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Post by LovelyJune on Aug 20, 2011 3:16:15 GMT -8
Think in terms of BALANCE aabha. Is the relationship balanced? Is there an equal amount of give and take or is the friend just taking and you're giving. Codependency usually occurs when you help or do things for another person who is perfectly capable of doing things himself or herself. A good indication of a good friend is when you feel as though it is MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL.
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Post by runrunrun on Aug 20, 2011 3:55:09 GMT -8
aabha, see the thread near this about Ended Another Friendship. We kind of headed off in the direction of what makes a good friend towards the end of that thread.
I too find myself codependent in many types of friendships. Male or female. I think you are starting to see this happening and know its not good. I like LJs statement about balanced. I think equality is important. Does the friend offer equally what you offer? Does he/she talk to you for hours about their issues but still listen when you have issues to talk about? Or are you setting aside your issues to listen and be all you can be to them?
I find myself being the listener setting aside my issues a lot in friendships. I even noticed me doing it with my SLAA sponsor. Not good. I feel like I am sponsoring my sponsor and that doesnt even make sense since she is years ahead of me in recovery.
I think this is a good thread and topic. Maybe we should list what is important to us in friendships and what we can tolerate.
RRR
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Post by Bo on Aug 20, 2011 6:09:17 GMT -8
AABHA, Here's an oversimplified explanation of a Healthy Relationship,
Using your screen name AABHA, look at the letter "H". The two vertical lines ( I I ) that make up the letter H, represent two "Healthy Individuals", standing on their own.
The cross bar that connect the two ( - ) represents the relationship or friendship, making the letter H.
If the - is removed from between the two, both individuals are still standing.
This represents a Healthy Relationship.
on the other hand,
Look at the letter "A" in the same context. When the - is removed or the relationship friendship no longer exists or is damaged, you can see that both individuals will collapse.
If you are in an "A" relationship, it is not very healthy.
If you are in an "H" relationship, it is healthy.
This is an oversimplified way of knowing if your relationship is Healthy.
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Post by nvr2late on Aug 20, 2011 8:58:12 GMT -8
For me, it's first knowing how to be in touch with my feelings.
IF I can identify and own my feelings, then how does the relationship in question make me feel?
If it makes me feel comfortable, understood, and loved, it's good.
If I feel resentful, scared, used, martyred, victimized, it's codependency.
The trick is learning to feel your feelings.
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Post by nvr2late on Aug 20, 2011 9:25:05 GMT -8
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Post by Freetolive on Aug 20, 2011 9:33:21 GMT -8
This is a great topic. Thanks for posting it.
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Post by Loving My Life on Aug 20, 2011 12:14:37 GMT -8
Bo, I love that "A" and "H"...I could not get this info unless I was on this forum. Thx
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Post by lacypooh on Aug 29, 2011 9:21:33 GMT -8
wow guys, I came to the board with some of the same concerns and then I found this post, fantastic! I am wondering the same things because I am meeting new people and I'm not as guarded, but when I think about that, it's scary, I simply don't want to make the same mistakes, and as I've often tried to discuss with my brother who is my safe person, I wasn't sure I knew how to distinguish what is healthy and what isn't. The one thing I want to do is relax, I don't want to be paranoid and over think every little thing the ne wppl in my life do. I remember crying to my brother that I want to be normal. But there have been a lot of good post here on this thread, LJ, great advice on balance--which is one of the main things I look for, but the following really stuck out to me: For me, it's first knowing how to be in touch with my feelings. IF I can identify and own my feelings, then how does the relationship in question make me feel? If it makes me feel comfortable, understood, and loved, it's good. If I feel resentful, scared, used, martyred, victimized, it's codependency. The trick is learning to feel your feelings. I guess that is still a struggle of mine, because I am in a situation now where I don't like how I feel, but everyone tells me to give it time, it's only been one day! In my heart, one red flag is enough for me to run away, but my family is concerned that with that attitude, I'll NEVER let anyone in. |
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Post by runrunrun on Sept 3, 2011 3:42:27 GMT -8
If I find the relationship is causing me pain then its not healthy. Just removed two people from my life because they cancelled plans at the last minute all the time. This caused a lot of pain. I would make plans with them and then hold my breath because they had this habit. I dont need that kind of pain in my life. Hope this helps.
RRR
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Post by LovelyJune on Sept 18, 2011 3:10:09 GMT -8
If you have a lot of "fear" within you of losing this friend, or wanting more when you're not getting any, it sounds like there's imbalance there. Ususally when we fear the loss of someone it's because we already sense that they are not as deeply committed to the relationship as we are (we obsess over that which we do not possess). If this is the case, you need to let her go (and I don't mean end the relationship). I mean, let her come to you for a while. In the meantime, and most importantly, you need to work on where this fear is coming from. The codependent side of you sounds like you are trying to "fill the void" within you, with this person and you're getting frustrated that she's not doing the job. This is not a problem from within the friendship (except that this person's personality brings it out in you), it's a problem within you. We have to take people on their terms, not ours. Friends are simply in our lives to enjoy, not to fill any void within us. This is a very hard lesson to learn and it usually takes getting burned badly, to recognize that one of two things:
1. most people are self-absorbed and don't care about me.
or
2. Most people have lives and while they enjoy me, I need to respect that it is not their job to fill the feeling of emptiness inside me.
