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Post by mike1964 on Apr 2, 2012 1:38:16 GMT -8
I've been away for a little while .... Anyway, today marks the 2-month anniversary when I broke up with POA. As a quick refresher - we had been seeing each other for 2 years (with a break in between), but it was a very one-sided relationship. She even moved in with me for most of 2011, but moved out in November, but the "intent" was to keep the relationship alive while she got her head together and addressed several other personal isssues. In the last several months of the relationship and after moving out, I was last on her list of importances and got the sstuffs, at best. That certainly didn't help my LA (which I only discovered as a result of that), as I found myself pushing harder and becoming more emotional and broke it off because I couldn't take it any more.
I joined this forum, starting reading a couple books (Addition to Love and another about reclaiming your inner child) and feel like I've identified my LA problem and have grown stronger. I even realized that my POA would not make a very good wife, and that I could do alot better. I went on somewhat of a dating spree, but never found anybody I really liked, and have kind of given up on that. I realize that was LA behavior, but I feel like I got some curiosity out of my system.
Well, last Sunday (8 days ago), she sat next to me in church. The topic of the sermon was "take a chance"", which I did. I reached over and held her hand and she reciprocated. Since then, we've spoken every day this week, and got together 4 times between Friday night and Sunday morning, and it seemed pretty clear that the passion between us was still there.
We talked yesterday about neither of us regretting living together, and that we both seem to have a better grip on our own lives, and the time apart was healthy and necessary for both of us. She also sends me mixed messages in this regard, too. She has not been open and honest with her feelings for several months, and I simply don't know what to think now, either. On one hand, the passion and apparent love is there, but then she also texted me and said, "... I agree that we should take baby steps - we both still have alot to learn and overcome, and I'm not getting my hopes up and to just take it one day at a time, and right now I am at a snails pace".
I just don't know what to do right now. My emotions have been sparked. I love her very much, I want to get back together with her again, but I also don't want to fall back into that pattern we had near the end.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 2, 2012 3:34:50 GMT -8
I'm really beginning to have 2nd thoughts. I'm afraid we'll re-enter the same old cycle as before and that I'm positioning myself to get hurt again. I just love her dearly, and my emotions are beginning to overcome me.
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Post by Herenow on Apr 2, 2012 3:44:01 GMT -8
Mike there was a reason it didn't work out to start with. What has she done to change? what have you done to change? If everything is the same then you will end up like you have before. For me once a POA is a POA I am no longer in relationship to the person but to my addiction and getting my obsession met. I tried several times to move back towards my POA and it always ended up the same, EXACTLY THE SAME, except that I kept working my program so there was less and less fall out for me to overcome. I don't know anything about your POA but you do. Do some deep soul searching, talk to some reliable friends and meditate on it. Pay attention to the yellow and red flags if and when they appear. Good luck in your discernment.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 2, 2012 4:24:28 GMT -8
Diane - thanks for your reply. I think that each of us has changed, but I also think neither of us has changed enough. My POA is similar to me in that she doesn't seem to know how to be alone, as she's had a history of being in relationships back-to-back, and since ours ended, she commented that she's been keeping herself busy by doing volunteer work. She has changed in regard that she seems to be getting her life in order, and her moving out and us not being together the past 2 months has allowed her to become more herself again. However, there seems to be alot of yellow flags. I like that term!!
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Post by lilila on Apr 2, 2012 6:43:01 GMT -8
Hi Mike What strikes me is that you realized she wouldn´t make a very good wife and that you could do a lot better. Please don´t forget that realization. My guess is you´re open to a lot more intimacy than she´s ready to give you. You say you went on a dating spree, didn´t found anyone you liked, then toyed with the idea of giving it a try again with your poa under the hope that you´ve both changed. Perhaps you´re being impatient, not taking your time to find someone you´re really compatible with?
On the other hand, and this is really subjective so don´t take it into account if it doesn´t apply to you, but I´d feel terrible if someone told me he needs to go at a snails pace with me. I´d probably try to understand, but inside I´d be screaming "you either want to be with me or not!!" (I´ve been through that too, so I know what it does to your self esteem).
Please take care of yourself, it´s so easy to settle for less than you´ll ultimately be happy with. Just some ideas to ponder, hope it helps some.
