Howard Halpern and Dating

"I needed to face the fear of being on my own before I can allow a healthy person into my life. Otherwise I am repeating the cycle, looking for a band aid to replace the wound that has never healed. I needed to face the pain of loss without a relationship (but with other support). "

Hi Brooklynberry, I'm in the same boat. I am trying to dive into my biggest fear, which is being alone. I feel, I know from working the steps and the inventories I have done that all of my inappropriate relationships that I've gotten addicted to have been to fill that void.
The last one, was one of 4. I am really stepping into recovery, and trying to heal that void, not losing the last poa, but all that inner stuff that has been around forever.

i agree with what has been said above. when i tried to date in early recovery i met a guy that was treating me the same my ex POA. it was unbelievable. only after being single , i mean no kissing , no flirting , focusing only in my life , i faed the fear of being alone and could work the steps without having any other thing distracting me. i feel now im ready to meet someone but i know i need to watch every second my steps cause i can go from normal to the most crazy obsessed girlfriend in a minut! so im taking everything slow! each day at time! im happy like this! no hurry to be commited again!

A curiously unexpected week..

I started into recovery when my ex left and found a wonderful relationship with me, probably for the first time in my life I reckon. Over time in doing that I have become healthily possessive of the delicate wonderful soul inside me, who i am growing into. I haven't been lonely, have been happy with just being with me; and have not sought anyone out to share me with - I guess there is selfsihness there because to be brutally honest; I don't know of anyone "worthy" enough to share myself with on an intimate emotional level. After all I've come through and worked through these past months, I wouldn't want to jeapodise that for "just anyone". And I guess I'd kind of resigned myself to thinking that the likelihood of me meeting anyone that would be on a similar path to me would be pretty slim, especially as I live in a rural area and don't really meet folks all that much. And I was OK with that; more than Ok with that actually. for me, staying on my path and loving me is a gift in my life and for the first time I have not been looking for or "needing" someone in my life to "complete me". I have been feeling whole.

Last week the universe put a situation in my day which suprsied me and not being one to turn down gifts from the universe I was open to that and have been so since then;
A chance meeting with someone I'd never met before [which in a small community like mine is an unlikely thing] ran into a long conversation into the night on all sorts of deeply connecting things. Which I found both odd and refreshing coz i was just being honestly who I am and that made a really nice change.
On leaving that evening I asked if i could give her my number which was OK and later that week had to drop a note off to her mailbox and added a personal one to her too, thanking her for her time and company. She called later that evening and we caught up with each other at an event on Friday night though i was pretty busy organising things and didn't get much time to talk. However she waited till the end and we shared some short time and arranged to meet saturday.
And that was nice and again hours of talking and she invited me out to a concert that evening; was a lovely night. I was nervous at first but then realised that all day i'd just been being me, not trying to fit in with anyones idea of me, just being honestly me and had actually had a great day together so the evening too was really good. During that time we had a long honest talk about the kind of relationships we'd come from and what we wanted out of life and things and we were very clear and respectful about our own needs and wants and I felt for the first time that I actually said what i wanted for me without worrying about the consequences; if that wasn't aligned with her journey then so be it, nothing lost and everything gained.

Anyway, we spent Sunday together too doing a heap of chores at her place which was fun too and then watched a movie together and said goodnight, have a great week and will speak before the weekend.

And so who knows where that will go or what will happen but am just taking things day by day step at a time. I honestly didn't really expect to be meeting someone who I felt I could share of myself with at this time, and so honestly and with integrity, but i also feel these opportuities aren't brought into our lives by mistake too, so am just going with it and seeing what happens in a gentle unexpectant way.

Do I hope? I've heard it said that "hope is the first step on the road to disappointment" Well, maybe expectation is.

I have no expectation though I hope that we have an opportunity again in the near future to spend some more time together getting to know each other. And if it turns out that our paths are different then that's Ok too; it's going to take a pretty special someone for me to invest in after the past few years and a whole heap of trust from me to start that process, something that just right now I am cautious to offer.

Also I need to be careful and hyper-vigilant for myself to be on the look-out for "fantasy" head taking over. We had a couple of nice days together, laughed a heap and shared some personal history and both acknowledged that we enjoy each others company. And that's reality and that's what I need to check in with every day that that is what it is for now and I am grateful for the time we have shared to date.

