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Post by Havefaith on Jan 24, 2012 18:46:05 GMT -8
This is classic avoidant behavior -- the minute one takes a stand and backs off, is just when they declare that, indeed, they 'really do care'.
Uh huh.
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Post by sunflwrs4evr on Jan 24, 2012 19:18:27 GMT -8
leadbelly...You have alot of great insight....take time for yourself and be gentle with yourself....What i have learned so far is that....when i am in a toxic relationship...i am sicker than they are....and i believe that is what you are referring to...when u speak about acting and being crazy.....When you made this statement ... "He absolutely gave me the barest of bare minimum friendship - but I just wanted so badly to think I was special to someone, that I gave myself excuses". This is your absolute..please believe yourself and listen....its unacceptable to accept sstuffs...we deserve so much more.... and when you said..."I just wanted so badly to think I was special to someone....BE special to yourself first and once u are....you will never let anyone ever treat you like that again....we have to give it to ourselves first and foremost....keep posting....and sharing...and go to meetings.....get a sponsor....start working the steps.......and stay away from him....and if u are working together....just your best to find another job and get away as fast as u can...Sun
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 24, 2012 19:28:05 GMT -8
LB, Im going to make a few suggestions, and some of this you might not like, but try and keep a open mind. -He is married, so you do not owe him anything, he is totally unavailable to you. -This is not about him anymore, this is about you. -Im would ask him to please not put his hands on me anymore, set your boundaries. -You have too look at your part in this. -And getting angry and in a rage is not going to help you at all. I would set my boundary and ask him in a assertive way to please keep his distance. And stick to it. This situation will only get worse if it goes on. And of course he going to say he likes you, look what you gave up for him. You deserve better than this, so try and advise him what you are doing and go nc. You are not crazy, you are normal. you just wanted to feel loved. but this is not going to help you when you need to love yourself first. Write about this, and keep posting here, you are not alone.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 24, 2012 19:58:42 GMT -8
Thank you Sun and Carolyn....I really really really appreciate your support right now. How true it is when involved in a toxic relationship, one becomes crazyier than the head crazy...jeez....I do not want sstuffs...I know why I've been eating them; intimacy fears....but time to suck that up, because living this way is worse.
Yes Carolyn....that's all I see is my part!!! gawd...such wild and wooly mistakes I make....just so tragic sometimes. and no getting angry is foolish. However, I do feel the fool today for sure.
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 24, 2012 20:07:04 GMT -8
LB, It is not good to get to angry, dont lose your job over this. And your not a fool, even though you might feel that way. You were lonely and the opportunity came up, and you took it. But now you notice it was not the right thing to do, we can change our mind at anytime. So just take care of yourself first. You deserve better. Get a good nights sleep, and ask your HP to give you the answers, and you will get thru this, one second, minute, hour & day at a time. Also if you feel yourself getting to angry at work, come here and post, dont let him get to you like that, take the high road.
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Post by ramaplame on Jan 24, 2012 20:50:17 GMT -8
Wow. Looking at all of this must be difficult and you are strong to be starting your recovery. I agree with Carolyn's suggestions -- I think that was incredibly good advice and insight.
The only point I would like to make, I know you are "in it" right now, but from someone outside of it, you described a really unhealthy situation, a dramatic story, a toxic relationship, and at the end of describing it you said --
"I also told him maybe we could talk in March maybe."
Unless it is to talk about business and it can't be avoided -- I would avoid it.
