 16, 2012 0:34:08 GMT -8
Okay, I just read Susan's "Alternative Steps," and I must say that made me feel much better about this issue.
|
|
|
Post by leadbelly on Jan 16, 2012 4:04:41 GMT -8
Littlenemo.....it's gunna' be ok....just start postin'....the beauty, the profound beauty here, is that no one can point a finger. At last!!! gotta love that. God or not, it works.
|
|
|
Post by Loving My Life on Jan 16, 2012 4:34:42 GMT -8
littlenemo welcome, thank you for sharing your story with us. You can have your own God, it is not a requirement to believe in God in order to recover. Just believe in something. Also Susan does phone counseling, you can send her a personal msg PM, it is under "admin". We are all glad you are here, and you will find alot of knowledge & support here, keep an open mind, take what you need and leave the rest. Your recovery is what is important. Again we are all glad your here. Keep coming back.
|
|
littlenemo
Junior Member
This is who I was. This is who I can be again. But with less hair and more clothes.
Posts: 71
|
Post by littlenemo on Jan 16, 2012 6:06:44 GMT -8
Thank you, leadbelly and carolyn. I feel kind of silly now having gotten all worked up about what is apparently a non-problem, but now I have insights I didn't have before, so it's all good, I suppose.
|
|
|
Post by dharmagirl on Jan 16, 2012 16:36:52 GMT -8
Awesome post! I have had so many conversations with new 12-Step members who struggle with the "Higher Power thing." To them I say, "Don't let a little thing like God get in the way of your recovery!" And it IS essential to embrace a power greater than ourselves in order truly surrender our addictions.
To anyone struggling with defining your HP, would also recommend a book called "Recovery- The Sacred Art" by Rabbi Rami Shapiro. He weaves all major spiritual practices into a beautiful interpretation of the 12-Steps.
Gordana you express a lot of my sentiment at this point in my journey. God as I understand him/her/it will continue to change and grow and evolve as I do. I was raised Catholic and have a lot of respect for Jesus' teachings, but can't quite go there for myself now. For many reasons Buddhism has been a wonderful Spiritual practice for me, and through it I was able to embrace the 12-steps and the sense that there has to be a Source of Love and Compassion in this world. I believe that this Source (God for lack of a better name) is within us all when we are living up to our most genuine, loving, compassionate selves. My codependency and love addiction separated me from this Source. It was only when truly admitting that I was not in control of my life, that I could appreciate there is a wonderful, benevolent force that provides all good things to me. I honestly don't know how I could have traveled the journey I have and ended up here if not for a Power Greater than myself! Left to my own devices, I was a mess. I loved reading all the replies to this post! The very answering of such a query helps me strengthen my faith in my convictions and my personal beliefs. This has been essential to my recovery. I was not able to truly begin recovery until I accepted a sense of spiritual maturity and laid claim to the God Of My Understanding. Thank you all for sharing!
PS: LovelyJune, thanks for mentioning Thich Nhat Hanh! He provides a beautiful bridge of understanding between deists and Buddhism. I heard him speak last fall and he said (essentially), "God is Compassion, Love and Understanding." Amen!
|
|
|
Post by bklynrn on Jan 17, 2012 4:37:20 GMT -8
littlenemo....I'm also an Ambivilant LA..my mind operates more from a male perspective in so many ways. I feel what your saying and was in the same place a year ago. Feel what you feel and stay with it. If it's meant for you to find a HP or a more spiritual path in recovery then it will be. Can I say this though?...stay open minded to what you hear and if it pisses you off then that's ok too.That's how I felt for a while.... You don't have to believe in anything to be a part of this process of recovery. I also felt angry and even rejected or somehow like I don't belong if I dont believe in a God/HP....Not so!!...Stay with the process and see what it brings you
|
|
|
Post by Little Fox on Dec 2, 2013 3:24:32 GMT -8
I am probably the only pagan doing this. But I have been so solid in my spirituality over the last 24 or so years that I am not bothered with christianity. It can be annoying when people are obtrusive and pushy, but they usually give up on me quickly when I make clear that I don't want to be "saved". My soul's just fine. I am not very practical in my beliefs as I don't believe that the gods or spirits require much human attention in order for nature to run its course. Spirituality is a very intimate and personal relationship between me and the divine. And so, I may sometimes talk about it, answer questions, guide people who ask guidance from me - but I don't necessarily feel the need to be guided, lectured or approved in any way. Now the "problem" with paganism (and my kind of paganism in particular) is that it is not compatible with the thought of giving yourself into the hands of a greater power. Being entirely responsible for your own wellbeing, health, success and happiness is part of what I believe. The gods don't fix my problems for me. They don't create my problems either. They do their thing, I do mine. I never had the feeling that I should ask the gods for help. They are just there - but not at my service. So when I connect with the divine, I choose a form (a "god", if you will) and I meditate with it. I feel it, let it permeate me and everything in me that needs to be changed, will be changed. It is very hard to explain. If my spirituality needed a name, I would call it "nordic shamanic druidry". I feel very drawn to the celtic and nordic gods, especially Odin and Morrighan. Both Morrighan and Odin deal with war, loss and letting go of everything that is not needed. Morrighan is sometimes perceived as aggressive and almost toxic, but that's not how I see her. She is the uncomfortable truth we need to face before we can heal. So looking at all of this, I do believe my spirituality is somehow going to be helpful. Even if I'm definitely not the "love and light" kind of spiritual person.
