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Post by leadbelly on Jan 27, 2012 7:05:34 GMT -8
havefaith, you make much sense as do robkry and bklynrn....I hate that I do this, but the measure of pain only tells me how much I have been avoiding.
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Post by ramaplame on Jan 27, 2012 8:40:05 GMT -8
leadbelly these realizations and reflections are great. I think that you are right and it is an amazing goal for yourself today to begin to "...to admit today: I am lonely, so stop pretending like I'm not. I am an addict, so respect that within myself; I want to feel love, so stop pretending that I don't." This sounds like step one and step two to me. They might help you get your thoughts in order. Anyway you sound great and you are totally bringing the focus back to you and not trying to figure out your poa -- but figure out yourself. That is awesome and I'm happy to hear it! Glad you have more days off to begin to really heal. Good luck!
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 27, 2012 8:54:10 GMT -8
"I hate that I do this, but the measure of pain only tells me how much I have been avoiding."
How I see things as I'm sorting things out for myself... the pain was there, it was always there no matter how much we avoided dealing with it. And the pain grows, so we get better at avoiding it. Over time the pain reaches a level of hurt that it either destroys you or out of desperation you scream for help(figuratively) I guess thats bottom, and the longer it takes to reach that point the more realizations were going to have to experience in order to get better.
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Post by brainhealth on Jan 27, 2012 11:51:02 GMT -8
LB
Carolyn makes a profound , if not, a nobel prize winning point. Vicktor Frankel. a Jew in one of the concentration camps (i think outwich -as the boy in the stripped pyjamas said it) described his experience he underwent as he was constantly tortured. He was a professor of something and he was obviously a target for persecution in the camp. He was intelligent enough to realise that if he let captors get to him that he would surely die. So, using mental energy, as the boys in the swasticas were pulling his nails out, he resolved to think about (imagination) lecturing to students in the university , telling them how he was able to overcome and survive the torture. In think in the end the NAZIS lost interest in him but at the same time they began to admire him for his resilience. He survived the camps and I understand , lived a long life. So, make sure you project an outward image of complete positivity. Dont let the workd or him know the weight of an anchor around your neck. remember Vicktor Frankel lived in hell on earth, created by satan and his monsters, you and I and others on this board, have the luxury of deciding knowing that our next bite is not dependent on the red cross. Find that inner child of yours and love her to bits. Let the world know your utopia by reflecting outward your happinesss. But dont let that bast*ard see your pain.
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Post by Havefaith on Jan 27, 2012 12:39:27 GMT -8
Frankl's book is "Man's Search for Meaning" and it is on my list of 'must reads' -- for me, it is important to get out of my own way, and focus on others and other people's experience, strength and hope -- and be of service to others, in whatever capacity I can. It is not all about me and I tend to get wrapped up in my own little universe -- the addict in me can be very self centered and self-serving, and that ultimately leads to a small, closed-off, sad little existence. I prefer to be among the living! www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl/dp/0671023373HaveFaith
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 27, 2012 18:01:26 GMT -8
Well that was coming from my own feelings/experience these past couple months. And yes ouch is about it. The thing is until you hit bottom your not climbing to the top.
Thats a tough question but very valid, and good that your thinking ahead so as not to get blindsided. Just don't over think! I think take each moment as it comes. Be prepared, and steady yourself to not let him get to you. The best response to anger and bitterness is kindness. I'm not saying be nice to him, I'm thinking as you said above pleasant is the right attitude. His anger is not your concern, primarily you need to worry about you. If he wants to be upset, thats his problem.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 27, 2012 18:57:40 GMT -8
yes robgke....but when I pick up the scent that someone/he is hurting....i swoop in to rescue...to save...to help....that is a red hot hook for me....so that I get the title of 'being there for him'....the 'little helper girl'....ah jeez, it's all so pathetic.
I have not been really nice to him really - just because he can't love me. That's not his fault...i can't imagine what a lunatic I must look like through his eyes.
And I lie A LOT TO HIM...stroke his ego...and the payoff for me is that I get to feel that someone is giving me attention....the calibre of it is so sad, and I even know this.
I am 'sessing again robgke, and you're right, don't overthink it.
