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Post by Susan Peabody on Sept 10, 2008 14:05:01 GMT -8
What do I have to say to my clients who are in a triangle?
Recovery is monogamy so I ask them to either focus on improving their marriage, with the help of Harville Hendrix, or get a divorce and pursue their new love. What is wrong is to try to hold on to both. Triangles are about avoiding intimacy through monogamy and more and more people are using a triangle to alleviate boredom and the hard work of making a relationship work or the hard work of ending a bad marriage.
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Post by Victorious on Mar 12, 2009 18:05:56 GMT -8
My experience in a triangle is little different than the reasons that Susan describes.
I married a great guy and we have an intimacy beyond anything I could imagine, thanks to us both having taken Harville Hendrix' workshop. I am not bored or unhappy with him.
I just miss my SW ex-BF. I ended it, not because he was a bad guy, but because he couldn't give me what I wanted - a committment.
Since I couldn't see him anymore after I married, I would fantasize about the good times we had together. I thought it would make me feel better but it just made it worse. I didn't have much contact with him but I finally realized, after learning that I'm a LA, that I have to stop ALL contact.
Its been 3 weeks since I've had any contact with my POA (we emailed occasionally). I avoid listening to love songs and no more fantasizing. It hasn't been too hard until now. I dreamt I went to his house two nights ago. It felt so real. Now the ache of missing him is back.
I don't understand why being happily married isn't enough to stop me from missing him so much and I feel kinda like a bad relationship addict now that I read that I'm supposed to be unhappily married to justify why I still think about my POA.
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Post by lotus on Jul 21, 2009 22:24:34 GMT -8
I can relate to what you are saying...I feel like I've had a happy, close, intimate marraige too, yet I constantly fall for other guys. It makes me realize that there are some really deep issues in me and that I have to admit that subconsciously there is something inside me that fears full intimacy with my husband. If that weren't true, I wouldn't do what I do.
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Post by Lover2009 on Sept 29, 2009 3:23:41 GMT -8
So today i woke up and ,after 6 days of no contact, i checked my phone and i had a missed call from my POA(married guy). He just got back into town. He lives alone here. His family lives in another state. He has been working the 12 steps program for SLAA and I have been going to CODA and LAA meetings. We are both in recovery.
You know one thing that battles me, its that I have never felt as connected, as in love, as pleased in an emotional, physical, mental way with anybody else except for this man. Yet, he is the unhealthiest relationship I could ever have because he's unavailable.
it is almost like since i cant have him, i want him the most, i like the most, i desire him the most. But i do know that we are both unhealthly people...for me to jump from a codependent relationship to a love triangle, its very unhealthy. For him to be married and end up in a affair, says he unhealthy too.
So im trying to be strong, let the theories of truth sink in and practice self love and take care of myself and let him go and hope that he does the same.
One thing I have found hard to do, its to not think about the future because I catch myself thinking "well, we will go thru recovery...maybe then, we will be together" But thats not letting go and I obssess and withdraw...it is tough...we cant help to see each other or to at least aknowledge our presences because our offices are a few doors away from each other so like yesterday...i knew he was back into town because i saw his car parked in the parking lot so you know...trying to get someone out of your head like that isnt easy to do but i was calmed and didnt write him or call him...nothing...but at night, he called me...i was sleeping already...but woke up today and been sitting with my computer all morning talking about us and him...i hope God gives him the strenght to keep away from me...I ask God to help me, to help him...to understand, to be content with the fact that we are doing whats right for us even if we wish we didnt have to...i will keep my recovery posted!!!
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Post by Angel on Sept 29, 2009 6:40:03 GMT -8
I have never been involved with someone else while being in a relationship but I have been in a relationship many times with someone who had someone on the side.
So what I am saying is that I was never the doer, I was the one being done by. I frequently turned a blind eye and was fearful of saying anything cos I was scared of the consequences. This happened to me several times. I never put my foot down or made it explicit at the start of the relationship that monogamy was what I wanted cos to tell the truth I am not sure that I WANTED that level of commitment and intimacy. Maybe there was something in me that wanted to play the victim and have what I would call a 'get out of jail card' so I could do a bolt and not be seen the bad guy.
A Chinese girlfriend said to me once that letting your husband have affairs and turning a blind eye to them was like money in the bank. You could cash it for hard currency if you wanted to or you could use it to validate what you did on the side without feeling guilty. I heard the same thing from some gfs in Oz who when I told them of suspicions of my husband said that now 'you are free to do what you like too!"