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Post by Mb123 on Jan 24, 2012 23:23:25 GMT -8
It must be torture having to work with this man. I am so sorry....I wish you the best...keep posting and you are in my thoughts....every day is a struggle...but hopefully each day gets just a little bit easier for us
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 25, 2012 7:00:59 GMT -8
"that I don't know love AT ALL. That the way I am involved is what I know love to be. So it's waking up to all of this. It's wrong on so many levels. What I want the most in life just does not seem possible. And yes I have hurt a lot of people, but mostly myself. o boy, change is going to come....and I don't want comfortable change, where I make a few feeble attempts with life long sh$t and exclaim 'there now, i'm tired'. I want radical change where I actually have to work, and work hard for it. This is not the life I want...I'm sorry to sound so dismal, but it is near impossible for me to accept it, when my decisions have been made from self hatred." All I can say is WOW. Reading yours and everyone elses storys and struggles is such a huge eye opener at times when so much of what is said forces me to look so much closer at myself.
and no I don't think your crazy, just that you've had enough. Be strong, move forward it's all a proccess and some moments are going to be pretty rough.
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Post by ramaplame on Jan 25, 2012 9:30:09 GMT -8
"Can I tell you guys something....yes indeed there is an element of me being 'crazy', but on the other hand if I hold that DRAMATIC craziness and how disappointed I am with him, it kind of guarantees that he will leave me alone."
Obviously your "dramatic craziness" is not guaranteeing he will leave you alone. It's not working and it is only damaging your own sense of self.
Keep posting. You'll get through this.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 25, 2012 16:49:57 GMT -8
I am not usually a revengeful person, but he really is bothered by the 'gut' he is getting, and so I wish for him that his 'gut' just keeps on growing and growing and growing.
Is my best revenge, like seriously, about living my best life very very well?? Why is that considered revenge? Because I'll do it if it bothers him....see I can't stand him right now.
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Post by ramaplame on Jan 25, 2012 17:40:30 GMT -8
Wow. This is a lot to process. I hope you are being very kind to yourself tonight!
It was very healthy that you told him no the second he touched you. I hope he gets the message, otherwise you might want to remind him that it is illegal.
I know you will want to live your best life for you once you start to heal. Have you thought about what steps might help you begin to heal? You have set boundaries -- that's great. Have you thought about going to a step program or maybe starting the steps on this forum? In my experience they were the way I began to get well.
Stay strong. Love yourself.
Keep posting!
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 26, 2012 4:58:43 GMT -8
I am taking today off. I have called in sick. He won't be in until Tuesday. So this gives me a total of 5 days to get things more solid and on track, so I can stay steady in my resolve of NC.
You know, I don't want this guy as my friend. I've been thinking about this, and he will notice I am gone in the sense that I will not be providing the attention or focus I used to lavish on him nor the sex act itself anymore. And he has made it clear that he too wants to be a better husband and that being my friend is important him. I don't care. I'm starting to recognize what a good friend might or might not do and this is not it...he is not it. I am a changed person because of him, so at least I KNOW I CAN CHANGE, but the change in me has never ever felt good and my behavior has been less than good.
I also cannot understand how disrespectful and angry - like get the hel$ out of my way, I have become to others??? when I am upset or rather had been upset with my POA. And when I have been especially upset with him...nothing and I mean nothing else matters. I can only say that when that feeling is upon me, it feels like it has deep, deep history.
I always believed, like truly believed that I had a sexual addiction too, but I don't think that so much...I know that when I am with a poisinous person, I start acting that way. It's one of the only things I think I have to offer....I'm going to drop that naive act.
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 26, 2012 5:16:23 GMT -8
I think maybe the disrespect and anger we show others comes from the anger were feeling towards ourselves. It's hard when your emotionally hurting on the inside to not project that onto anyone that gets in our way, simply because it's easier to take it out on them then it is to fix and heal what is tearing us apart about ourselves.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 26, 2012 5:22:57 GMT -8
thank you robgke, that is a good answer....i've just been awful, and so irritable...like gawd, this behavior gives me an even lower opinion of myself....like 'look at how horrible you are, no wonder you have no friends'....i don't need to make amends to any one person per se, but hel$ people are keeping away from me that's for sure. And I am my own author in this.