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 27, 2012 19:13:07 GMT -8
LB, it sounds like you are enjoying manipulating him. Are you really going to focus on yourself, or are you going to keep up the games with your poa? I wish you could work on yourself and forget about him. He will never leave his wife. This is just not healthy for you. Are you reading any books on love addiction? or women who love to much? What are you doing now for your recovery? posting here and meeting with your life coach. What else are you doing?
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 27, 2012 19:32:43 GMT -8
Hi Carolyn.... I have read women who love too much and I am overloading on baggagereclaim....I get it. In my world that and my life coach and posting here and going to the gym and starting nc is quite enough for me right now. The begining of telling the truth is happening now too.
I don't enjoy manipulating him? I'm just angry for my own part and at myself, and I need to keep that away from him. He is a narcissist and clueless about others feelings. And it is really hard to point a finger at him without it coming back at me.
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 27, 2012 19:42:46 GMT -8
I hear you on running in for the rescue... My poa never contacts me, ever, unless she needs me either for Money or car trouble. If I go to the diner where she works, she'll hangout and talk but thats all I ever got unless she needed me, and so when she had a problem it was great for me, I could come in and save the day. When she blew the engine in her car, I gave her mine to drive while I froze on the motorcycle until I got hers running again. I'm realizing it doesn't matter one bit if we go in and help them if they are not willing to be there for us when we need them. The only one you can ever really rescue is yourself, you can only help others if they are also trying to help themselves. So if you see him as being in need of rescue, you cant save him. Maybe the best you can do is set the example and save yourself. That helps you and you can tell yourself you helped him by setting the example but what he does with that is up to him. Either way you win by helping yourself.
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Post by brainhealth on Jan 27, 2012 20:33:32 GMT -8
havefaith,
thanks for that link - franklin is on my list of to be reads, but I heard about him through Stephen Covey
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 27, 2012 21:13:24 GMT -8
Yes robgke....no way he would be there for me....because he's married, but mostly because he doesn't want to be bothered except when it suits him and only him. I just wish our speedy evaporation of this 'thing'. This illness. NC is the only way.
Do you feel concern about who is next in your life? I would hate to become this ugly to a really nice guy...who for perhaps whatever reason had to break up with me....hopefully I will find out what is driving this mess in me. and find some peace.
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Post by alpha24 on Jan 28, 2012 0:33:41 GMT -8
Hi leadbelly , for you i know its hard as you work with this guy , have you thought about changing jobs your skilled in what you do , you could find employment elsewhere , maybe you dont want to becuase you would then be out of reach of your poa even though you are trying to lnc or nc , the list you have given is so long , my own list for my own poa , is she played me full stop!!!! end of story , get out , i finished the relationship , the pain of withdrawl is hoorendous , i would not wish this in anyone to go through , but its a door whcih i must pass to a new me , as Love addicts we always look at our poa's amd go on and no and on and on about them , but the truth is its all about me , i am the unhealthy Love addict , its me that put myself is these unheathly relationships , i have to now be accountable to get the hell out , slaa is really good for me , this board os really good for me , aa is really good for me , yesterday i had a full day of resentment against my poa , what a waste of a day it was all futile it just ate away at me , she was where ever she was not a care in the world about me , i am the one who has to get well , my poa is on her own journey , leave her be concentrate on me , day 15 nc : )
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Post by bklynrn on Jan 28, 2012 4:22:33 GMT -8
Leadbelly....you were easily able to indentify what his faults are and why he isn't good for you. Great!!! Now, can you get into yourself just as easily?. Tell us what you like? When you're not at work and not thinking of your poa what are you thinking of for your future? Try and shift gears now...
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 28, 2012 4:39:53 GMT -8
LB, when you start to make a turnaround in recovery and in your way of thinking you use "I" and "me" statements. not because he make me, he does not make you do anything. You should say iam nc b/c I dont like the way he makes me feel, or I am not going to date married men, use I statements, and stop blaming him. It is not about him anymore, if you want to recover, you recover for yourself, and not for anyone else. get honest with yourself about what is really going on here.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 28, 2012 4:55:36 GMT -8
Carolyn,
Thank you as always. But I am trying to heal, get better, learn, fix, repair, give back, change....as fast as I can. If I recall, it has taken you years and I have been at this for 2 weeks now....so please be patient with me.
When you ask that I not say "he makes me feel" "and stop blaming him" statements because no one makes us feel anything and blaming another for our hardship means we are not taking responsibility.
