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Post by CodepNomore on Oct 9, 2014 7:21:02 GMT -8
Thinking and talking about your POA is what is keeping you addicted! For you give power to where your focus is!
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Post by Havefaith on Oct 10, 2014 14:20:14 GMT -8
I just posted this elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating, because it does broach the subject of recovery vs. remaining in the addiction -- For me, one of the hallmarks of this addiction is acting and thinking like an adolescent. This addiction kept me in a perpetual state of adolescence in terms of my mind-set. How do adolescents act when it comes to 'love' and the opposite sex? Silly, giddy, getting into the 'he-said' 'she said' drama with others, etc. If one continues in the addiction (which I did for many years), healthy, mature love does not have a chance to develop. My psychiatrist came right out and said I was severely developmentally delayed. Continuing to associate with fellow addicts just kept the drama and addiction alive. I am in intense psychodynamic therapy to get healthy. And part of my program is that: I have to be very careful to stay away from those who will keep me a state of love addiction, which, for me, is rife with obsession, craving, and always wanting for more. Fellow (male) addicts, for me, are as dangerous as heroin is to a drug addict. HaveFaith Read more: loveaddictionforum.proboards.com/posts/recent#ixzz3FmcIxFat
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Post by Sexlessw on Oct 10, 2014 15:53:26 GMT -8
HaveFaith:
Howard Halpern called it "thinking in infant time". "Growing up" is moving way past being an infant. It means we understand where we've come from - and why we have learned new ways of interacting. No longer an infant (or adolescent!)
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Post by Havefaith on Oct 10, 2014 16:44:11 GMT -8
Yes, sexlessw,absolutely, and that is why I am in psychodynamic therapy -- it has given me the knowledge of "where I've come from." It came from a very deep, subconscious level and therapy brought it to the surface where I could truly examine it. And I have indeed, started the 'growing up' process. Thanks for sharing. Here is a brief description from James Haggerty, M.D., that explains this particular type of therapy (which has really saved me from my destructive self....) --
"Psychodynamic therapy, also known as insight-oriented therapy, focuses on unconscious processes as they are manifested in a person’s present behavior. The goals of psychodynamic therapy are a client’s self-awareness and understanding of the influence of the past on present behavior. In its brief form, a psychodynamic approach enables the client to examine unresolved conflicts and symptoms that arise from past dysfunctional relationships and manifest themselves in the need and desire to abuse substances."
HaveFaith
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Post by CodepNomore on Oct 10, 2014 21:34:36 GMT -8
Havefaith, I am glad to see you around...Your insightful posts always promote recovery and are helping many. Speaking of behavior, some researchers were dissatisfied with psychoanalysis' lack of directly observable phenomena that could be measured and experimented with. Thus, they turned to exploring only the "behaviors" that could be observed and measured, and away from the mysterious workings of the mind. And here is where "The Reinforcement Theory" or "Behaviorism" evolved (out of their frustration with the introspective techniques of humanism and psychoanalysis). So I would like to talk about "Reinforcement Theory" which I also find useful in recovery: Reinforcement TheoryThis theory may also be known as Behaviorism or Operant Conditioning (which is still commonly taught in psychology today). It states that "an individual’s behavior is a function of its consequences." (Management Study Guide 2013). This theory is based primarily on the work of B.F Skinner and states that reinforced behavior will be repeated, and behavior that is not reinforced is less likely to be repeated. It assumes that the consequences of a person's behavior determine the level of motivation. For psychologists, this is known as the "law of effect", by which they understand that we try different behaviors, assess their effects, and do more of those with better effects and less with those with worse. In 1911, the American Psychologist Edward Lee Thorngay woman (1874-1949) published the Law of Effect, a principle of learning that states, “ responses that produce a satisfying effect in a particular situation become more likely to occur again in that situation, and responses that produce a discomforting effect become less likely to occur again in that situation.” For simplification, I will only apply the two components of reinforcement here: 1. Positive Reinforcement An existing set of circumstances --> a particular behavior --> the contingent positive consequence --> increase in the frequency of the behavior. 2. Negative (avoidance) reinforcement An existing set of circumstances --> a particular behavior --> contingent termination or withdrawal of an unpleasant consequence --> increase in the frequency of the behavior. This in effect means that if we want to reinforce a positive behavior in us, such as for example doing "No Contact", we would focus on its benefits or rewards. On the other hand, if we take for granted or lightly a "slip" by terminating or withdrawing its "unpleasant consequence", we would likely increase the frequency of such slip (breaking our NC more frequently).Therefore, in this regard, it is better to let the addict experience the unpleasantness of "using" than simply brush it aside and say it's "okay". We are not helping the addict in that way but on the contrary, reinforcing his/her addiction all the more.The reason I succeeded for many years with NC is primarily because I let myself absorb the unpleasantness of addiction and breaking of NC. (I sit with its discomfort and pain.) Honestly, I don't know anyone who has been as successful by quickly dismissing its unpleasant consequence. This is the reason, some of you may have noticed that I don't "baby talk" anyone who is acting in addiction or still not getting it. Instead, I first call them out on it. Yes, it is tough love and may sound harsh, but it is proven helpful in the long run. In the same way, I view the scandal, shame, pain, withdrawal, and all the other consequences that come with addiction, as helpful for me to avoid repeating any of them again and stay healthy! All I am saying here is let a person go through its natural process. Be it through pain, suffering, shame, hardship, whatever. Let them take it as it is at least for a while. And in the end it would help them learn and grow.