This isn't healthy I know but I just thought that I would add my thoughts to this. I am not saying that I am superior I just am saying that I think that a lot of people particularly women may have more than one reason when they suspect for not doing/saying anything when there is a love triangle.
In fact I am hoping that my next relationship is healthy and that there is monogamy because I will confess here and now, I feel as if I found out that there was a chance that he played around on me, then I would use it as my excuse to run away again. As an ambivilent love addict who is scared of true intimacy this is just reinforcing my addiction pattern of victimisation. There is a part of me that seeks this sort of drama and wants to use it as another excuse to run away!
Again and again and again!
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Post by geedee on Oct 15, 2009 9:45:31 GMT -8
sorry about that. i dont believe I ever really was in a triangle. not true. it ended up as one or actually 2 but didnt start that way. I think I detached from my husband when he was diagnosed with a brain tumour. thought he was going to die, so emotionally i was preparing myself for being alone. when my POA appeared he was in a dead marriage as far as I was concerned. my guilt towards my husband tho made me crack up just about every month but my narcissistic POA would hurt me so much becuse I was abandoning him I just couldnt keep away. he was a seductive witholder and I'm a love addict and I was manipulated. hmmm...I let him manipulate me to be honest. he talked me into believing that there was nothing wrong with what we were doing and that i should stop beating myself up about it but I knew deep down that it was wrong . it was just convenient for me to believe him cos the highs were so amazing. the real turning point was when he started patching things up with his wife. not only did I start feeling guilty towards my husband but i felt sorry for his wife too. what a mess. I'm glad it's over. life is complicated enough with one partner to deal with. I've been with my husband for 25 years. my one and only until last October when for the first time I cheated on him with my POA. and I thought my life was boring before I got into all of this. 'you live , you learn' Alanis Morrissette 'jagged little pill'
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Post by lotus on Oct 25, 2009 15:49:34 GMT -8
What I've learned about triangles: You don't have a good grip on your feelings while in a triangle. When I was falling for my last POA and he wanted me to leave my husband, I was torn. I didn't know how I felt about my husband or POA and was trying to decide who to be with.
I realize now that I was emotionally incapable of making a real decision at the time.
Now that I've been away from POA for a while and concentrating on my marraige, I've never loved my husband more and do not have any significant doubts. The triangle itself was clouding my mind.
ONE PERSON DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH EMOTIONAL ENERGY FOR MORE THAN ONE PERSON AT A TIME
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Post by artgirl on Nov 28, 2014 22:01:51 GMT -8
I hope someone will read this and reply. I really need support. I got married over 20 years ago to a guy I though was nice and stable, but I didn't really love him. I still don't think he is right for me, but I am still here. I thought I stayed for the kids, but now the kids are grown (although one is living at home again). Over the years, I have had a number of relationships, the last one was very serious, but has ended after 7 years. The guy who is about 15 years older than me is married, too but he told his wife he wanted a divorce and she left the country to pursue other interests. They are still not divorced, and he wouldn't commit to when he would actually divorce. In any event, I caught him in several significant lies over the years and he always glosses over them, and thinks they are not big deal. We had agreed that I would get divorced after the holidays and move in together. But about a month ago, he started a fight with me on purpose, and we have not spoken since. I think that he enjoys the thrill of being single since his wife left the country. I am devastated. I know there were many bad things about the relationship, but I still feel terrible. My future was planned around him and he was part of my every day life. So, here I am, in my unfulfilling marriage, and I am scared. I am scared to leave. I am scared of being alone and I am afraid that nobody else will want me. I don't know what to do. I am in so much pain and feel like I am barely hanging on. Please, if anyone has any advice, I would really appreciate it. I feel so alone in this.