"No one can make you feel anything" is a cliche now and I believe some or part of it's history goes back to Eleanor Roosevelt saying something similiar. I respect it, but I do not know many, and particularly here on the boards where it rings true in a way that we can just glide through our day-to-days unaffected. I don't mean to pull the addict card....but I do pretty much think that I am not an UNPENETRABLE WALL, and in fact everything my addict has done TO ME has brought me to my knees, which has driven me here. Perhaps I will 'get' this as you have so bluntly demanded, but not today. My healing might even look like; o that person is STARTING to make me feel a certain way and I know from experience that it's red flag stuff...but you have to say that with feeling and it's not with me yet.
And yes I do BLAME him. And I figure that blaming will stop when I am completely unhooked from him AND THEN I'll be able to see 'omg what was I thinking and why' - for now I am deeply entwined with him, kicking like hell to free myself, only to end up missing him until my heart breaks. And that only reveals another weakness (for now) that I blame myself for others behaviour. I see the more I point my finger at him, the more I SEE MYSELF. The mirror image for gawd sake of me...and keeping that blame game CLEAN is another feat I'm learning.
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 28, 2012 5:22:17 GMT -8
LB, it has taken me 7 months. But what iam pointing out to you is keeping the focus on your poa, keeps you from looking at yourself and what is really going on. that is why is it good to take one day at a time, you cant fix everything at once. If you dont want my suggestions, i will not offer my suggestions. But it is hard to look at oneself, but that is where recover begans.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 28, 2012 5:30:39 GMT -8
Hi Carolyn,
Please reread your post to me. I value YOUR truths very much and I sure get what you are trying to impart. But it feels pushy and a little cold....but I also sense it may be the crispness of your health after your own struggle. My tentacles of craziness are very much attached to this idiot right now And then again I am feeling devastated by my own humiliating behaviour and sensitive.
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 28, 2012 5:39:32 GMT -8
LB, Im not suggesting that you are not hurt, yes your hurt, but only you can heal your pain, and your HP. not your poa. We have too keep the focus on ourselves. And iam not talking down too you either, Im just trying to get you too look at this from a different angle. No one is judging you or talking down to you. But it does no good too keep blaming others for the way you feel and what is going on here. You are in control of your actions and attitude.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 28, 2012 5:44:31 GMT -8
Hey Alpha - well put and I do need that separation - it's him, but mostly it's me and I think that's what I'm getting some clarity about today with Carolyn's good word.
Hi Bklynrn - thank you for comments. I think I made a list of his faults to REMIND me over and over again why I need to STAY THE HECK AWAY...so that I don't ever forget how awful it's been otherwise come Tuesday I will start to find every reason under the sun to go into his office. It's funny how I've forgotten what I like or what I used to think about?? No idea, I guess this time when I come out of a life long habit with this guy I will gain even more ground on what the heck tripped my switch. I think not liking the life I have been living in and myself has been good grounds to vacate it all to readily for someone else who could cause so much grief really because he's not the one. He's just kept me busy in my head. Maybe this is what I am doing and have done in the past, use these POA's subconsciously to get away from my horrid thoughts of myself and life??? Maybe we all 'use' our POA's this way to get away from ourselves? Does this make sense? whew, so much work to do.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 28, 2012 6:13:44 GMT -8
oh wow wow wow....I just read a couple of posts from Lovely June and Brainhealth about addiction. I totally forgot what that means....in NC (withdrawal) it's so hard because we are looking for the next 'hit.' and the craving part of it is agonizing...funny nuts how I think I WANT AND DESIRE AND CRAVE my POA so badly because he feels so good.....but he feels good because because my chemistry is craving this 'high.'
THIS IS THE SAME, EXACTLY THE SAME AS SMOKING WHEN I QUIT. I don't mean to yell, but I think this is a substantial 'click' for me....he/smoking feels so good because it's addressing my craving...hence the confusion; I love smoking/I love my POA. hmmmmmmmmmm
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 28, 2012 6:17:00 GMT -8
Do you feel concern about who is next in your life? I would hate to become this ugly to a really nice guy...who for perhaps whatever reason had to break up with me....hopefully I will find out what is driving this mess in me. and find some peace. A lot of concern. I'm at a point now of knowing I have to break away, and so far holding up somewhat ok. 16 days since the last contact with her when she called me. 35 days since the last contact I initiated with her. But I'm on the edge. I don't know what scares me more, being alone or risking being hurt again.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 28, 2012 6:37:12 GMT -8
Hi robgke....o boy I hear you on that one; the scare. But did you see my last post...about the addiction part....that feels more like a beginning to me....understanding that beast.