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Post by ~w~ on Oct 12, 2014 8:12:24 GMT -8
Am going to be Remain user, but made some steps. My bf moving out and i am reading loads off info eveyday, i bought the books off Susan Peabody cannot wait to explore. Everything happens at the time God wants things to happen, thats why we here now to open over hearts and start recovery. I find out there is a meeting in Ala"s group not far, am very scared to go been delying for 3 weeks, dont want to see familar people in there, and then get feedback.. My bf wants to go with me, and save relationship. What would you do?
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Post by SandyLove on Oct 12, 2014 12:28:32 GMT -8
are you saying your boyfriend wants to come with you to the meeting? if so, i strongly advise against that. the meeting should be your forum to explore your feelings about him and your life. if he wants to go to a separate support group, great support that. Regarding saving the relationship, that answer can only come from you. Take your time. Participate in this process and you will see your viewpoints shift over time. take your time. do you feel like your relationship is addictive? if so try n/c for a period of time and see how you feel after that.
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Post by ~w~ on Oct 12, 2014 13:45:41 GMT -8
We started as a friends at first, and then we met and just went with the flow. It was great fun and loads off sex. But then i started to feel insecure, broke up with my friend and found out him messing about with his female friend sexmessages. So become paranoid and we been arhuing over since. He moved down to be with me. Find job here. From day one we met up i was pushing him away, snd stil do. Become addicted to sex. As for love addiction i havent figured out yet which one, i am controlling insecure and withdrawn since that issue. He wants to put all behind and move on. me i concentrate on myself and digging my insecurities reading loads. He does remaind my ex, and thats why i question relationship now. Its hard to make final dessision: hes great friend, caring snd sweat. Always puts me first. But i realize he cant let go and wants to try all help we can do make me feel better. One minute i think off him as my best friend, the other minute as my lover. But for future? Dont see mysrlf with him.. He relays on me a lot, hes new here and apart from me has only work ppl to talk.i ll take slowly, btw hes moving out as i asked for my space.. He wants to help me to heal myself . But sometimes i feel hes with the problem as well.
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Post by CodepNomore on Oct 13, 2014 1:14:49 GMT -8
~w~, I appreciate your complete honesty. You did not hide your feelings eventhough it might not exactly be what we wanted to hear. That is a good first step! In time, you will realize that recovery will help you more to feel good about yourself than a relationship with so much uncertainties and instabilities.This man sexting with your friend sounds unhealthy and unfaithful. Believe me, great sex would not be enough to make of a great relationship. It will fade overtime and that very thing can sometimes be the reason for an affair or cheating, and an unhealthy attachment.
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Post by ~w~ on Oct 13, 2014 4:29:52 GMT -8
I guess honestly best policy, since them things i become selfish dont give a nuts ( xcuse language), with my bf. i push him away but he finds me perfct lol.
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Post by CodepNomore on Oct 16, 2014 23:57:17 GMT -8
Speaking of honesty....
I have to remind myself that part of my recovery boundary is :
I will be wiser in using my precious time. I will not waste time anymore explaining to anyone who remains imprisoned by their own refusal to let go and hanging their hopes on POA/unhealthy relationship.
If anyone insists on contacting their POA, wanting to have another ending/closure, take more lies, poor treatment and abuse from toxic people, non monogamous, fantasy relationship, then go ahead...Suffer the whole consequences of your stubborn choices until you wake up one day and realize that you already reached the bottom and has nowhere to go.