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 26, 2012 5:36:23 GMT -8
I can be the same way in a sense. I don't show anger so much as avoidance. For me it's I'm feeling low about myself, frustrated that I can't make myself see the light so to speak and fix the things I hate about me so I withdraw from those around me, even if I'm around friends it's like I'm not really there. And in a sense I'm not. Everyones going to act a little different but from reading everyones situations the roots of it all start from similar sources.
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 26, 2012 5:49:06 GMT -8
LB, If you work the steps or go to meetings you will get to the causes & conditions as to why these things keep happening. Also we do project onto others, what we are feeling on the inside of us. If we are irritable & discontent, we will let everyone know this. And it really does not matter how your poa feels at this point, your recovery starts with you. all the finger pointing, and who is right or wrong, none of this matters in the long run, would you rather be happy? or right? And making an amends does not come until you have done a thorough 4th step, b/c until then you really dont know what your making an amends for. in my opinion i do not believe you can have a healthy friendship with someone that you have been sexually with, especially if it did not end well, there is too much emotionally stuff going on. So try and just accept it for what it was, and dont beat yourself up about it. What do you really want from this guy? something is still causing you alot of anger? If you are wanting him to validate your hurt and pain, that will probably never happen. He is a man, and he got what he wanted, this is how it is. And it hurts like hell, but you have no control over people places or things, you only have control over yourself, and how you react to it. Hang in there, write about all of this. Look under the home tab under steps and find the step inventory, and write all of this out on paper. See what you find out, and you will see where all the pain & anger is coming from.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 26, 2012 6:39:06 GMT -8
Powerful post Carolyn. One of your finest...not that this is American Idol.
What do I really want from this guy is a brilliant question. Initially I wanted him to be the 'one', to sort of break the mold from my past, or to at least love me passionately and so I wrapped a lot, and I mean a lot of fantasy around him....we were always speaking to one another BUT ONLY IN MY HEAD. What is that? Severe lonliness?
What I want from him now is to leave me alone. With rose coloured glasses off, he is suddenly not as attractive....very, very selfish, angry, just self-obsessed...the heart the size of a pea. If I get lazy I will do 'things' where I work to reignite this.
You are right Carolyn....you can't build a relationship when you have led it by sex. I don't see much by way of attraction now. It's my own hole in my soul that needs to stop breathing in this stream of pain from mean people, thinking that it is love. It is making me mean. And I know better.
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 26, 2012 7:23:50 GMT -8
LB, when the fantasy is all in your head, it is what they call unrequited love. You may feel like it is going in one direction, when the reality is that this is the only place it is going on, is in your head. This stinks but this is the truth. Read up on unrequited love. I know for me i just could not get it my thick skull that this man had no idea what he was losing, how naive could he be? Im smart, caring, compassion, sexual, sensual, just everything a man would want "I" thought. But you know what? He was not wanting all of this, he's is a sex addict/avoidant/narcissitic man. So when we are unhealthy, we attract unhealthy people. But all along he wanted a "play toy"...and Iam not a toy, it was never about me as a person, it was always about him, and what he could get from me. I asked a friend one time, why does he keep treating me this way? my friend told me, because i let him. duh...that is the truth, we show people how to treat us. So read as much as you can, and as you continue on your road to recovery, more will be revealed. Live and Let Live.
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Post by Havefaith on Jan 26, 2012 9:45:17 GMT -8
paisley -- oh, so true! As LA's we rehash the same issues over and over and over again. It gets OLD and people stop listening to us as their eyes glaze over and they start to dread hearing our sob stories. I know that lately, to be rigorously honest, it's been very difficult for me to read some of the messages that people post here; some go on and on, in excruciating detail, as to the latest happenings with their POA's. What purpose does it serve to recall the minutia and then not do anything about recovery?
HaveFaith
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Post by ramaplame on Jan 26, 2012 10:01:40 GMT -8
I agree with Paisley.