I feel scared I guess because I know my history; I always jump into emotional involvement way too quickly, get hooked and broken. Give myself up. I don't want to do now because I have found me for once, and I am more than OK with me If someone is Ok with me too then that is good; if not, then there's nothing I will be doing about that.

I also need to acknowledge that there hasn't been even the tiniest touch of "limerance" here...which is odd, though somewhat akin to what happened with my PoA. Back then I wrongly thought that would make a difference to me getting hooked in; I know now that is not the case. However, it was nice the last few days to realise that it's OK to meet someone, share time and company and just to allow that.

Anyway, just needed to share where am at and this seemed the right place to do it. Also it's important for me to be honest and current with what's going on and be real about it rather than put it in some kind of fantasy projection world.

Much blessings and gratitude for this wonderful place of healing.

It's a personal choice. My therapist encouraged me to date, stating `you don't become a better hitter standing outside the batting cages watching. You've got to get in and start swinging' I stood my ground though, that I needed some time to get grounded and get to know `me' which in turn would guide me to make better choices in the future.
He honored that and actually agreed. So there!!. . I can teach a trained professional a thing or two! LOL
Again. . .It's a personal decision.

Very foreign to me too Judy And what was also strange, alien and hugely refreshing was both being myself around someone and not feeling scared or insecure, or frightened or walking on eggshells.



Good on you for standing your ground and knowing what you needed to do for you RI, that was wonderful to read and I know what you mean; yes, getting to know "me" so that I know what "me" really wants and needs in life and want not to accept too.



HA! Yes, I think I am hyper-vigilant for the tiniest of hints of warning signs like that Susan It's so true though, and in the past I have blindly ignored even the hugest brightest red-flags and "abandon all hope ye who enter here" signs. Today I realise that i am worth not taking the risk.

I wasn't actually intending to be sharing of myself with anyone either to be honest Presence so it was kind of a suprise to find myself connecting with someone and feeling Ok about it. I am pretty strong with my boundaries, especially around women; I don't allow or participate in any kind of energetic exchange, intrgue, flirting, any of that; it's just not Ok for me that i would do that. So that made things doubly suprising that it was an open honest conversation and nice time together, and we have both been very clear and without any kind of hidden agendas or anything. I think that's important to me, helps me stay in reality too; also it is vulnerable making, to be so plainly honest, but joyful as well, to be so.

Susan - you changed the pics!! I didn't mean for you to swap them, - but those are MUCH nicer

Don't know what was triggering about the ones before, oh oh, yes i do - in the past I would be immediately attracted to women that looked like that; but it was a superficial "immediate" attraction which i would take for "love"..wanting them, and end up either chasing my tail or getting trashed because of it.Now how was that! There was me saying they seemed "predatory" and yet it was me doing the preying. Well there's a reflection for me if ever there was one. Thank you for the gift in that Susan.

Thank you Presence, I really appreciate what you wrote; am comfortable for the moment with what vulnerability i am allowing into my life today too. i think too this is the first time I have not allowed my heart to harden, but instead learnt from and learning to accept with compassion that life is how it is and being grateful for the gifts in that.

In answer to your question - in short, this is a permanent postion, or as permanent as something can be I guess.

In long - before my last relationship I had no concept of boundaries, protection, honouring of relationship. would give myself away at the bat of an eyelid, flirted [what i thought harmlessly] with anyone that would and generally had absolutely no sense of honouring what i now realise and see as the sacred space of relationship. One of the gifts that I learned these past years with my PoA was that for me, a realtionship between two people is indeed a sacred space; to be honoured, cherished and protected. For in that place my heart is open, vulnerable and shared with another, as is theirs.

So too, out of relationship - recovery is a wonderful place, I have learned to love myself, connect with the very heart of who I am and, for me, that is a universal place of self. It may come across as arrogant and selfish but honestly, I feel protective, jealously so, of that. few would be those who i would feel would honour and resepct me sharing that with them, few would really understand what that is for me to do that.

I feel to flirt, engage in some kind of exchange of sexual or romantic energy without engagement would be wrong for me. And by engagement I mean that I am actively considering and making the choice to do so. It is that "choice" that is important to me.