If I am way off the mark, forgive me. But this is what seems to be going on.
PS. Healthy is usually not attracted to unhealthy. So, either you are both healthy or both unhealthy. I am a firm believer in like attracts like.
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Post by newlifeinprogress on Sept 18, 2011 15:24:22 GMT -8
Aabha you reminded me of my past unhealthy attachment w/ my former best friend.
All I can say is the longer you hold on the deeper the unhealthy attachment gets and the harder for you to recover!
If a friend wants to stay or leave SHE WILL! It's BEYOND our control!
Better NOT TO EXPECT ANYTHING FROM ANYONE! Just LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE!
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Post by newlifeinprogress on Sept 20, 2011 10:52:35 GMT -8
@ newlife progress, how did you deal with your attachment to your friend, did you just end the relationship? No! Hope against all hopes I used to refuse to end the relationship regardless of how toxic and abusive it is becoming. All I knew is that I'm a genuine loyal best friend who is willing to do anything and everything for her! But I keep praying, coming here, reading sensible books, journaling, while still not totally leaving her. Until last month when she verbally abused me heartlessly, I started to surrender her completely. Then recently I had a personal spiritual revival that sets my heart free from her! So in my new life she doesn't exist. She belongs to my old nature and past life. So do yourself a favor by practicing detachment and living up to your potential now. Just one day at a time. You are worth the journey of recovery! You will feel better and be better eventually when you let go and let God! |
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Post by jaz1327 on Oct 14, 2011 6:20:05 GMT -8
this is a great thread/post and I am relating a lot to it. Lately I've felt lost and listless unable to find answers that will help me. This thread has helped me focus on me and not my POA which has been a struggle. Next week I leave for a business trip to the town where she lives. I am scared and anxious. I have not seen her since July but have had contact. She knows I'm coming in town and I am subconsciously wanting her to call me to get together. I am trying to avoid the temptation to call her. I know my fantasy of us getting back together will never work because she shows no interest in me and she is an ALA who has never experienced true love in the definition I've read here. I am deep within my co-dependence disease with her yet I also know I sabotage relationships I am not "hooked on the look" with or something else I later pick apart. I am unhealthy and looking for help in getting over this unhealthy past relationship and also want to be able to recognize what a good one looks like that is best for me. My mind is all mixed up with what is best for me. I need step by step instructions to get through each day so that in time, when someone does walk into my life I am ready.
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Post by Loving My Life on Oct 14, 2011 6:45:04 GMT -8
Jaz, You can keep posting and sharing where you are, and while you are on your trip, if you know the relationship is unhealthy you might need to avoid contact with her, sometimes it takes a slip/relapse to show us how bad the relationship is for us. I know ive been out of contact with my xpoa since July, and I did not realize until I slipped a couple of weeks ago how much progress i had made in my LA recovery. I did not want to go back after that. So keep working on yourself and your recovery. And keep us posted. We cant offer our help, if your not posting. A problem shared, is a problem cut in half. We are here for you.
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Post by jaz1327 on Oct 15, 2011 6:42:58 GMT -8
tx Carolyn; I realy feel I'm on the right track by focusing on my COD and other defects I've learned about here. It has taken a while but I have learned that my hanging on, is my problem and I have ignored the red flags and been in denial in and every relationship where I have loved someone. Yesterday I received another break up text message from my POA. I say another because when I have talked with her on the phone she opens the door to a possible reconciliation. some background... This June, I gave her an engagement ring (after one year of being in a relationship with her. I was convinced she was the one for me and I showed it on every level); thinking this would show her I will provide the security and love she needs. All her friends and work collegues were happy for her and she seem be be the happiest I've ever seen here. However, Sept 1, I received a break up text ( this is our world now - no courtesy of a face to face meeting or phone call). I couldn't understand why this abrupt statement. She said I pushed too much about things ( I called her out on not wearing her ring at a party) and I may have because things didn't add up. I tried NC but couldn't and gave her time to sort things out. Yesterday, was the final breakup text for me because she simply will not speak to me on the phone, too hurtful for her! And (with the help of other friends), I now know why. The abruptness of her breaking up with me happened earlier this year and like a fool I believed I could rescue her and show her I am not like her other marriages and boyfriends/men. The fact is that, once again she abruptly left our relationship for another man. Ouch! Her pattern in her life is to leave her two marriages (and children) because she is so self absorbed and in unhealthy relationships; most likely because she is an ALA. This revelation finally hit me like a brick in the face. I cannot control her happiness, I can only hope to work on mine. It was the answer I knew was coming and when it did I had mixed emotions but finally realized this is not a person I want to be with or even around. I am so much better than this and deserve someone who is respectful, honest, trustworthy. I am all these things and more.