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Post by ~w~ on Oct 17, 2014 2:09:46 GMT -8
Its painfull to say but you are right, its my desicion to stay in relationship but i started to look for help, went to gp as i would like to go to some theraphy. As i dont have many friends he is my best friend he is always there for me. As well as you are here.
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Post by CodepNomore on Oct 17, 2014 2:41:27 GMT -8
Take heart. I was talking in general. I expressed it strongly in my ardent desire to stir up some actions. Sometimes it seems I feel more the weight of their addiction than they do. I feel bad that they let this addiction take their dignity, sanity, serenity, away from them. It is a very serious matter to me.
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Post by ~w~ on Oct 17, 2014 8:09:13 GMT -8
Its like seeing kids doing something bad but they wont listen to the warning because they need to go through that selves.i lost myself i long time ago, after my first long relationship i started to look for help. Then started seeing red tags but still end ed with the ssme feeling off low self esteem. As just i can fulfill me and no one else.wrote few notes for kids as saying you are welcome in this world and i always be there no matter what..and still trying to ajust that all emotions have to be expressed. Let kids cry if thats what they feel or be upset, happy.. Am still a baby with my babys. gosh..thank you for your insight codepnomore.x
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Post by CodepNomore on Nov 17, 2014 5:15:51 GMT -8
It makes me wonder...How come that those who are still obviously connecting with their POA mentally, emotionally, and/or could be triggered to break NC, would pretend that it is an "Ex-POA" already? Who are they trying to deceive? When it is still a current, existing POA? If not, why bother to post strongly and frequently about him/her if he/she is an ex-POA already? What are you gaining from it? It all just seems contradictory and does not make any sense. Get real. That's all.
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Post by cataddict on Nov 17, 2014 6:27:20 GMT -8
For me that is because that is where I would like them to be and I feel writing it helps me to get closer to the place I want to be. Less about deceiving myself, more about visualising the future.
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Post by CodepNomore on Nov 17, 2014 9:37:00 GMT -8
Hi cataddict, I am honestly touched by your response. You are just probably doing what you know is best and yet sorry to say that its result seems not as effective based on your most recent post. This is just an information that you may take or leave: Visualization works most effectively if it is on a positive note and goes with a measurable goal. For example: Instead of visualizing that your current POA is an ex-POA, it will be more helpful to visualize that you are keeping No Contact for let's say 6 months. It makes you focused on your real goal of recovery. Writing about your goals will help you more than writing about your ex-POA. Because your focus is on your recovery and POA is just what you are 'using'. So even if he becomes an ex, another POA can come into the picture and so on and so forth. Since we give power to where our attention is, it does not matter if it is an ex or not. In addition, there is the Law of Cause and Effect. If we want to succeed in something we will choose the "cause(s)" that have that actual effect. Like those of us who are truly recovered what do we do? We are focused on achieving our well-defined goals and action plan. We are not wasting our time and energy on a POA. If you do the same you will have similar effects. That is how the Law of Cause and Effect works and it is inexorable.
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jesuisrecovery
New Member
Reading Facing Love Addiction - impressed by her precision on the symptom, support wanted!
Posts: 4
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Post by jesuisrecovery on Jan 14, 2015 14:01:54 GMT -8
Today I blocked my ex's number. Never had the courage to do that in the past, always thought, he will not contact me, we are friends now, even if he contacts me, I will just deal with him as a friend. But I realized that things are not so simple. Every text that I received from him, I caught myself analyzing and hoping there are some special meanings or intentions that he wants to come back to me... No, he is a functional alcoholic and a love avoidant, I don't want to repeatedly going back and breaking up anymore. No good result came out of it by far, no good result will come out of it in future either. So, for my own health, I decided to focus on my own recovery, and it is essential to quarantine from our addiction. Look, I am blocking him from my phone today, I hope you don't see any posts from me, saying, "he contacted me again, it's not my fault, it's HE contacted me". I don't have anyone or anything to blame anymore, as long as I don't unblock him, he will not be able to text or phone me.
I am responsible for my own life, no one forced me to put him in my life, he should have been a person long gone, but the fact that he was still contacting me until after the new year is bc I allowed him to come in and still clinging on him with one glimpse of hope.
No fear dear me, it is not so scary to remove him from my life bc I need to recover. I am committed to recovery this year, no fear towards loneliness, being single, being myself, or being alone on Valentine's day!
Je suis Recovery!