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Post by Herenow on Apr 2, 2012 6:49:01 GMT -8
Mike, have you looked at the blog baggage reclaim? www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/It is a great blog about no contact, letting go, dating, being a door mat or not, setting standards values and all of that. She is the one who made the term red and yellow flags. and the other book that helped me make no contact stick was "Its called a break up cause it is broken". I don't know if that one is appropriate here, but I loved what he had to say. And if it is broken, then maybe it can't be fixed, maybe it simply is not the right match for you.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 2, 2012 7:09:45 GMT -8
Requin & Lilila - Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that 2 months isn't a very long time. Ironically, we seem to be closest at church, and that, as well as many other signals, make me feel that it's in God's plan, but HIS timing.
Yes, I would agree that I'm being impatient. I guess that's a huge part of the LA in that I yearn so much for the intimacy of loving and being loved. And Lilila, your snail's pace analysis is spot on, which was the problem the whole time and what caused me to want to break it off. I simply was 10th on her list of 9 priorites, and I couldn't take it anymore. And it wasn't just my inside screaming it - it was a topic that I seemingly brought up every week when she had every excuse why she wouldn't see me, followed by, "it's not that I don't want to be with you, but ...."
I'm glad I returned to this forum, because it's giving me the strength I need at this time, as my heart and my head are in full battle. I love her so much, and I WANT to be with her so much, but my head is telling me otherwise. At this moment, I'm trying to go NC again and wait for her to make the first contact. I want to tell her that I still love her very much, but this simply won't work.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 2, 2012 9:37:19 GMT -8
Diane - thanks for the link. I just went to the site. there's alot there!! Do you have more info on that book you referenced? I'm also thinking that if I told the POA "thanks, but no thanks", I will boost my own self-esteem and would also establish boundaries that I won't let her walk over me anymore.
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Post by brainhealth on Apr 2, 2012 10:34:40 GMT -8
Mike,
Slow, Slow, Slow, Slow Down. do your inner child work. Find out who you are.
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Post by maxheadcase on Apr 2, 2012 12:39:24 GMT -8
Boy Mike, that's a tough call. You still love her. The passion between the two of you is still there. You say you both have changed....
As someone else wrote, you broke up for a reason. I guess for me I would just keep on working on myself, limit the time together for now and see how she reacts. I mean the old saying goes, it didn't work out for a reason the first time around but who knows???
It could turn into something wonderful and meaningful or you could be opening up to the vicious cycle again. I know the last time my POA and I broke up years ago I had a hard time dating other women. I grew so comfortable with my POA, it was hard to open up and be comfortable with other women. It's weird.
Good luck in whatever you decide. It would be nice if we actually had a comment of two people actually getting back together and things working out.....but this is the real world not some Hollywood movie, although it can and has happened. Again good luck Mike. I hope you make the right decision for yourself and not because of the passion you still felt between the two of you.
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Post by Herenow on Apr 2, 2012 13:11:35 GMT -8
Mike It's Called a Breakup Because It's Broken: The Smart Girl's Break-Up Buddy [Book] by Greg Behrendt, Amiira Ruotola-Behrendt in Books don't fret the title, its for anyone. Greg is a recovering alcoholic and it shows he's done a fair amount of work. the book is humorous and very helpful in keeping denial in check.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 2, 2012 14:48:01 GMT -8
I'm glad I came back to this forum again to give me strength and the ability to establish boundaries. I've said this to my POA and many other people 100 times - "I love her very much and I'm very much IN LOVE with her. I've never loved anyone as much as I love her".
I had a wonderful time being with her several times over the weekend, and the passion came right back. However, it would not be wise for me to go back to her and date her. She's an avoidant person, and we would only find ourselves back in the same old unhealthy cycle of a one-sided relationship. This will be a very difficult thing for me to tell her, because I wonder if I'll ever have those feelings for someone again, and I don't want to lose that.