And I am really trying to understand lonliness and what is lonliness...is it about separation from people in the same room? is it feeling we don't count, invisability? no friends to have a party? no invites? feeling irregular? Is this conditioning on what appearing 'regular' or 'normal' is? Love to hear what you and others think about that....because it is a very scary word.
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 28, 2012 6:57:01 GMT -8
LB, being alone and lonely is not a good feeling. When I got sober 2.5 yrs ago, i did not have any real friends, and the longer i hung around 12 step meeting rooms I began to have friends again, people who are like me and who are just living life one day at a time, and dealing with lifes normal up and downs. We all have different backgrounds, different religions, some have no religions, and different races, but that is the benefit of being part of a fellowship of men and women who share one common goal, to recover one day at a time. Recover is a "we" program, not a "I" program. We can do together, what we could never do alone. And if you are lonely and alone, it is your choice, because you can always find a meeting going on, and something going on in meetings. So you are not alone...we will love you until you can love yourself. This is a design for living that works. Challenge yourself, try something new & different, you might fool yourself, and you might enjoy the people in meetings. We are more alike than we are different. The bottomline is we all want to be loved and feel love, and to know someone is there for us, in our time of need. ;-)
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Post by brainhealth on Jan 28, 2012 12:31:22 GMT -8
lb,
You got it in one baby!!!!! Your (and our feelings to our poa's) feelings to your poa are primarily a chemical reaction in your brain, just like cigarettes, alcohol, drugs. A POA is a Drug. They should make it a licensed drug - only available on a prescription from your doctor. That is what we are talkin about here. It's a fracking DRUG LB!!!!!! It has nothing to do with love.
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Post by ramaplame on Jan 28, 2012 14:43:26 GMT -8
You got it, leadbelly. You're not well. You're sick.
I was sick, too.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 28, 2012 14:49:08 GMT -8
Hi ramaplame....sick eh? *sigh* that word just makes me reject myself even more....it's scary because I know how I've used it to describe creepy people and it makes me sad mostly, because coming back from sick will take a long time....like maybe until I die, and I don't know how long that will be....big drag to have to work on this nutse.
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 28, 2012 15:16:36 GMT -8
I'm sick to so don't be to hard on yourself, you see things now that you didn't before. Thats part of the path to RECOVERY. I think you'll do just fine, it'll take a bit but you'll do fine.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 28, 2012 15:56:12 GMT -8
ah gee thanks robgke....i was having another growth moment LOL and feeling sorry and frustrated for myself.
So I'm home on another Saturday night....what is everyone up to tonight??
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Post by brainhealth on Jan 28, 2012 16:49:55 GMT -8
LB,
I'm 53. In June I will be 54. I have been sick all my life. But, I am in recovery. Life is just great! Do I feel sh*t sometimes? Yes. Do I crave my expoa sometimes? God Darn yes! Do I think my life is ending? Before - definately as I couldnt live without my POA (or at least my sick mind used to tell me) , but now, my life is just on the crest of a wave. It's great! And that fragging cow (expoa) is not going to make me feel bad about myself - because I am beginning to know my innerchild. i am beginning to tell my inner child that he is loved. I am beginning to let my inner child know that he is very secure. That will eventually transcend upwards into me, the adult. When that happens, I will be fully in control. I can see and feel that I am getting there.
LB Are ytou a STAR TREK Fan? Well, in the next generation series where Captain Jean Luc Picard is the captain, the character who replaces Spock is an android (DATA) who spends his life trying to be human. Star Trek addicts have watched DATA struggle with becoming like humans, and identify with his struggle. On one episode, data is feeling down about his quest to become more like humans (imagine a computor being depressed!) and Captain Jean Luc Picard tells him the following to make him feel better:- " Data, humans are merely chemical beings, you are only different from us in that your brain is driven by circuits and electronics and not chemicals." Meaning, it's no big issue really being human, but don't we drink pints with you !
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