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Post by CodepNomore on Jan 15, 2015 5:59:46 GMT -8
Welcome jesuisrecovery, Very well-said. Good for you for realizing it...For taking responsibility to set a boundary by blocking your ex and doing NC. By the way, is your name here "Jesu"?
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jesuisrecovery
New Member
Reading Facing Love Addiction - impressed by her precision on the symptom, support wanted!
Posts: 4
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Post by jesuisrecovery on Jan 15, 2015 10:06:54 GMT -8
Thank you.
My name is JeSuisRecovery.
Have a great day!
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Post by James C T on Jan 15, 2015 12:06:30 GMT -8
It's French. It means "I am recovery." Je suis un étudiant de la langue Française.
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Post by LovelyJune on Jan 15, 2015 13:23:14 GMT -8
Je suis Lovelyjune...enchante! And I forgot all my french....
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Post by CodepNomore on Jan 16, 2015 6:59:04 GMT -8
Oh nice. Thanks James for the translation. Funny, I have a French friend in Paris and at work, but I have never asked them to translate for me.
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Post by CodepNomore on Feb 11, 2015 19:15:55 GMT -8
Hi daisymae and to NC keepers, If there's anything that has truly helped me to heal from my abusive exPOA it is NC; counting it until I have lost count, because days become weeks and weeks become months and months become a yearly count and a yearly count becomes a decade. When I count, I am not thinking about POA at all, but about my recovery, goals, progress, and lessons. Because NC for me is a lifesaving device that frees me from the power of addiction or POA. So you are doing well and we are proud of you.You and the rest who are keeping their NC have my full support. You will truly heal and recover and will be proud of yourselves.
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Post by Sobriety on Oct 9, 2015 12:34:11 GMT -8
Speaking of honesty....I have to remind myself that part of my recovery boundary is :I will be wiser in using my precious time. I will not waste time anymore explaining to anyone who remains imprisoned by their own refusal to let go and hanging their hopes on POA/unhealthy relationship.If anyone insists on contacting their POA, wanting to have another ending/closure, take more lies, poor treatment and abuse from toxic people, non monogamous, fantasy relationship, then go ahead...Suffer the whole consequences of your stubborn choices until you wake up one day and realize that you already reached the bottom and has nowhere to go.
Codepnomore what you saying seems the only way to recovery. We hold on too tight to our hopes that our POA will change. Part of contacting them is based on hope that may be they finally got our words, may be they will realise how much they hurt us...and we keep passing days, months and years with that hope. But nothing changes. Even if things change for a few days the instability that comes after is worse as PoA will be back to it sooner or later... I have experienced this first hand. I have reached my bottom. I have nowhere to go immediately but I am working on it...
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Post by Sobriety on Oct 9, 2015 12:52:23 GMT -8
Writing about your goals will help you more than writing about your ex-POA. Because your focus is on your recovery. Like those of us who are truly recovered what do we do? We are focused on achieving our well-defined goals and action plan. We are not wasting our time and energy on a POA. If you do the same you will have similar effects.
So true! I used to be just focused on my PoA/abusive husband. We still live in the same house but dont talk to each other. It bothered me a lot initially.. It was the biggest rejection I felt.... But then slowly...very slowly actually,I started practicing detachment what Pia melody and robin norwood writes in their recovery chapter. I started shifting the focus on myself, my needs, my hobbies, my friends, my goals and I feel better.
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Post by leahb on Oct 9, 2015 13:00:50 GMT -8
Thanks for this post Sobriety. You are leading by example and it's just the thing I needed to read today. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by CodepNomore on Oct 13, 2015 8:52:42 GMT -8
Hi Sobriety, Thanks for sharing and quoting my posts. I was very intense and overly passionate in advocating the keeping of NC. Especially when I saw newcomers were hurting breaking their NC during the time of these posts. But since then, I have been learning to keep some healthy boundaries. Because I have realized that it could also cause some "shaming" to the person slipping. So just balancing my act. Speaking of which...Today the person I am mentoring had slipped w/ a single response to her abusive, toxic husband. And I tried to "balance my act" and not to overreact. We just reviewed the matter, took its lesson and started moving forward again. I am continually giving her my unconditional support. Just like to our dear members here.
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Post by leahb on Oct 13, 2015 16:20:38 GMT -8
Way to go Vivi! We all have days where we slip into thoughts that don't serve us. Good for you for putting you first.
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Post by CodepNomore on Oct 15, 2015 3:46:55 GMT -8
I am proud of every lovely member here doing their recovery work and keeping their NC. WTG! You are the best!
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