If God meant for us to be together (which I truly believe), then it will be in HIS time, not mine.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 4, 2012 1:00:22 GMT -8
June posted this quote in another thread:
“Acceptance is not submission; it is acknowledgement of the facts of a situation. Then deciding what you're going to do about it.” Kathleen Casey Theisen
This hits the nail on the head with me right now, as I've been pondering my weekend activities with the POA for the last couple days. I've essentially made NC with her since Monday morning, except for short text responses back to her, and she hasn't really contacted me, either. Additionally, posts saying the reason I broke up with POA is because the relationship was broken also resonates in my head.
In short, re-visiting the forum and getting back into recovery has given me the strength and power to establish boundaries that are healthy to me, rather than serving as the POA'S doormat and running back to her on my knees, kissing her feet, as my arms are wrapped around her legs.
And yes, if it's GOD's WILL, then it will be done, but GOD needs to work some miracles with the POA first. Learning about myself has provided the added bonus of learning about her and her deep-rooted issues. This time around, I won't allow my LA to cause me to sacrifice my best judgment and self-esteem.
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Post by LovelyJune on Apr 4, 2012 1:46:48 GMT -8
Of course I have to step in here with my two cents: Saying that it's God's will removes YOUR own personal ability to make judgement calls. It takes away your ability to use your brain and move in the direction that you want (and don't forgot, God gave us both emotions and a logical brain with which to make decisions). You need to take part in the choices you make from here on out. That is not to say you have control over whether she falls madly in love with you or not (that indeed is God's will). But what is your will? I recently posted a thread called the difference between Love and a Healthy Relationship. I suggest reading it. To summarize, we can absolutely find passion in others and have mutual LOVE shared between two people, BUT we can also be completely incompatible. You see this all the time in abusive relationship (battered women love their husband so they stay, and the abuser loves his wife and does not see that his abuse is wrong). Don't go blindly this time, that's all. Know that two people can love each other but not have a healthy relationship. If you've tried twice before and it didn't work, chances are pretty good it won't work again. If you really NEED to find out if three is your lucky number, then like the others said, go slow and use your brain. Recognize that it takes MUCH MORE than passion to make a healthy relationship. laarecovery.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=topic&action=display&thread=12152 And it's so true! Just because we are love addicts doesn't mean we can't find love some day. But hopefully, after we've been in recovery a while, we learn to make calculated decision instead of impulsive ones. ANd we take more care in our well-being than before. And we take into consideration the importance of our hearts and not putting them into situations where chances are higher that they will break again. The more you love yourself and see your own personal value, the more you work harder to protect yourself (and I don't mean turn into a cold as stone human that has no feelings! I mean learn to balance head and heart).
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Post by lettinggo on Apr 4, 2012 3:00:26 GMT -8
Mike- The pull that you feel with your POA can be a replay of the scenario from your childhood. My POA is avoidant, as was my Dad. I excelled in school, because that was the only thing that I was praised for. It feels FAMILIAR to chase after the unattainable love object. Purposely forging a friendship/dating relationship with someone who is secure, and can give you love back may feel strange, and unexciting at first. Hang in there and know that you CAN have a healthy give and take with someone; you can find a relationship that is not unrequited. The trick is to take your self esteem with you when you go out there dating. Following all of the wonderful advice on this site helps you to develop self esteem. Therapy is also helping me to believe that I DESERVE a healthy relationship. Keep posting...we all identify with you!
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Post by lilila on Apr 4, 2012 4:47:04 GMT -8
BTW thank you Diane for the link for the baggage reclaim blog, I´m getting a lot out of it!!
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 4, 2012 5:47:58 GMT -8
Saying that it's God's will removes YOUR own personal ability to make judgement calls. It takes away your ability to use your brain and move in the direction that you want (and don't forgot, God gave us both emotions and a logical brain with which to make decisions). You need to take part in the choices you make from here on out. That is not to say you have control over whether she falls madly in love with you or not (that indeed is God's will). But what is your will? June - I absolutely agree with that statement, and did not want to mislead you to think that I'm sitting back and letting God's will lead my life. God gave me the ability and expects me to use that ability. Otherwise, it would be like saying that I lost my job and sit back on the couch waiting for the phone to ring and not send out resumes. I do, however, feel that God has sent me numerous messages that we were supposed to be together, but it's pretty clear that the time is not now. I don't know how to function with more than 1 quote, so I will post again with some other thoughts ....