Sorry, that's probably not very clear is it I don't want just anybody to be thinking they can have something of me, so i ensure that, on a day to day basis, there can be nothing misconstrued or inadvertently misunderstood as such. And that is because, when I meet someone that i feel an honest open-hearted safe connection with, it is only they that gets to walk away with that knowledge and know that they are the only one at that time that engages with me on that level.

That's not to say I'm cold, aloof or unfriendly; I don't feel I come across as such and am very open with people who i consider long-term friends and who are "safe" for me. I also have long-term friends who i don't consider 'safe" and so I am more prtoective of myself around them too. It's just that for me, there is a very distinct line bewteen what is Ok for me to share of myself and what is not. And sometimes, like just recently, that line gets moved with thoughtfuloness and clarity and purpose.

Hope there is some sense in there Presence

Glacier,
I think people come into our lives at times to teach us. It sounds as if just exploring the idea of meeting up with him is teaching you a great deal. You are being introspective and making sound, thoughful decisions.
I say go and enjoy. . Just because he's a man doesn't mean it needs to be romantic. One can't have too many friends. Trust yourself and have fun.
One foot in front of the other. .baby steps!
Report back and tell us how it goes!

I really loved to hear this; " And I guess I'd kind of resigned myself to thinking that the likelihood of me meeting anyone that would be on a similar path to me would be pretty slim, especially as I live in a rural area and don't really meet folks all that much. And I was OK with that; more than Ok with that actually. for me, staying on my path and loving me is a gift in my life and for the first time I have not been looking for or "needing" someone in my life to "complete me". I have been feeling whole."

I am in China and I often feel as if I am in a remote area. I realise now that my actions with my POA were desperate and needy. I met a perfectly nice guy and went too fast and he turned into a jerk in front of my eyes.

Ok he might have been a jerk to start with but I will never know now. I have just realised that I need to trust in my higher power that my needs will be taken care of and that I am not being punished by God for not being good enough to have a relationship.

I am dating at the moment, well I consider myself as open to dating. I am going out and being with people and learning social skills I never possessed because when I am in a relationship I tend to disappear.

Thankyou for all being there

ai am learning from all of you.. I have been alone for 10 years after I left my ex husband. I was not in recovery then. I did go to incest survivor groups, ACOA, Alonon, councellors. But not love addiction.
During the 10 years I was happy. I had gone back to school, cared for my kids, developed friendships with friends, and then after 10 years decided to try dating. I went on a few dates with diferent men, no sex , no kissing. Only to see if they were for me.
Then I accepted a date from aman on a site. I dove into emotional and physical intimacy, like crazy. But I stopped and got out before it got even worse. Went through withdawal(did not know that then)and gave another relationshi a try. This was love at first sight. I was so hurt because he was not available shortly after. I got a therapistand then oined the group here. I have been alone for 4 months now, and the recovery has been great for me. I have learned that he was my dad.thats who I was involved with. Thats when I learned that I have the Love addiction
I have met a man on line, close to where i live and work. He is really into me. The problem is he ais he is looking for a place to move out.. He dicided to leave his wife 4 months ago.They have told the kids. This was before he met me. I told him I was looking for a part time ob, littele wxtra money, so he offered me a ob at his construction company...painting smallobs. I am meeting him in an hour. I am so nerveous.. My problems is intimacy. The red flag is he is still in the house with his family. I told him i would go out on a datewhen he moves out of the house.
I am not doing this out of loniless. I am quite content with myself.I am doing step 4 with a sponser, and think this is a good experience to practice my boundries. We talked about being friends, but I am afraid if it becomes more
Thank you to everyone for sharing and ill keep you posted. I need lots of suport now
gordana

Looks like this is a good section of the forum for sharing about our feelings on dating during early recovery.

Well I'm in early recovery, or at least fairly early recovery....I haven't stuck to NC yet for significant periods of time though I'm seriously considering starting this week (I've been slowly limiting and limiting the contact more and more and am down to just a few areas of contact to "block"). However, I started my codependency recovery months ago and have seen a therapist for years, along with several short-term counselors. I also am quite proud of myself for having come to lots of the recovery principles/tips on my own before having read about them in books or this forum or being told about them by a counselor. Plus I had started being drawn to learning more about Nonviolent Communication awhile back and other tools that have helped my stability in general, like amino acid precursor supplements, nutrition, journaling, routine....but anyway I digress. My point is I'm not quite sure what stage of my recovery I'm at exactly, though I guess the fact that I haven't yet truly disengaged and detoxed the addictive part (I'm hoping 90 days supported NC will do the trick) yet means I'm pretty early still in recovery.