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Post by Loving My Life on Oct 15, 2011 7:28:22 GMT -8
Jaz, Yes we are better, and we all deserve to be treated with mutual respect. we cant rescue anyone, and we cant show them if we love you enough, you will love me back. So we have to just protect ourselves, and not be a doormat. That does not mean you forget and dont care you just have to accept that the relationship is not healthy, not a good fit. Good insight. Live and Let Live.
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Post by jphcbpa on Apr 17, 2012 12:54:39 GMT -8
I like the SLAA "open relationship theory" in the basic text. most of my relationships have been "closed relationship theory" in which we suck the life out of each other.
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Post by Havefaith on Apr 17, 2012 13:16:53 GMT -8
I have the text and I agree, it is an excellent description of what a relationship should NOT look like and how it ultimately will collapse in on itself because it is not being fed anything healthy and is getting no air.
I was involved with a fellow sex/love addict. Can you say 'closed relationship' ? We most certainly did suck the life right out of each other. Everything else faded away temporarily. Friends, family, etc., we had very little in common except our addictive needs. I truly thought he was all I needed; all I needed was him and the air that he breathed. Oy....
HaveFaith
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Post by LovelyJune on Apr 17, 2012 14:32:00 GMT -8
Can you guys post the text which you are talking about? It would help to know what your version of "open relationship" is because I'm not so sure I've got the right idea!  |
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Post by Havefaith on Apr 17, 2012 16:04:03 GMT -8
"Addictive relationships, with their excessive neediness and demands on others for emotional or sexual salvation, are like closed energy systems. The relationship is the source for personal identity, life purpose and meaning. Each person has become totally dependent on the other for a sense of stability....no external energy is allowed in."
In a healthy relationship, "individuals nourish each other AND also exchange energy through experiences outside the relationship. Rather than being completely dependent on each other, individuals in open-energy-system relationships have a degree of autonomy."
Quoted from SLAA text.
So, it all comes down to, as LJ stated in this thread, BALANCE!
HaveFaith
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Post by LovelyJune on Apr 18, 2012 3:24:59 GMT -8
Thanks for posting that havefaith. That's a great description of healthy vs. unhealthy. And of course, there are degrees of that all along the way. My relationship with D is mostly balanced and "open-energy" but occasionally he doesn't like when I have other ways of seeing things. For example, a vacation with all 6 of us via airplane to a destination like California overwhelms me and I don't want to do it until his kids are older. He feels rejected by this because I don't want to go on this type of vacation as one big family. On the other hand, I love when we all rent a beach house together down the shore, here in NJ. This, for some reason, doesn't overwhelm me. When you make autonomous decisions, not based on the "relationship" but on your own personal preference, it can sometimes hurt a partner. But if that partner is healthy, they will realize that you are your own person and have different ways of thinking about things and doing things. And so while the initial reaction can be a little immature (WHy don't you want to go with me? What's wrong with me that you don't want to go?), eventually a healthy person is able to overcome that and recognize that sometimes couples will not see eye to eye, and that no relationship is PERFECT.  (true story!) |
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Post by jphcbpa on Apr 18, 2012 8:43:34 GMT -8
read this last night...this is what we are playing for. Page 103 SLAA Basic Text (Step 12)
"In domestic partnerships we discovered a whole new experience of sexuality as a non-addictive medium. We discovered that sexuality could not be considered unto itself. Its realization was actually a by-product of sharing and cooperation. In our addiction we had leaned on sexuality and romantic or dependency strategies to yield nearly all of what we considered to be our identity. Now, however, in full possession of our own personal sense of dignity, and living our way into intimate partnership with another, we found that we no longer needed to rely solely on sexual expression to provide our sense of security and identity. Our growing ability to trust, to share, and to live openly in a partnership was already helping to provide these things. Freed from this burden, our sexuality was becoming more like a barometer - an expression of what was, already, in the partnership. It could be no more, or less, than this. Discovering new freedom and joy in the experience of sexuality, however, was a potential which was realized only gradually. We had held so many illusions about the relationship between sex and "love", that we had to do much living in sobriety before these illusions became truly tempered. Gaining sober perspectives in the areas of trust, sex and intimacy was difficult. True intimacy, we found, can not exist independent of commitment."
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Post by Havefaith on Apr 18, 2012 10:19:25 GMT -8
I've been a sex/love addict since 15 years old. I used my sexuality to find love. Men professed love to get my sex. Nobody won. Trust - shared values - intimacy - dignity -- none of these were part of the equation. Sex without love and commitment from BOTH parties is just that -- sex. And sex is not the glue that holds two people together. I found that out, firsthand....
HaveFaith
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Post by haohaohao123 on Sept 14, 2015 7:05:24 GMT -8
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