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Post by CodepNomore on Nov 29, 2014 1:52:28 GMT -8
Welcome artgirl, It's good that you come here for advice and support. Sorry about the pain you are experiencing but such painful consequence can also lead to great realization and complete turn around. "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." So let's start with the hard facts (though it may be painful to hear them)... You and this man are one and the same in the sense that you are both married and having extra-marital affairs. It does not matter if you have different reasons/excuses for having a triangle relationship. Whether he enjoys it, his wife is away, he promises/plans to divorce her, so on and so forth. While you have your own reasons/excuses too, such as not really loving your husband, being an "unfulfilled wife", etc. The point is you are still both married while having this 'relationship'. Period. Now, let us move on to your standard and expectation. Your standard is based on a fantasy mindset. You are expecting someone who is having an affair like you and with you, to 'honor' his words to you, to be 'truthful' to you, and so on. (But how about you dishonoring your husband and him betraying his wife too?) It is like making an investment with a fake dollar bill and expecting to earn a good, real profit from it. However, only good seed can produce good fruit. Bad seed always produced bad fruit. There is no any other way around it. That is the Law of sowing and reaping. So since a triangle relationship is like a noxious weed community, you either eradicate it and save the other plants or keep it until it destroys the other crops too. What would it be for you? Only you can answer that for you. As for me, I will not use other people to hide my insecurities or fears. I will face my issues now. Just work on myself first. Completely remove out of my life a POA/Triangle qualifier. Then when I have stabilized my emotions, I will decide whether to stay in that marriage or get a divorce. But seek recovery first before starting another relationship or else it will be just another fantasy-based, toxic relationship. Be well first and foremost. There is hope for you. You can still heal and recover. Coming here is a good start. We understand you and are here to support your recovery. |
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Post by Havefaith on Nov 29, 2014 16:52:43 GMT -8
You asked for advice, artgirl. My advice is to listen to codepnomore's words above. I could not have said (written) it any better.
As love addicts, we get caught up in feelings and affairs that are based on fantasy, not reality. Until, as codep says, you have 'stabilized your emotions', I can guarantee that decisions made will be devastating -- because they are based on fantasy, not reality.
My experience (in the proverbial nutshell) -- I almost left my spouse for a POA.
Husband -- emotionally healthy, supportive, great (and generous) financial provider, strong moral compass, helps others at the drop of a hat, keeps himself in great physical condition, is always willing to talk things out, loving husband and father, and, in turn, is loved by family and friends. He is in every sense of the word, a great guy.
POA -- sex addict (in recovery), recovering alcoholic (goes to AA), cross-addicted into gambling (currently in $60,000 debt and continues to frequent casinos), therefore broke financially, in poor physical condition, isolates himself, emotionally distant, moody, bordering on pedophilia -- you get the picture. He has got some heavy duty issues he is dealing with. One could say he's a hot mess.
So, what was the initial attraction? It goes back to my chaotic upbringing (won't get into it, but I am in intense psychodynamic therapy) and the fact that he presented himself as the classic 'bad boy'. He fueled my adolescent fantasies and love addictive tendencies, and I fell for him (obsessively so). Only until I 'stabilized my emotions' could I see the reality of the situation and avoid making a wretched decision (i.e., leave everything behind to take off with a man who has admitted he cannot sustain a healthy, long-term relationship with a woman). And for me, part of 'stabilizing my emotions' meant starting to think and act like an adult -- I was developmentally delayed (trapped in an adolescent mindset) and my decisions/choices were akin to those of a 15 year old girl (still working on this via therapy). I can tell you this -- 15 year olds do not make adult-driven, healthy and mature choices!
I can't tell you whether or not you should stay with your spouse, but I can tell you this for sure -- one cannot make an informed decision about a serious matter such as this, if one is in the throes of addictive, obsessive, compulsive thinking. And, finally -- you are NOT alone. Many of us have gone through situations similar to yours, and I am one of them.
Blessings,
HaveFaith
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Post by artgirl on Nov 29, 2014 21:22:57 GMT -8
Thank you for the words of advice and encouragement. I know you are both right. I have felt so much shame and self-loathing over the relationship with the POA that might self-esteem is really low. I have broken it off with him before, but this time have gone a month with no contact (a new record). While it is painful, I also feel relief and a little better about myself. I am starting therapy on Tuesday to get some help with all of these issues. I know I have to heal before I can make any decisions about my husband because I just feel too messed up right now. I appreciate knowing that others have been where I am and were able to recover. It gives me hope and I don't feel so alone.
Something I don't understand is that my relationship with the POA caused me pain almost every single day. Although he was nice to me in many ways, almost every day something would happen or I would know he was lying and I felt terrible. With that being the case, why am I so miserable now without him? I know it was a very unhealthy relationship, and I knew it was bad for me in many ways. I just want to be an honest healthy person, and be able to make choices that are healthy for me.
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Post by Loveanimals on Nov 29, 2014 23:23:14 GMT -8
Most affairs don't end up in successful 2nd marriages, because of the lack of trust and also once the sneaking around goes away and reality sinks in, the person is no longer as appealing.
I remember a man tempting me, and I said to him "if I cheated on my man with you, then would you really trust me if we were in a relationship?" Of course he wasn't thinking about this, as he was thinking from an "she's unavailable" perspective and looking for a sexual conquest. And thankfully I had the ability to think about what he was doing rationally, vs. the love addiction "oh he's going to save me and make me feel in love etc etc".......