When I was going through something very similar to your situation, I was acting like a lunatic because I was a lunatic. This addiction makes me crazy. My behaviors are irrational but I convince myself they are rational. I convince myself that I am acting this way because so-and-so was mean to me and uncaring. But it is me. It is my problem. I picked the guy, I stayed with the guy, I let the guy use me, I was part of a triangle -- it was me. I had to look at me -- not my relationship with my poa or his actions and behaviors and issues. I had to sever that relationship using NC to study my illness and begin my road to recovery. This illness makes me sick. Sick in my head.
It seems like you are in real pain here. You don't seem to feel like you have friends or are lovable... the list goes on. I agree with Paisley when she says, "Time to get a life... it's a core concept of recovery." There is a treatment for this kind of sickness. And when I started doing the steps, I started to heal.
You are the only one who can start the recovery process. You have five days to think about your recovery. If it were me, I would start step one right away.
Good luck! Keep posting.
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Post by Loving My Life on Jan 26, 2012 11:26:39 GMT -8
I agree that sometimes we stay focused on the problem to much, but we have to talk these thing out and the longer we talk about we will have a turnaround and we will start talking about the solution. We need to not forget how bad we were hurting when we first came into recovery. I still catch myself getting impatient with people, but recovery is different for everyone, sometimes quickly and sometimes slowly. you cant force recovery on anyone, we can only offer our experience, strength, and hope to others who are still suffering. it takes what it takes.
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 26, 2012 14:24:35 GMT -8
Hi guys....beautiful wisdom from all and I am really grateful to get your feedback. It helps tremendously as a mirror, because I am blind to myself. And full of BS.
Paisley - if I am serious about this, and in ernest I want to change, then I have to stop my BS, and it almost feels like I'm doing faux NC...like I lay down these NO'S AND DONT'S and kind of background hope that he breaks through it and becomes my knight. I am 2 people, one who is smart, funny, looks similar to Sandra Bullock, kind and two, who is broken, clingy, whiny, angry if I don't get my way....like how is that loveable?..I almost feel sorry for my POA, he doesn't know (until now) that this was going on....he is just a guy who manipulated me for fooling around with and I'm coming out crazy, because I can't stand being used any more - I'm awake to it now. No matter how healthy I get when someone says "you don't get it" or "you're crazy" and mean it....I will always have resentment, past or no past, it's just not the sort of thing to say to someone who is in pain.
Growing up my Dad hit me a lot or threatened to hit me "into the middle of next week"....he never got or understood me...always correcting and giving me warnings (always dismal) about life. Every single one of my boyfriends, didn't ever adore me, they just made me feel horrid in the end anyway and 'didn't get me'....and were sooooo not available.....but I would just keep trying to GET them to love me so that I could feel it, and that I was fabulous enough to be loved by someone who I had chosen to do this naive dance with. I just figured if they could someonhow love my basic goodness I could, at last feel I was something, that I was good and a great, great person. But I arranged this subconsciously. All along. Jeez, I even feel madly in love with a gay guy...my life coach says I play it safe that way due to intimacy issue fears.
I did all this. All of it. This is my masterpiece. And when it's suggested that I begin to love myself, it revolts me....so that would indicate the perfect place to start.
You're right; I need to live in the solution....and any woman knows how to end things soundly...there's no mystery there.
So I've had a good day today, but that's because I'm not around this idiot. When I see him on Tuesday and onward....I'm pretty sure he will come at me wanting to be 'friends' or do 'friendship' type things toward me and expect my approval, and when I don't return it he will get angry..... I will need to take it 1 second at a time. He is not a good friend at all even though he insists.
In mid December I quit smoking and slowed down on caffeine greatly....in January I joined a gym and am going and dumped this latest POA....bring it February.
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Post by ramaplame on Jan 26, 2012 15:33:59 GMT -8
leadbelly it is AWESOME that you are knuckling down and getting to work on yourself. I know how difficult it is. I can't wait to hear more about your journey so please keep posting. You are doing great. It's tough to face yourself -- and if you've never done it, it feels laughable to try to "love yourself." But I promise you -- it's possible. You can do this!