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 4, 2012 6:01:48 GMT -8
June - I saw something about the difference between love and the healthy relationship, but not sure if it's the same post or not. I'll look for it again. Do you remember the name of your post? That's an interesting concept that 2 people can love each other but not have a healthy relationship. In my case, our unhealthy relationship has been because it was a lopsided, one-sided relationship. Plus, my POA tends to be an avoidant and is not very open and honest about her feelings, to the point that I feel she's dishonest at times. Oh, and let's not forget that I'm a relationship LA who can become obsessive when feeling insecure, which only made me try harder the more insecure i got. Our counselor also made a real good analogy. If you have 2 people that are 50% healthy, then you'll have a relationship that's 25% healthy.
Lettinggo - I need to revisit my inner child again, because I learned alot about myself (and, ironically, my POA) when doing so. I was about 1/3 of the way thru John Graham's book, and it got really technical about the brain and lost my interest. I also had to look up requited in the dictionary (Google) .. in doing so, I saw a quote that said "unrequited love is the cruelest enemy". How true that is!
Interestingly, I've taken a leap in my recovery since re-visiting the forum 3 days ago, after a 2 or 3 week break. For the first time, I feel like I can establish boundaries with my POA and basically tell her the words she used on me of "you shouldn't get your hopes up". This has definitely built up my self-esteem and may actually shift some of the power that she always maintained 100% of in the relationship. She was totally secure because I would do anything for her. I was insecure because I felt virtually unimportant to her.
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Post by LovelyJune on Apr 4, 2012 7:15:08 GMT -8
Here's the link to the thread laarecovery.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=topic&action=display&thread=12152And it seems that God has given you some pretty strong messages that you guys are NOT meant for eachother also, namely your gut instinct that she wouldn't make a very good wife, your realization that she gave you sstuffs and your realization that it's a one sided relationship. Those too, are all signs to listen to. So often we look for outside signs! But internal ones can be just as important. I also think that God does put people in your life, but why do we always think it's for a deep meaning, like a love relationship? It could be a test. Maybe this is a test to see if you've really recovered? Just things to think about.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 4, 2012 7:26:01 GMT -8
LJ - thanks for the link to love vs. healthy relationships. Very thought provoking, as is alot of what I'm reading in this forum. I'm so glad I'm back here again. I snapped back pretty quickly in just a couple days and I'm definitely alot healthier than I was when I joined about 6 weeks ago.
Yes - God puts people in your life and they definitely serve their purpose. I have definitely received mixed messages, and you never know which messages are truly from your HP, or from the enemy, or from your own emotions. Only time will tell.
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Post by LovelyJune on Apr 4, 2012 8:01:53 GMT -8
Very good to hear! And good to know that you realize that TIME will tell.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 4, 2012 14:51:47 GMT -8
Requin - Good question. I don't know if HE is telling her. Maybe HE is?? Maybe she gets the same messages I do when we're together on Sundays at church? Oftentimes, we both comment that the pastor seems to be talking directly to us in his sermons.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 4, 2012 15:34:12 GMT -8
How can my heart and emotions turn on a dime so quickly? Just yesterday and this morning, I was really strong and didn't even want to hear from my POA, and then naive me, I felt "guilty" ignoring her and just sent a short friendly text mid-day, we texted back and forth a little, and now I'm all kinds of emotional and upset because I haven't heard from her for hours. Clearly, I shouldn't have broken my NC, because now I'm the one who is suffering. But how / why did I go from being so strong to so weak in such a short period of time? I'm feeling a combination of jealousy (maybe unfounded) and anger right now.
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Post by LovelyJune on Apr 4, 2012 15:47:59 GMT -8
Good one Requin!
And I hate to say it but this thread is starting to sound like fantasy and denial about the FACTS...you being whispered to by your maker that "she is the one." I do not want to disrespect anyone's faith, but it sounds like very ungrounded reasons to date someone.