Unavailable people are more attractive because they are unavailable.........just like treats like cake and ice cream are more attractive when we watch what we eat!
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Post by CodepNomore on Nov 30, 2014 4:08:35 GMT -8
Something I don't understand is that my relationship with the POA caused me pain almost every single day. Although he was nice to me in many ways, almost every day something would happen or I would know he was lying and I felt terrible. With that being the case, why am I so miserable now without him? I know it was a very unhealthy relationship, and I knew it was bad for me in many ways. I just want to be an honest healthy person, and be able to make choices that are healthy for me. " There is no peace for the wicked" and that includes any relationship that is contrary to what is lawful. That is why we are given laws to follow or observe. So going against the natural law of the universe and human relations, hurt and destroy us only. Addiction is what causes you to feel miserable without him. Just like a drug user without his/her drug. Why invest on a fake dollar bill? What do you expect from someone who is having an extra-marital relationship with you? Honesty? It cannot happen. No way. That is the Law of Cause and Effect and of the Law of Sowing and Reaping for those in a triangle relationship. Dishonesty multiplies a hundredfold! It won't stop unless you remove it completely out of your life. If you truly want to heal and recover, focus on you and do "No Contact" with him. |
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Post by CodepNomore on Dec 16, 2014 3:12:31 GMT -8
If anyone of you is in a relationship already, please stop flirting with someone else. And stop using the word "friend" to cover-up your flirtation or triangle. There is no excuse for cheating. Period.
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Post by lex0788 on Sept 28, 2019 7:36:42 GMT -8
Hi there, I’ve tried to post on this forum before but not sure if it worked or will work now but here it goes. I’ve ended an affair (been about 6 weeks no contact - I’ve blocked the PoA from contacting me in any way), but I am still really struggling. I feel my PoA has probably moved on and it kills me to know that. I am married to the most incredible man, but I get stuck in my head sometimes and start longing for my PoA and comparing him to my husband and getting frustrated with myself for doing that - it’s all a big mess. I just want to move on and be happy. Will things get better? How long does recovery take ? When will my addictive mind calm and stop making me think I’m in the wrong relationship because I don’t have the new love high anymore. Some days are just so hard and I fantasize about contacting my PoA again... I know I won’t, but I just want to let go and stop suffering. Any advice or insight is welcome. Thanks  |
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RoseNadler
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Post by RoseNadler on Sept 28, 2019 9:48:03 GMT -8
You are in the right place, and you’re doing the right things. No contact with the POA is the most important thing. And it sounds like you are aware of the difference between real love, and getting high off early-relationship feelings.
It is not easy, but IMHO, the recovery program is worth it for the peace of mind.
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Post by Sexlessw on Sept 29, 2019 4:41:52 GMT -8
Lex0788:
Hello. Here's my take. Good on you for going NC.
EMAs are the crack high to end all crack highs. Their endings will cause you grief. You are in withdrawal mode right now. Your xPoA was an enhancement to your marriage, not a fix or a replacement for your husband. All of those bonding chemicals - PEA, Oxytocin - your brain released are now ebbing. You are no longer able to get your "fix" of the PoA, hence the pain of withdrawal.
Your PoA and husband are two separate people. Don't beat yourself up for straying - your PoA offered you something - whether it be attention, sexual gratification, a bit of understanding - that was lacking in your life at this time. Think of him/her as a release - and a relationship that has run its course.
Things will get better, but before they do, you do hard, introspective work. What attracted you to the PoA? What did you get out of the EMA? What were the good parts? What were the bad parts? Was the "bad" list longer than the "good" list? Many points to ponder.
The most important relationship you have is with yourself. If you aren't okay with yourself and your actions, you can't expect ANYBODY to be in a fully loving relationship with you. They cannot "fix" you - nor can you "fix" them.
How long does recovery take? For myself, it took a LONG TIME. Two EMAs and 18 years of figuring my stuff out. YMMV, of course. Others MMV.
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Post by Havefaith on Sept 29, 2019 14:11:31 GMT -8
The « new love high » never lasts. Never. Ever. With anyone. Ever. It is a lie. The first high is new and hits the pleasure center of the brain like a bomb. After that — you are chasing the high that can never be replicated. Ask any heroin addict. Ask any alcoholic. Ask any love addict.