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 26, 2012 17:38:05 GMT -8
Thank you ramaplame. Thank you for your encouragement for sure.
This evening when it's Lonely O'Clock LOL is when I have conversations out loud (crazy) and start thinking....'gee, why can't he send me an email or call me just to hear my voice'....BECAUSE...he's not on the same sick track that I am....he doesn't feel this way about me....so it's not in his head, and that is not his fault. So I put these demands over into someone else's head and want them to think the same way as I do, but towards me. And I feel pain over this ficticious scenario. Whacko
What I am seeing loud and clear, is how I hurt myself. Wanting something imaginary. How I do the setup for disaster concerning other people. Even women friends. Now what to do with this information??? I'm having a moment of growth :-)
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 26, 2012 18:56:29 GMT -8
"a moment of growth"... I like that
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Post by leadbelly on Jan 27, 2012 3:26:39 GMT -8
Woke up this morning and just wish everything would go away. I really really don't think much of myself as I was laying there in bed. Beliefs really move behaviours.
Right on down the line, to how I always think people are doing me a favour by liking me, how I always get into arguments with those close to me and getting so angry with them that I defriend them...some have needed to go....but others I'm not sure. I know how great arguments and conflict can be....the results are grounds to bringing the relationship closer if it's been healthy. Allowing. Allowing myself to be used. My POA is not a bad person, he just saw opportunity in that area...but he is manipulative and very selfcentered....but he sees me that way too....so it's hard to know....what I do know is that he does not have my best interests in his heart. And actually, even if I can't find the words today, my gut tells me and has been telling me to stay away all along, because I know my interactions with him are not true...I felt like I was lying to him alot about how great he was, how smart, and to calm down when he was in a rage about how he believed someone was dissing him...and that yes he was probably right, this actually was happening blahblahblah but you're the bigger man blahblahblah....I am pretending to agree....I am pretending. I am again accepting tiny little pieces of raw meat for my hunger, my starvation. And I am really really bossy in demanding things to be done how I want them. Not so loveable is it?
I am not going into work again today....I need this time away to just 'be' without any stress....my supervisor micro manages me and i just don't feel in the mood.
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Post by bklynrn on Jan 27, 2012 4:22:26 GMT -8
Hi Leadbelly...I hear that pain, frustration and even depair coming from you....I read you other post too but didn't respond to it. Seriously, try your best to NOT even attempt to figure him or anyone else out. That will be the best tool to have for now. Over analyzing these situations is exhausting work...mentally draining. Try your best to ignore him and focus on YOU....this is about YOU. Not him. Not anyone else. Give yourself some needed love and attention today
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robgke
Junior Member
Posts: 89
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Post by robgke on Jan 27, 2012 4:57:57 GMT -8
I think to expand on what bklynrn just said, we will never really be able to figure out or understand our poa until after we have first figured out and better understand ourselves. Only after we figure out what drives us, will we be able to figure out that what drives someone else isn't all that important.
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Post by bklynrn on Jan 27, 2012 6:50:06 GMT -8
@ robgke...yep, you're 100% right....
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Post by Havefaith on Jan 27, 2012 6:54:22 GMT -8
One of the goals my SLAA group emphasizes is that we must take care of ourselves first before involving ourselves with others. Makes a whole lot of sense, and I didn't really embrace or understand the importance of that until I really understood what recovery really means, which for me, means seeking out truth.
In others words, if I don't face truth and retool myself, I will continue to view the world (and the actions of others) through the skewed, false lens of addiction -- and I stay hopelessly stuck in a swirling sea of addiction, obsession and poor choices/decisions.
I will NOT achieve a life of integrity and Dignity of Self if I do not face truth. Period. Amen.
HaveFaith
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