As for emotions, they are unpredictable. We can ALL feel one way or then another. You have to start to depend more on your logical brain and the facts of the relationship. Emotions are not something to depend upon. Gut instinct and logic is. Here's the equation: your emotions are your child and your logical brain is your adult. If you're on an emotional rollercoaster it's because something is wrong. WHen all things are right, your head and your heart are in perfect alignment.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 4, 2012 15:58:34 GMT -8
LJ - you're not being disrespectful at all. Believe me when I tell you that I've questioned messages and to their source, which leads to confusion. I do like your comment about when things are right, your head and heart are in perfect alignment. They are definitely NOT in alignment. I know that LA and these boards are all about US, but it's remarkable that as I read more through Susan's book, the inner child, etc., I realize that my POA is even more unhealthy than me, and she makes me unhealthier. It's just hard to fight off the emotion and desire to want to be with her and the desire to feel loved. Yet - she's the last place I should go for that, because I'm not getting it and that's the place I want it from the most. I need to get strong again. I wish I could only turn the clock back 12 hours.
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Post by maxheadcase on Apr 4, 2012 18:46:40 GMT -8
Just a thought: So many people in life claim to be and are Christians. Yet they expect the Lord to do everything for them. As LJ pointed out God gave us a logical brain and to assume something or someone in your life is Gods will, even if they are bad for you isn't always smart. It gives away personal responsibility. I myself have often thought that about my POA and why we were put back into each others lives again. Right from the start I felt uneasy about it. Even today in recovery after spending time with her a couple of weekends ago I felt some uneasiness or things/actions I don't approve of. As LJ or Carolyn pointed out to me on another thread...what are my values?? If someone is rude or disrespects us. If someone does things you do not approve of. If someone does not respect your boundaries, why would God want you or I with this type of person. I guess what I'm trying to say is we ignore the signs, the red flags, logic, reality, because at times we hide behind the "will of God" think. Here is a little example a friend of mine shared with me when I was talking to him about the situation with my POA and praying to God for some strength and guidance. This is not a true story but it reflects how easy we can ignore the obvious even if it is the work of God. In the aftermath of hurricane Katrina a man sat, trapped on his roof as the flood waters rose. He prayed to God to help him get off of the roof. The next morning a boat came by and the people asked the man to climb down into the boat and the man responded "No, God will help me." That night the man prayed to God again, begging for his help to get him off of the roof. The following day another boat came by and again rescuers asked the man if he wanted to be rescued and the man responded "No, God help me get rescued" That night the man was despondent and depressed as he prayed to God and than in anger cursed God for not hearing his prayers and pleas....the following morning another rescue boat came by........... You get the point.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 5, 2012 1:46:48 GMT -8
Max - I like your example and definitely get your point, and I actually DO believe that HE gave us the ability to think and act logically on our own, and expects us to do so. I actually don't hide behind the will of God, but I've received so many messages, they're hard to ignore.
Just after reading into the inner child last night, I spoke with a client who happens to also be a psychologist and devout Christian. A comment she made was that God puts people into our lives for a lifetime, a season, or a reason. I don't know yet which of these apply, but there's no doubt that the relationship with POA exposed my LA, and I've been able to discover alot about myself and my behaviors. Thus, whether POA was for a season or a lifetime, there's no doubt that there was a reason. I'm beginning to accept that.
I realize now that the most important steps to my recovery is to regain my self-respect, self-esteem, and learn to love myself. For what it's worth, my self-esteem took a big boost the other day when my head overcame my heart and I essentially discarded my POA in recognition that she's very unhealthy for me and I'm better off not seeing her.
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Post by Loving My Life on Apr 5, 2012 9:14:52 GMT -8
Im a christian also, but we have to realize when a relationship is just not good for us, I thought my poa was sent from god also, hah. We just have to stop the fantasy, delusions, and denial, and get honest with ourselves about what is going on. If everything is only good when your in church, and not outside of church, what is wrong with that picture? I would distant myself from her if it was me. Keep coming back, talking and sharing with us, it will become clearer. I just had an after thought, your future wife could very well be in your church, but you have not noticed her yet, because you think it is your poa.
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Post by mike1964 on Apr 5, 2012 10:09:45 GMT -8
Thanks for all your valuable input. I'm in a hurry now, and will respond later on tonight when I have the chance to sit down.
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Post by maxheadcase on Apr 5, 2012 12:22:51 GMT -8
Perhaps our POA's were sent by Lucifer....
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