HaveFaith
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Post by Havefaith on Sept 29, 2019 14:17:03 GMT -8
This is from a former post of mine, and I think it may help --
"Having an affair is a lot different than being married. It’s a distinction too few cheaters recognize so long as the “anesthesia” of infatuation, novelty, and illicitness is still numbing the partners to the realities of committed couples. When the anesthesia wears off – and it always does – the realities of setting up a household together; balancing career, finances, and romance; seeing one another unkempt; and watching each other with runny noses, rashes, or an upset stomach, often yield to the searing pain of regret.Too many men and women who cheat on their partners mistake hormonal honeymoons for relationship reality. The even bigger mistake is that many cheaters leave their spouses and partner ... chasing an illusion that very few will ever catch.
This is something I posted awhile ago, from an article I read, when I was considering leaving my spouse for my PoA with whom I was obsessed. It hit me square between the eyes. PoA (I can happily say ex-PoA!) was (and probably still is) a sex/porn addict, in $60,000 gambling debt, recovering alcoholic who finds his partners in AA or SLAA meetings (which is where we met). He was a charming narcissist who knew how to attract women. And I fell right into his trap, because I was a hardcore Love Addict, obsessively seeking romance, fantasy and some happily ever fairy tale life that DOES NOT EXIST.
I have been in intense therapy to work through my severe case of arrested development, and I thank my therapist (and HP) every day that I came off that self-destructive path of addiction.
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Post by Sexlessw on Sept 30, 2019 4:02:56 GMT -8
HaveFaith:
Oh yeah - the xPoA. I forgot what intense issues he had.
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Post by Havefaith on Sept 30, 2019 14:53:14 GMT -8
Yes, and I thought I loooooved him, Sort of like the drug addict loves heroin. Chasing the high, and never quite getting there. Trying desperately to recapture the allure.
Addiction. It. Is. A. Lie.
HaveFaith
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Post by Havefaith on Sept 30, 2019 15:34:59 GMT -8
“I am married to the most incredible man“
Generally I do not give advice. I pretty much stick to sharing my ‘experience, strength and hope’ with fellow recovering addicts. But I will give this small snippet of advice — if you ever decide to pursue a relationship with a PoA — let your current partner know. DO NOT go behind anybody’s back. Ever. It is a betrayal of the darkest kind. Let him/her know you are thinking of someone else. Let him/her make a decision as to whether or not they need to walk away from you as you are going through your dilemma.
Be honest with people. With partners. Please.
HaveFaith
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RoseNadler
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Recovery*
Oct 1, 2019 1:38:26 GMT -8
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Post by RoseNadler on Oct 1, 2019 1:38:26 GMT -8
I’ve always thought, if I want to lie to my partner about something - that probably means it’s something I shouldn’t do.
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Post by Sexlessw on Oct 2, 2019 4:24:04 GMT -8
Lying is never a thing. I never, ever lied to my husband about ANY of my EMAs or PoAs. If you lie to your life partner, how can you be honest with yourself?
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Post by Havefaith on Oct 2, 2019 10:27:20 GMT -8
I am deeply ashamed to admit I lied. A lot. To innocent people who deserved better.
I cannot begin to describe the darkness I lived in, and its accompanying anguish, despair and moral depravity.
I will spend a lifetime making living amends.
And, as God is my witness, I will live a life of truth, dignity and grace as I continue to move forward in my recovery...
HaveFaith
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RoseNadler
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Post by RoseNadler on Oct 2, 2019 17:07:56 GMT -8
I lied a lot, too, over the years with this addiction.
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Post by Sexlessw on Oct 3, 2019 3:45:09 GMT -8
HaveFaith and RoseNadler:
There's no reason to lie now. We've found the strength to figure some things out - the main reason we lie, at least for me, would be shame. I feared if I told the truth I would be shamed and castigated by others.
Now that I live mostly in truth, I don't worry about shame. OTOH I don't judge others like I once did.
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Post by lex0788 on Oct 3, 2019 4:28:39 GMT -8
Thanks for all this amazing insight and discussion. Honestly it helps so much. I have never lied to my husband about any thing... have been honest throughout it all and just so confused about what I have been going through. It’s like my little bubble of my identity and what I thought life ‘should’ be and who I was completely burst. He’s been supportive, patient, loving, pursued his own growth through all of this ... im really lucky. I just get so confused about being crazy about another man when I have all of this. However, I’m learning about myself, my wounds, etc. oh life.
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RoseNadler
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Post by RoseNadler on Oct 3, 2019 6:40:01 GMT -8
One of the good things about recovery is not being afraid to tell the truth. When you’re doing something you aren’t supposed to be doing, and you cover it up, maintaining the coverup is extremely stressful. When I abstain from acting out, I don’t have to do that.
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