|
|
|
Post by TheVeryQuietCricket on Mar 28, 2014 18:17:15 GMT -8
I struggle spiritually but if anyone knows any aliens, that would be superb. Thanks in advance?
|
|
|
Post by xresilientgirlx on Apr 11, 2014 22:52:42 GMT -8
I am a Pagan. I have studied Native American Traditions, Celtic Traditions, Shamanism, Druidry, Wicca, Witchcraft, Buddhism, the Fairy Faith, and Kemeticism (based off ancient Egyptian practices). I also have experience with the paranormal and am psychic. I am very eclectic and each one of these pursuits has colored my spiritual practices. I'm currently learning about Druidry and Kemetic practices. For the Egyptian beliefs I feel closest to Isis. But I also being in the Great Spirit from Native American practices. As for the Druidry, I'm close to Cernunnos or the Green Man. I have a strong belief in Fairies as Nature Spirits.
|
|
|
Post by loveellen on Jan 10, 2015 18:30:06 GMT -8
i think my HP is not relate to any religion. my HP is just" Spirit "" soul" " a power greater than me"" unconditional love" these are all enough.. i think religion, is about some smart human being found their HP then writen dowm their understandings of their HP.. these leads to religion.. some wisdiom one has super good heart, then tell the truth, don't totally trust me look at me as HP. some wisdom but very selfish person put the power into their own..want others to folllow them.. to like many famous governor or celebriy and idol
|
|
|
Post by terryt on Jan 22, 2015 16:50:38 GMT -8
I agree with melsoul. My clear picture of my HP is still evolving.
For most of my life, religion and the idea of a HP baffled me. I was baptized and raised in a Catholic family. My Moms family had very strong Irish Catholic roots and we were to strictly abide by them.....well in my very early years at least, from what I can remember. When my Mom broke free of a very dangerous violent alcoholic man (my father), she slowly relaxed the Catholic rules and we (myself and my 5 siblings ) were free to live our lives as we saw fit. Still as I grew up, the early teachings of the Catholic Church stayed very deep in my psyche. As a teen, I was rebellious and angry. I was angry with the Church for chastising my Mom for leaving a very terrible situation. I was angry that there wasn't more support for single women ( this was in the 1970s) who needed help and weren't afraid to work hard to help themselves. I was just angry period, for many, many reasons.
The Church and religion in general were always present in my mind and always baffling. I felt I was missing something in my life by not attending Church and by not having an affiliation with any one sort of Church establishment.
So, in a quest to end the confusion, I set out to educate myself about different Churches and religion in general. I spent time with the Evangels, the Baptists, the Christians, the Catholics.....all of them very much the same as far as I was concerned....pray, pray pray.....and then pray some more. Be nice, be kind, be good, and smile so much that your cheeks hurt. Make friends with everyone....especially if it means they will patronize your place of business....and then smile some more. Oh ya....don't forget to wear really nice clothes.
I know that sounds very patronizing and degrading....but that is truly what I felt every time I went to a Church. To most of them anyway. There was at least one or two that I felt comfortable with but none of them ever really stuck with me.......or me with them I should say.
I have found a little place of refuge though....in my search for my HP. It has been through the practice of Yoga that I have found peace and I have found myself....my true self. My True Self....my Light and my Soul. It was always there. That's "what" I felt when I thought that I was missing something in my life. The messages, the thoughts, the ideas, the little surprises that would appear in such strangely coincidental ways. At least that's my own way of deciphering it all....the messages.....from "out there"
If I let myself , I get a bit freaked out by it all. But I know its not freaky...it just is. Its where we all began.
|
|