Back to topic though (sorry! tangent!), I've been dating a bit very casually while working to fully get over my POA. I find it's working very well for me.

It's been helping build my confidence back up to go on casual dates with men I don't feel too into and to let myself have higher standards than I used to. I have an attitude of self-respect that's been growing as I recover and I see these men (and my friends and others in my life too) slowly responding by respecting me more (or some of the more toxic ones by growing more distant as, since I'm growing healthier, they seem to have less in common with me and so less interest in me). This change is subtle and gradual. But I'm definitely noticing it. I'm practicing more discretion in who I choose to have around me and to give parts of myself to. I'm being much more cautious about red flags.

The main guy I've been seeing....I have no commitment with him and am purposely keeping it very casual with lots of space. I'm very purposely doing nothing physical with him because that is one of the main mistakes I've made with way too many guys in the past - is getting physical too quick then feeling used and disrespected from them thereon out by establishing early on that I was "easy." It's feeling really, really good to watch myself not act "easy" anymore, to value my self and my body more, and to show clearly through my attitude and actions that if you don't consider me worth taking on great dates and really getting to know me and you're not a healthy person and you're not full of red flags (such as being a heavy substance abuser or very critical or dishonest or other things I've put up with way too much in my life), then you have ZERO chance of sleeping with me - not even a smooch.

I wasn't able to do this before because I was always in such a place of desperation. My "love cup" always needed constant filling, and being sexual always felt like the surefire way to get sstuffs of so-called "love" (even if it had to come from a rude, emotionally distant guy who hardly ever called or some drug addict I didn't take seriously). But with all the building of my self-esteem and self-love and God-love and working on having more stable, positive friendships to lean on and therapeutic support, I'm feeling much more confident about going without sex and having fun going on dates that are truly casual and not distorted by my needy, love-colored glasses idealizing these guys.

Seekingserenitynow,

That is so true about the more healthy positive friendships & etc in our lives, the less we 'need' the other. Sure it sounds simple & obvious but after drowning in my addiction the simple obvious things don't easily come to mind. It really helps to read this stuff, regardless how obvious it seems. Thanks for making that point. I'm really looking in my life in terms of a blank slate...well, a slate with only him on it...& what I can do build my life into a happier place to live in...with or without a PoA, for the very reason you stated.

I can totally see why you'd be afraid to get involved with something that might take you back to the pain you started with..but maybe when it's a right thing you will not have the same fears, you will have your recovered self to bring to the table next time. But oh yea...when I start feeling better from this, you can bet I'll be wanting a break from my potential to become addicted again!

Hi azalea-- I'm not sure why you are posting a question about marriage on a dating thread, but my only advice to you is to figure out what you want to do about your marriage first, before you make any move. Do not leave the marriage, for example, if you're hoping to date. I'm not sure that's a very ligitimate reason to break up a marriage. And I'm not sure any of us can advice you in that respect (whether to stay or go). In my case, it took YEARS deciding whether or not to break up my marriage and luckily, I got to a point of deep suffering and screaming and yelling that it became CLEAR that it was necessary to leave the marriage. I too, though was scared to be alone. So...while I was deciding to leave, I took steps to prepare for my divorce. I went back to school, I got my degree, I got a job, I saved my money. This kind of situation must be tackled with your head and your heart (not your emotions!). Sometimes what is best for the children IS a break up. In my case, my ex and I were fighting daily. I didn't want to raise my kids in that kind of environment. I also got to the point where I didn't care if I ever dated again. That's how badly I wanted out. It may take YEARS to decide. But you owe it to yourself, your family and your health to make a careful decision.

T

I think intent plays a major part here. Susan's quote here is spot on: "If you drink on an empty stomach you get drunker than if you are full of food. It you are full of the love of solitude you will not be so needy when you date."

I'm not putting specific timelines on my non-dating. I know today I'm not. Tomorrow, I expect I won't be either, but that's tomorrow's problem. I'm not closed off to not dating for a year either - it just seems to me setting a specific time sets one up for a period of deferring growth "until" that defined period passes. A day at a time works much better in my eyes.